Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Without Health Issues.

[cowanbree]

I don't think many breeders could claim to have never had any genetic issues. I am a sheltie breeder and in my 25plus years in the breed I have encountered many genetic issues in my breed, hip, eyes, elbow, heart issues, thyroid issues. In saying that my breed is considered to be a generally healthy breed that on average lives until 14-16yrs. No breed is perfect, and it is not about what issues a breeder has had but rather how they have dealt with it.

[AussieDog]

My sister has a pure bred Cavalier from a registered breeder - i think the breeder may actually even be on DOL (not sure though).

He was the runt of the litter so a lot smaller than your normal Cavalier - he came with a hernia, something wrong with his testicle, he had his ear canal operated on due to very smelly and infected ears, and his eyes are now shot.

The family love him to bits but he has been a very expensive little doggie.

[HollyMilo]

My mother would one day like a Cavalier Kind Charles Spaniel, however, I have reservations about this due to the high propensity for health issues within the breed.

Is it possible to find a breeder who breeds Cavaliers without health issues or is the breed just too far gone to even bother?

Blackdogs it is possible to find a breeder who breeds healthy cavaliers but you will never have a 100% guarantee that the dog will never have health problems. I would suggest you find a breeder who health tests, someone who is willing to discuss the health issues of the cavalier with you and not just dismiss it with "not in my lines". See how you feel after talking to some breeders and hearing what they have to say.

If your mum is looking for a lively, loving, affectionate, snuggly little dog then she won't go wrong with a cav. :)

If I could get one breeder to respond that none of the dogs they've ever bred have suffered from genetic health issues I would find that comforting.

That's a big ask. You'll probably find a breeder somewhere who says that, but have they really had every single pup they've ever bred tested throughout it's life to be sure they've never bred a dog with genetic health issues? I would very much doubt it.

[espinay2]

If I could get one breeder to respond that none of the dogs they've ever bred have suffered from genetic health issues I would find that comforting.

NO responsible breeder of ANY BREED is EVER going to tell you that, as frankly genetics can be a crap shoot and while you may try with all your might to breed the healthiest dogs in the world, and may pretty much succeed, genetics is ALWAYS there to give you the occasional bite on the bum. A responsible breeder knows that and will NOT make general claims like this. The ony ones likely to tell you their dogs are 100% free of genetic issues are those that either have their head in the sand and/or don't know enough to know better. IT is the ones that tell you what they are doing to LESSEN the chances of known genetic issues in their dogs, and explain how they have been going openly and objectively that I would be looking to. IMO those that are aware of the issues in their lines, and are dealing with it, are the ones I would be looking to. NOT the ones that are claiming '100% healthy' dogs.

Edited July 18, 2012 by espinay2

[Zug Zug]

They are such a beautiful breed, but I too have spoken with a former breeder who ended up walking away from the breed because she said it was so hard to avoid all the health issues, and she didn't want to be responsible for breeding unhealthy puppies.

She is someone who would apply a very high standard of expectations I think, but at the same time it was a decision that had obviously saddened her.

It is a question of degree I suppose, and of how much risk you are willing to accept. I have a standard poodle. As a breed, there are some issues. But it is the breed I love so I checked around as much as I could, and got my puppy from a reputable breeder.

There is always a level of risk involved. Picking the breed that suits you is also very important.

[Salukifan]

I think what needs to be remembered is that CKCS are an immensely popular breed.

You can buy them in pet shops, from the Trading Post, from 'breeders' who'll mate any male to any female and won't health test a single animal.

Then they are over fed and under exercised by a lot of owners. I think it's a tragedy that such a clever, active little spaniel gets turned into an obese couch potato by so many people.

You want to see a good CKCS? Go to an agility trial. I know CKCS competitors who get told constantly their dogs "are nothing like my nanna's Cav".

There is a local breeder/agility competitor of CKCS here and I'd have one of her dogs like a shot. She also puts show titles on them.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[LizT]

Oh my goodness! My Lucy is only 9 months old but hasn't had any of the above mentioned issues (touch wood)

I think a lot of them are issues that all breeds can have.

Buying from a reputable breeder will ensure that the dog has the healthiest & longest life possible

Absolutely. I'm not trying to say a CKCS can't be healthy & sound. Seeking out the finest of breeders is certainly my recommendation when anyone asks me about this breed. I think much of the woe I see is the result of BYB and profit driven breeders.

Arcane you are right in sofar as statistics cannot tell you which dogs came from breeders that health tested and increased the odds of a sound animal as opposed to a BYB's/unregistered breeder or even if they are 'slightly' crossbred but closely resembling a Cavlier King Charles Spaniel.

Even Health Testing is not a guarantee but as we do more and more it certainly throws the odds back in the dogs favour.

Certainly the life expectancy of this small dog is not what it should be...averaging out to approximately 9 years. Many have a healthy happy life well beyond that.

I have only been involved with the breed for 5 years, have done much research before purchasing my first Cavalier. But have learnt so much and will continue to do so for the duration of my involvement with this most beguiling of creatures. I do know indeed that this is a breed that will break your heart. But I have had my heart broken with many a dog of various breeds and combinations unknown when it became sick or old and it was time to say goodbye. Every living creature has the possibility of disease, sickness and misery in it's life. There are no guarantees in life.

Yes, MTV being the biggest issue for breeders of course. Very difficult problem to try to eradicate. It does not have any genetic DNA markers with which to exclude stock from breeding. Yes, we can health test regularly and breed from clear parents but a dog or bitch that is heart clear at 3 or 5 years of age may not be at 6 years of age. What to do? You can't leave a bitch until she is elderly to breed from obviously, a pup may be born heart clear and remain so all of his life whereas he may have had litter siblings that developed murmurs early in life.

Yes, Cavaliers have health issues but I believe they are well worth fighting for.

[LizT]

My sister has a pure bred Cavalier from a registered breeder - i think the breeder may actually even be on DOL (not sure though).

He was the runt of the litter so a lot smaller than your normal Cavalier - he came with a hernia, something wrong with his testicle, he had his ear canal operated on due to very smelly and infected ears, and his eyes are now shot.The family love him to bits but he has been a very expensive little doggie.

My son was born with an umbilical hernia. They are hardly life threatening. His self corrected, but many can be repaired easily in the case of dogs can be done when being desexed.

A friend has only one testicle, the other became cancerous and had to be removed.

Both my German Shepherd and my Burmese cat both had one retained testicle that needed surgery beyond normal castration to remove.

Another friends son has severe ear infections and requires gromets. Sad to say regular cleaning of your friends Cavaliers ears would have spared him "smelly ear infections".

My point is this can happen to ANY mammal.

Edited July 18, 2012 by LizT

[Salukifan]

Popularity is the curse of ANY breed.

You'll never see worse specimens of dogs that when the 'breed for profit' brigade latch onto a new fad. The SBT is the latest example. It's hard to reconcile what you can buy from the Trading Post as the same breed as a decently bred dog. They're shite, they have temperament, health and conformation issues and a lot of buyers are getting gipped and/or not doing right by the breed and its reputation is suffering as a result.

Many breeds have survived the process and I'm sure the CKCS will be no different.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[oakway]

I should clarify I do like CKCS. As stated, a well bred sound healthy well groomed one is a sight to behold & a pleasure to know. I have no doubt that many of the ones I groom are bought from less than reputable sources. (like the 3kg one that was bought from a pet shop )

And THERE lies the problem. People decide they want a Cavalier, but will not invest in the general cost of adopting a pedigree, well bred dog. Thus, they are bought cheaply from backyard breeders and pet shops where dogs where the dogs are bred and bred, regardless of the health issues. The new owners then decide they want to have 'just one litter', and the cycle of backyard breeders and poorly bred dogs with high health issues continues

Honestly, it's about education. A repoutable breeder will charge anywhere from $600 - $1000 for a well bred, health tested dog. These costs purely reflect the money invested into breeding and health testing for strong, healthy lines.....

I'll get off of my soapbox now!

It appears to me that you have hit the nail right on the head.

So many CKCS being purchased from puppy farmers and back yard breeders may be the cause of so many unhealthy ones.

People do your homework and only purchase from reliable, ethical registered breeders that health test all stock.

[Sunnyflower]

I don't understand why people get offended when questions like the OP's question are asked. I don't know much about CKCS, beyond having met lots of pets etc, and my impression has also been that they are prone to quite a few health problems. That impression may be wrong, but to be "offended" or respond in such a sarcastic manner, as in "you've got to be KIDDING, are you SERIOUSLY even asking that question!" is counter-productive.

By all means, people with breed experience and who know and own or breed healthy dogs should correct that assumption if it's incorrect, but to flat out deny that it's the case seems quite ridiculous to me. Most breeds are associated with some kind of health problem, and of course, some a prone to more problems than others. It doesn't mean you can't get a healthy specimen and find a good breeder who endeavours to eliminate those problems in the breed. I'm sure that many people's bad experiencse are through BYB dogs or irresponsibly bred dogs- but those are still experiences, and they colour people's understanding. Let's at least acknowledge that.

I personally know a couple of owners who have owned CKCS before, and have also said that they would not get another one in the future due to having lost a dog/s prematurely. To deny that that's the case is a bit ridiculous. It's not something confined to that breed - I know people who have owned Irish Wolfhounds and Great Danes who love hte breed but have said that they couldn't own another, as they couldn't deal wtih the short lifespan. It's just.. a fact.

Took the words right out of my mouth and said it better then I ever could.

I'm sure Arcane wasn't making these stories up just to entertain everyone, that is her experience, believe it or not, I don't know why people would take it personally. She could probably tell you a host of other breeds with problems but that wouldn't fit in with the current discussion.

There was recently someone wanting to get a puppy here too but unsure whether to get another CKCS as the pup they previously haAd passed away far too young of a disease and they didn't want to risk getting another pup and it happen again, even though it were their dream breed.

Donatella this person you speak of is myself & please ensure you finish off the entire story by stating it was decided I WILL be getting another Cavalier! Yes I had a terrible experience with SM but I was a naive puppy buyer in 2008 & Oscar was poorly bred. Due to my experience with Oscar & love of the breed I am wanting to get more involved in the breed! The chances of actually getting SM is that of being struck by lightening, apparently we were a hit but I would get Oscar all over again even knowing he had SM because he was an amazing little dog.

With the help of some wonderful experienced Cavalier breeders I will get another Cav from reputable lines & run the same health gauntlet I do with my Ridgeback that comes from healthy lines!

People who love Cavaliers get offended because everyone always jump on the bandwagon of attacking the Cavalier about it's apparent health problems in every pup & it's a rare one that's actually healthy! It's the same thing every few months on here, someone ill informed thinks they're an expert & starts a thread about it!

[smisch]

My sister has a pure bred Cavalier from a registered breeder - i think the breeder may actually even be on DOL (not sure though).

He was the runt of the litter so a lot smaller than your normal Cavalier - he came with a hernia, something wrong with his testicle, he had his ear canal operated on due to very smelly and infected ears, and his eyes are now shot.

The family love him to bits but he has been a very expensive little doggie.

Those things are not associated with the breed though it can happen to ANY BREED. Some breeds may be more proned to things like ear infections then others, but every breed has it flaws and health issues the key is being able to do your research and weed out the people who don't test to those who do test, I'm sure if you found a pup and you opted to pay for optional test for highly uncommon things in the breed a breeder would be more then happy to get the test done on your pup. I have been around cavs alot and even handled a few in the ring no way would those dogs be there as a representation of "good breeding" if they had health issues that could potentially affect off spring.. Well anyone with ethics wouldn't be doing that anyway

[Clyde]

I groom quite a few too. I have also noticed that more have problems than not. I'm not dissing the breed, I love Cav's!! However they are probably the most unhealthiest breed I groom, without being the most popular. I always ask if from a reg'd breeder and it is usually around half half. Lately, I have been finding the temps either really really shy/nervy or slightly pyscho. They are a dog I would still consider getting in my retirement but I would certainly be doing mountains of research prior.

[LizT]

I am saying this purely from my 25 yrs of experience behind a grooming table after having handled many many dozens of pet CKCS up close & personally and also knowing & talking to their owners.

I would have to say they are the most unhealthy breed I come across.

Heart problems

Eye problems

Skin problems

major conformation issues resulting in mobility problems & pain & discomfort

Ear Problems

Reverse sneeze thingy. I don't think i've ever met one that doesn't start snorting the second they get a bit excited (usually when their owners come to collect them) I have also stood ringside many a time to watch the CKCS's shuffling around the ring snorting!

many I see have bite & dentition issues

Many I see have malformed feet & toes

Many have naso-digital hyperkerotosis (sp?)

Many I see have behavioural issues such as air sucking/gulping, air scratching, unusual & inappropriate vocalisation

Then there is the life span. I rarely meet CKCS over 7yrs, if they make 9 they've done well & anything over 10 seems to be almost miraculous....in a breed that really should expect a healthy 12-15 yrs.

And dare we mention syringomyelia

The clincher for me is the fact that many many CKCS owners I talk to admit they very much love their dog, but admit they will not have another due to the heartache & expense they have endured with the first one.

This is just anecdotal from grooming so so many of this breed. It's rare for me to see one that is the right size with the right coat, with a sound mind & body.

I see other breeds/types with health issues but nothing like what I see in CKCS.

May I also point out that the "reverse sneezing thingy" is not a health issue, it is to do with the structure of the animal and is not a health consequence.

"Bite and Dentition Issue"...the bain of most Dog Breeds...many a good dog would "fail" once a judge looked in it's mouth.

Also though the major affliction of CKCS, heart murmurs are not exclusive to the breed. We have dolers here who have had Poodle puppies diagnosed with heart murmurs resulting in difficult choices and expensive surgery. Recently an 8 week old German Pinscher was sadly given it's wings due to a severe heart murmur. Sadly, it can happen.

Cavaliers are actually very robust little dogs and not the decrepid creatures you describe. An adult will happily do a five mile run. They will excel at agility, given the opportunity, they are not fussy eaters (much to their detriment) and do not suffer from many of the afflictions other breeds suffer from such as PRA (eyes) unlike say, Poodles and Golden Retrievers, and hip dysplasia is rare in them.

The yodel vocalisation, may be unusual for other breeds but it is a characteric of the CKCS and not inappropriate!

"shuffling around the ring" :laugh: ..my bitch did not get Best In Group One by a Gundog Judge at a Melbourne Metropolitan All Breeds Show by "shuffling around the ring".....she has a spaniel movement to die for.

Edited July 19, 2012 by LizT

[Salukifan]

Oh well, no one's holding a gun to anyone's head to buy one.

If they fall from favour as pets, and return to being a fancier's dog, it can only be for the betterment of the breed. The profit breeders will desert it in droves.

My friend has a CKCS with his ET.. difficult to imagine how such a walking congenital disaster area could trot 20km and pass four vet checks, but there you go. :)

Edited July 19, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[LizT]

Oh well, no one's holding a gun to anyone's head to buy one.

If they fall from favour as pets, and return to being a fancier's dog, it can only be for the betterment of the breed. The profit breeders will desert it in droves.

My friend has a CKCS with his ET.. difficult to imagine how such a walking congenital disaster area could trot 20km and pass four vet checks, but there you go. :)

Agree. Let something else become flavour of the month! A very experienced mentor of mine told me that is is the popularity of the breed that has contributed to it's detriment.

Seriously, if someone is so concerned about health issues, in ANY breed, IMHO they should get a "Heinz 57" mutt from a shelter, that truly has some "Hybrid Vigour"...it is a Russian Roulette still..but less bullets in the chamber.

[Salukifan]

Oh well, no one's holding a gun to anyone's head to buy one.

If they fall from favour as pets, and return to being a fancier's dog, it can only be for the betterment of the breed. The profit breeders will desert it in droves.

My friend has a CKCS with his ET.. difficult to imagine how such a walking congenital disaster area could trot 20km and pass four vet checks, but there you go. :)

Agree. Let something else become flavour of the month! A very experienced mentor of mine told me that is is the popularity of the breed that has contributed to it's detriment.

Cockers, Poodles, Afghans, Irish Setters, Dalmations... they've all been through the popularity curse and survived.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[Guest Arcane]

The 'bite & dentition' issues I mention are not about a few teeth being crooked or slight misalignment. I groom several that have the most shocking of overbite. 1/2 to 1.5 inches. I just haven't seen this in other breeds like i see it in the Cavs I groom. I have 3 cavs in today and one of them is as I describe with a shocking overbite.

The feet & toes on many of the cavs I groom are really bad too. i groom quite a few with only 3 toes on at least one foot, several with four toes but one of the outer toes is severely stunted, and I even groom one with five toes on both front feet not including the dew claw. Again something I just don't see in other breeds.

I'm not trying to diss the breed either. I am simply stating my observations as fact.

I would also entertain the idea of owning one myself. I do quite like them.....But I know I would my doing the mountain of research too.

[Guest lavendergirl]

I don't understand why people get offended when questions like the OP's question are asked. I don't know much about CKCS, beyond having met lots of pets etc, and my impression has also been that they are prone to quite a few health problems. That impression may be wrong, but to be "offended" or respond in such a sarcastic manner, as in "you've got to be KIDDING, are you SERIOUSLY even asking that question!" is counter-productive.

By all means, people with breed experience and who know and own or breed healthy dogs should correct that assumption if it's incorrect, but to flat out deny that it's the case seems quite ridiculous to me. Most breeds are associated with some kind of health problem, and of course, some a prone to more problems than others. It doesn't mean you can't get a healthy specimen and find a good breeder who endeavours to eliminate those problems in the breed. I'm sure that many people's bad experiencse are through BYB dogs or irresponsibly bred dogs- but those are still experiences, and they colour people's understanding. Let's at least acknowledge that.

I personally know a couple of owners who have owned CKCS before, and have also said that they would not get another one in the future due to having lost a dog/s prematurely. To deny that that's the case is a bit ridiculous. It's not something confined to that breed - I know people who have owned Irish Wolfhounds and Great Danes who love hte breed but have said that they couldn't own another, as they couldn't deal wtih the short lifespan. It's just.. a fact.

Probably because of the manner in which the question was asked - most breed enthusiasts love their breed and do get offended by statements/questions like "are they too far gone". There might be a more tactful way to phrase it :laugh:

[julesluvscavs]

Hi :)

We own beautiful 2 Cavalier King Charles Spaniels (not sure why people still call them King Charles Cavaliers??) , Joey and Renae. They are an Absolute joy to own and we feel very blessed to have them both in our lives and hearts :D

I have owned many dogs in my life, none of which have never had some sort of health problem along the way. Mostly cancer has taken their lives

I always wanted Cavalier from when I was really young, but ended up with more active and farm type dogs as I used to compete in Obedience and Agility.

It was only in my early 30's my husband and I bought our first one 'Joey'. We were very aware that Cavaliers can have some genetic issues (altho many breeds do as well) but we wanted to make sure we did our homework and research properly first before we bought one. We knew there would never be a health guarantee (altho the decent and ethical breeders will offer another pup from future litters if there is a medical issues found in the first 12 months .. I think? im not sure the time length atm)

So with all this in mind we sought out breeders that had healthy reputable lines., as one does with every breed they are seriously thinking of buying. In fact some of us dog lovers put more effort into the getting the right healthy dog than some people who have children, when perhaps they shouldnt be because of their genetic health issues ! (But thats another topic !) Doesn't seem to stop them from producing

Anyway Joey came to us when he was about 18 months old. He had have to have a small hernia repair operation (which we knew about), but it wasn't life threatening, or has ever affected him in any way since. When I looked up about hernias in the health section on Dol , there were many other cases with all breeds of dogs, so I know its not a 'Cav' only problem.

I was paranoid in the beginning of owning him as everyone went on about Cavs and patella's, and Heart problems etc etc, and i was constantly at the vets lol Joey once strained his muscle in his leg and i straight away thought it was his patella. It was just a strain from running and turning quickly around, nothing sinister and nothing that wouldn't come right with rest ..Its been fine since!

Well he's now 8, got a brilliant heart and is great health apart from being a bit overweight, which is mostly my fault as i cant exercise them like I used to be able too. But we do watch their weight as we are advised to by their breeder and the SA Cavalier Club. As we all know extra weight can cause heart issues ( with pets or humans) but as they are prone to it, we are on cautious side . Many Cavalier owners don't always heed this advice, then they wonder why there are problems later !

The only Main issues we have had with Joey and his Mother Renae are with their teeth and gums, and thats only just recently has happened. The teeth specialist said to us its not uncommon in most brachy breeds of dogs, so not just Cavaliers. Most times teeth/gum problems can be rectified and its not necessarily means the end of their life . Renae recently had a tumour in her gums, which caused her teeth and gum problems to go bad in a year (last senior health check up at 9 all hers were perfect!). The results came back yesterday and it was benign ! Once again the specialist said this is not uncommon in brachy breeds of dogs, and she has seen them in other breeds of dogs too. She also said out of all the major things dogs can have at least with teeth problems they can be fixed unless its extreme. Dogs can still survive without out teeth and still have a reasonably good quality life !

Renae will be 1O this Sunday, and she is deaf now, but the vet said to us some dogs do go deaf, its not just Cavalier related (none of Renae's or Joey's family have been deaf that im aware off) and It doesn't appear affect her life She is a very happy Cavalier:)

Joey also has had couple of little lumps on his eyelid (benign) but once again if you go into the health section on dol, you will read of other dogs that have had these little lumps. They not sinister in any way.

Both Joey and Renae's heart are very good for their ages, and yes we have spent money on vet bills over the years, but we don't have any children (so its not like we have to fork out on their health problems too!), we live modestly in a modest house by the beach, and so what money we have spent on them has been worth it ! :D

There's no real reason unless they get cancer or have some unfortunate accident (which any dog can get, and have happen ) that our 2 won't live to a reasonable age !

I met a couple years ago Cav that was 17 ! and died of old age, and only had arthritis as one would expect at that age!

I've also met quite a few healthy cavs that do agility quite successfully and are getting on in age.

I am not naive that Cavaliers don't have some genetic issues (theres never been any secret of that) but like others have said if you are wanting to buy one make sure you find a very reputable breeder who keeps on top of their health testings etc and if you do have a problem, make sure you let the breeder know (this really applies to registered ones that care!) . They need to know! Too many people don't say anything, and the breeder isn't aware to do anything about it in their lines. Then they get a bad rap arghhhh! (I'm not a breeder, just a passionate Cavalier owner)

Most Cavs that I have heard that have had really serious health issues have mostly been from BYB's, Petshops, Rescues (not all Rescue cavs are unhealthy !) so no wonder Cavaliers get such a bad reputation from people who don't really know a lot about them

I love this breed, and will only ever own this breed (altho i am a fosterer also for small dogs for a rescue Org ). They are not all unhealthy believe me, and its not all bad about them as some people are making them out to be :)

I highly recommend Cavaliers to the right people, but I do point out the truth about that some of them can be prone to genetic health issues, but to make sure they find the right breeder and do heaps of research first, and keep on top of their weight, which is very important !

It is sad, unfortunate and bad luck (and perhaps bad breeding in some cases) that some people have had serious issues going on with theirs, but I would hate to think that would put people off wanting to buy a Cavalier. Sure there are some with bad temperaments as there are with other type dogs (and as with us humans too!) but please don't judge them all on all the negative stuff said about them. There's usually more to the story I find ;-)

Jules, Joey and Renae x

Renae is in the first pic, she will be 10 this Sunday. The second pic is of her and her son Joey, (on the right side of her) who is 8.

BTW we are working towards getting our third Cavalier in the near future !!

Edited July 19, 2012 by Jules♥Cavs