Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Without Health Issues.

[asal]

One of the 'selling points' some breeders use is the "there's none of that in my lines." Just cause they say it doesn't make it true...

As I learnt the hard way. It wasn't there because they hadn't looked. Once they started dropping dead it was a bit late!

my vet was given a litter of cavalier x beagle puppies to rehome. only a few months later one of the litter had syringamyelia dignosed, very distressed and in pain puppy and was put down.

so hybrid vigor isnt the be all and end all as the garden knome has been telling us. he also told me its being found in ALL small dogs NOT just cav's, Its just that the Cav's have been the hot topic.

has had me wondering if it may be in beagles as well, how many of you are aware thats it is also in humans?

last I looked no ones been breeding for small heads in the homo sapien's. So just what is its mode of inheritance really needs a lot more research along with just how widespread it is across not just dog breeds either.

Somehow labeling the parents of an affected child as unethical would be hard to get the label to stick as easily as it is to the dog fraternity.

Edited July 24, 2012 by asal

[asal]

As for the OP's question, yes they sure are around.

no problems with mine, well except for the one the neighbour ran over.

sis now has her second pair and they are over 12 months old and she thinks they are awesome, their breeder had heaps of old dogs, descended from the same family as the first two.

can i mention the kennel name?

Its Pribar, really nice lady

[dogsaremyworld]

I know quite a few folk who sell on main register not willy nilly but they certainly do to the right homes as do I

They certainly arent villified as you have depicted ( though I understand you are speaking from your own experience)

Would I put one out on main to a non show home yes but it would have to be to a home where a dog sport of some sort was being done I wouldnt sell on main just for someone to breed with

I also wouldnt sell on main to someone who didnt believe in my same ideologies why would I .

I agree, you should not sell to someone just for breeding, or someone who did not believe in the same things as you. But we have been showing now for over 39 years - not just with Cavaliers, with great success at local, interstate and Royal shows. Despite the fact that all the Cavaliers I have owned have eventually turned out sick or suffering from great genetic faults such as patella's I have managed to title 3 of them before they sucumbed to thier diseases. I have never asked for a dog primarily for breeding, but rather to put in the show ring first, and eventually breed with them, IF they turned out to be breeding quality. When approaching the 'top' kennels I have offered to co-own the dog, sign any contract they care to offer me, and even only breed with thier permission regarding what dog and when, etc, etc. I have never been blacklisted, pissed anyone off, am great friends with many in the show world, done ANYTHING dodgy - in fact it would be the opposite. I have had 8 Cavaliers from 6 different breeders that were sold to me on main register, show potential. Because of thier faults (patellas, heart murmurs, etc) I have not bred in my 15 years. Less scrupulous people would of, and if i had a dollar for each time I had been told to 'take my chances' I would be a millionaire! I have been promised throughout those years HUNDREDS of puppies from great bloodlines. I get my hopes up, only to have them dashed. Something ALWAYS happens. Not with dogs, but always with bitches. i understand why, but it is still very frustrating. I WILL NOT breed from crap, unhealthy dogs, or dogs who do not meet my strict requirements, and that has meant I have had nothing to breed from, so really I am NOT a breeder, but just a showie with a big dream.

[asal]

I know quite a few folk who sell on main register not willy nilly but they certainly do to the right homes as do I

They certainly arent villified as you have depicted ( though I understand you are speaking from your own experience)

Would I put one out on main to a non show home yes but it would have to be to a home where a dog sport of some sort was being done I wouldnt sell on main just for someone to breed with

I also wouldnt sell on main to someone who didnt believe in my same ideologies why would I .

I agree, you should not sell to someone just for breeding, or someone who did not believe in the same things as you. But we have been showing now for over 39 years - not just with Cavaliers, with great success at local, interstate and Royal shows. Despite the fact that all the Cavaliers I have owned have eventually turned out sick or suffering from great genetic faults such as patella's I have managed to title 3 of them before they sucumbed to thier diseases. I have never asked for a dog primarily for breeding, but rather to put in the show ring first, and eventually breed with them, IF they turned out to be breeding quality. When approaching the 'top' kennels I have offered to co-own the dog, sign any contract they care to offer me, and even only breed with thier permission regarding what dog and when, etc, etc. I have never been blacklisted, pissed anyone off, am great friends with many in the show world, done ANYTHING dodgy - in fact it would be the opposite. I have had 8 Cavaliers from 6 different breeders that were sold to me on main register, show potential. Because of thier faults (patellas, heart murmurs, etc) I have not bred in my 15 years. Less scrupulous people would of, and if i had a dollar for each time I had been told to 'take my chances' I would be a millionaire! I have been promised throughout those years HUNDREDS of puppies from great bloodlines. I get my hopes up, only to have them dashed. Something ALWAYS happens. Not with dogs, but always with bitches. i understand why, but it is still very frustrating. I WILL NOT breed from crap, unhealthy dogs, or dogs who do not meet my strict requirements, and that has meant I have had nothing to breed from, so really I am NOT a breeder, but just a showie with a big dream.

from my limited experience obviously because the show scene does zilch for me.

all the people i have met want their dog as a pet. as healthy a pet as possible. I know when i whet shopping for my sister it took me 6 months to find a breeder who ticked the boxes i had written up as must haves. you were incredibly unlucky we were and are very happy with ours.

i only know three who actually went on to become breeders, n ive had as i said chihuahua's since 78 i think I have met a few hundred, if not more, happy to be pet owners. my guessamate as to the percentage to end up actually breeding would be something less than 1 in a hundred.

so all these others seem to hve met racing to become breeders I have missed meeting.

Edited July 24, 2012 by asal

[LizT]

One of the 'selling points' some breeders use is the "there's none of that in my lines." Just cause they say it doesn't make it true...

As I learnt the hard way. It wasn't there because they hadn't looked. Once they started dropping dead it was a bit late!

my vet was given a litter of cavalier x beagle puppies to rehome. only a few months later one of the litter had syringamyelia dignosed, very distressed and in pain puppy and was put down.

so hybrid vigor isnt the be all and end all as the garden knome has been telling us. he also told me its being found in ALL small dogs NOT just cav's, Its just that the Cav's have been the hot topic.

has had me wondering if it may be in beagles as well, how many of you are aware thats it is also in humans?

last I looked no ones been breeding for small heads in the homo sapien's. So just what is its mode of inheritance really needs a lot more research along with just how widespread it is across not just dog breeds either.

Somehow labeling the parents of an affected child as unethical would be hard to get the label to stick as easily as it is to the dog fraternity.

Actually from what I have been able to determine skull size has very little to do with it. SO much still to be learnt.

Interestingly, in my research I have found that Beagles are known to also be affected by Mitral Valve Disease. The "Beaglier" dosn't sound like a 'smart' idea at all.

[LizT]

An intersting conversation last night.

New potential puppy buyers called in see the little one. During discussions we talked about MVD.

"Oh yes, I know about MVD, our mums last dog died of MVD. She started coughing, needed medication or a while, then got bad and was given her wings at age 12."

We talked some more about it. Hmmm.."I thought this was your first Cavalier" I said.

"Yes, it is, mums dog was a Yorkshire Terrier".

[Jed]

Interesting dogsaremyworld. When I started in cavaliers, I had a nice dog, successful in the ring. I approached a breeder who had nice stock, compatible with my dog's breeding, for a girl to show and breed with. I had bred titled dogs in a couple of other breeds over the years, I showed the breeder a photo of the dog, spoke of my previous experiences, gave a few references.

All was good, we discussed the bloodlines of the girl .... and then --- some very lovely show person who did not know me, had never seen my dogs or visited my property told that breeder I was a puppy farmer. So, the breeder, and the puppy disappeared into the mist.

It is very difficult to be a puppy farmer with 4 dogs!!

I was so ticked off about that I never approached another breeder for a bitch.

I used the 2 second rate bitches I had who were healthy as horses, and upgraded the quality I had via the dogs.

It was a shame the dog didn't have a girl up to his quality - he was mostly Homerbrent, a well conformed dog, no health problems, and a tempersament to die for -- and he got his title at "good" shows - won his class 3 times at the Royal. I always grieved that he was "wasted".

The dogs are not the quality I would like them to be, but they are all as healthy as can be. :laugh:

So, really, maybe that was all for the best!

Like you, I find it disheartening - because the dogs are still not up to speed, and now I am so concerned about health, I will not send any of them out.

I used to breed cockers, so I went back to breeding them because I am not altogether happy with the quality of the Cavs. At least with cockers, I didn't have to begin at the bottom!

I love to see quality dogs and I do love the cavs, but I get heaps of pleasure from the better quality dogs. The exciting challenge for me is to breed good pups, and to try to eradicate some of the faults in the parents. It seems quite non productive to me to breed for years and not have the quality you would like to breed (for Cavalier afficiondios - that would be something like Ch Maibee Make Believe or Ch Wandris Entertainer )

The cocker I bred has won quite a few groups as a pup, and I hope to show her again. A boxer that I bred is having her 4th go at winning her class at the Royal - she has done it 3 times from 3 entries, so 4 would be good. She hasn't cracked a Royal BCC yet, but we hope!! And I don't breed all that many, as the dogs are house dogs. And the cavs are letting the side down a bit. But at least I am not taking them to the vet every 10 minutes or cringing if owners of my pups ring up. They usually ring up to say Charlie is 10 now, they want another one just like him, which is fine. :)

LizT, I think the reason the Cavaliers are pilloried for health problems is because the Cavalier breeders world wide endeavoured to eliminate the health problems in the breed, and consequently, most people know about health issues, where problems in other breeds were not as well publicised.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Jed

[Salukifan]

Blackdogs can you PLEASE change the title of this thread to reflect the correct breed name?

I find it grating to have to look at the current one.

[Blackdogs]

Blackdogs can you PLEASE change the title of this thread to reflect the correct breed name?

I find it grating to have to look at the current one.

:laugh:

Done.

[asal]

Ho well

Ive made the decision no more a breeder.

just gave away my two about to whelp girls to a friend. This was last staw what happend this week.

still cant believe it. had the rspca around. some hero of the abused reported me for transporting my dogs 'crammed' in "boxes" in the back of my station waggon and added they looked like they lived in them as well?

since when were fully legal carry crates "boxes" for starters.

now you can be reported for not having your dogs safely contained during transport and just as legitamatly reported for 'cramming' them into "boxes"?

no complaints about the lady inspector . really nice person, but cant take or cope with "the guilty until proven innocent" mentallity that is the general public if you breed, any more.

Some potential puppy buyers just are not to be belived are for real. but they are.

as one lady asked me "how can you prostitute your fur baby like this?"

when I asked her what are you talking about she said "would you sell your grandchild? this is no different?"

like what the?

she wanted the puppy, she was prepared to buy the puppy, yet she despised me because, to her eyes, I was no better than a prostitute if I could part with the puppy?

its weird.

Today if you dont keep every puppy you breed a growing percentage out there despise you and report you for any thing, even transporting puppies or parents can get you reported.

considering the stringy nightmare has taught me that it doesnt matter that your dog has nothing wrong with it is going to protect either your dog from dozens of unnecessary testing and resulting income (you HAVE TO PAY) EVEN when the testing proves he/she is healthy all costs are at your expense. as the head of the dept of agriculture to whom the rspca is accountable to report their activities for the year.

assured me, my dog had now had a complete work up .

so this complaint could easily end up with a repeat of the stringy episode if the inspector is another donnelly to decide to "form the opinion" such tests are necessarily in the "best interests"

Nope

end of the line for me, cant cope risking another being punished for being mine.