Any News On Ned Please?

[kermac]

Has to be said, poor Dougal, not saying anymore

touche!

I didn't get much a feel of remorse for poor Dougals passing either.

I'm really not quite sure what either of these contributions mean. I especially don't know what you mean by 'touche!' as it is normally used in a rather different context.

If you didn't get much of a feel of remorse for Dougal's passing, I can only suggest you either read my post again or brush up on your English language skills. I admit it might be a little nuanced for some

[kermac]

Has to be said, poor Dougal, not saying anymore

touche!

I didn't get much a feel of remorse for poor Dougals passing either.

Just because they didn't write it doesn't mean they didn't feel it.

Sure, I agree. But poor Dougal was taken to be put down immediately for killing a lamb (instinctual for many a breed) when he could have been surrendered to rescue and placed in a home without small animals or livestock no? Pretty harsh sentence tbh for people who really cared for their dog.

I can only assume you have never lived with a large dog in sheep country. These are the rules. Unfortunately Dougal didn't know the rules, but he had never shown any sign of infringing them in the previous two years.

You can't give a dog away once he has killed.

And I'll thank you not to cast aspersions on my love for my dog. Sometimes in life there is a higher duty

[kermac]

I came across this forum by chance, and joined up so I could fill in a little background detail on Ned. I'm afraid it is likely to be rather long.

My wife and I are experienced dog owners, all with medium to large dogs. We live in a lovely little village in southern NSW about an hour out of Canberra.

A friend brought to our attention the ad for a Gordon Setter called Ned seeking rehoming, so although we didn't feel our 4 y.o. Gordon named Dougal needed company - he's very self-sufficient, even a little autistic - we thought we would give Ned a try so he could see out his days in happiness and comfort.

We phoned the owner on the other side of Queanbeyan and quickly found out Ned was an escapologist, but took Dougie along to meet him anyway. They were pretty indifferent to each other, but not actively hostile. We saw that Ned had been chained to a run - which he hated - as he was able to easily clear the 3 ft rural fencing around the owner's property. Our fencing is 4 ft high, although still rural (hinge joint and steel posts), and had always contained Dougal with no problems. After some thought we agreed to take Ned on the understanding that if our fencing wasn't able to contain him we would bring him back within two weeks as we are close to a main road and we weren't prepared to replace the fencing right around the house.

As soon as we got them into the back of the wagon, Ned began to attack Dougal who responded by clawing his way into the front seat to get away from him.

We got them home, and over the next week or so on several occasions Ned monstered Dougie who was doing nothing to provoke him at all, in fact going out of his way to be submissive. It generally happened at feeding time, so we separated them when they were eating and that reduced the rate of attacks by Ned. Dougal was so terrified of Ned that he refused to go into his quarters at night (a heated outdoor laundry), preferring to sleep out in the frost than to go anywhere near Ned who by this stage had colonised all Dougie's bedding as well as his own.

Then one evening there was a terrific hullabaloo outside and Dougie was lying on his back whimpering while Ned stood on top of him apparently trying to make a meal of his throat. There was surprisingly little blood.

We deployed every strategy we could think of and they seemed to be coming to terms with each other (or perhaps more accurately, Ned was coming to terms with Dougie). They were going on walks quite amiably together, strolling down the country lanes like old mates. Ned spent a lot of time worming his way through the fences alongside the road, but showed no interest in the stock. Dougal as usual showed no interest in the fences.

Then around the middle of the second week, Ned discovered the fence around the garden and within seconds he was out. From that point he had to be kept either in the house or tied up so we rang the previous owner and said that most regrettably we would have to bring Ned back. We had grown quite fond of him, and feel he would over time have settled Dougal down - he's very immature for 4, and still inclined to be a bit silly. He also has a habit of nipping strangers on the bum (which many don't take to very kindly), and unless kept on a very short leash around small children is inclined to lunge at them in a way that terrified them.

I should have used the past tense when talking about our lovely Dougie because a few days after Ned left us, Dougal for the first time in his life found his way through a fence on his daily walk and massacred a newborn lamb before my wife was able to get to him. He was immediately taken to the vet and put down painlessly. There are no other options in sheep country apart from a bullet.

I don't know if he picked up this little trick from Ned, and we don't hold Ned responsible. It may just be an appalling coincidence.

We truly hope Ned finds a good home and spends his last few years in comfort and contentment, bringing joy to people like us. They will need first-class fences and probably an absence of other animals. He seemed in our short acquaintance to be good with adults and children, as well as smart and sensible.

Vale Dougal. We had the best of times

Very sorry that this happened to poor Dougal and that he had such a bad time with Ned - I am sure that you wish you had returned Ned a lot sooner. Thank you for sharing some of the background to this story.

Thank you

[Guest donatella]

Has to be said, poor Dougal, not saying anymore

touche!

I didn't get much a feel of remorse for poor Dougals passing either.

Just because they didn't write it doesn't mean they didn't feel it.

Sure, I agree. But poor Dougal was taken to be put down immediately for killing a lamb (instinctual for many a breed) when he could have been surrendered to rescue and placed in a home without small animals or livestock no? Pretty harsh sentence tbh for people who really cared for their dog.

I can only assume you have never lived with a large dog in sheep country. These are the rules. Unfortunately Dougal didn't know the rules, but he had never shown any sign of infringing them in the previous two years.

You can't give a dog away once he has killed.

And I'll thank you not to cast aspersions on my love for my dog. Sometimes in life there is a higher duty

It is instinctual for some dogs to want to kill, you are there to teach him those rules! To train him the rights and wrongs of living on your property. Were your sheep protected from Dougal, was Dougal protected from your sheep? Possibly the fresh blood on the new born lamb was the scent that attracted Dougal. Will we know the full story? Probably not, but I do believe you can give a dog away once it has killed it just needs to go into a home away from temptation. I also believe there have been dogs in the past rehomed with similar offences.

[kermac]

Ned spent a lot of time worming his way through the fences alongside the road, but showed no interest in the stock.

Why did you let him do this? Why not keep him on a leash? Ive lived in the country and theres no way id let one of my dogs go through fences onto other peoples property. A dog can be shot just for being anywhere near stock it doesnt have to kill them.

Sorry for the loss of Dougal but you must have known if Ned was allowed to do it the other dog might copy.

(weary sigh)...can I suggest you read my post properly? Once you've done that, here's a few more details:

We spent the first year of our ownership training Dougal to walk properly on the leash (always on the leash) and then, little by little, to walk off the leash. Only ever on deserted country lanes which had good fences on either side so there was nowhere for him to go. His temperament was pretty wild, so we would first walk him up the road on the leash to make sure there was no stock or kangaroos or other wildlife anywhere within half a mile of the fenceline, then we'd let him off the leash on the way back. After a period of months we built up confidence in him and he in us. He would even come back when called (most of the time). The only times he got into a paddock were where there was a hole in the fence or a gate left open. We knew all these spots and would put him back on the leash as we drew close, then let him off again afterwards.

We walked him for 1 - 2 hours per day, sometimes more and he absolutely loved being off the leash. It increased the quality of his walks and his life beyond measure. The only real risk was meeting a vehicle coming down the lane, but these were rare and all the locals got used to Dougal and loved him. While he often expressed great interest in paddocks full of sheep, goats or cattle, he never tried to get in and was content to watch them from the laneway. We even took on a poddy lamb in the hope of acclimatising Dougal but his reaction to it was always a bit threatening so we never allowed them to share the same space unwatched. He made no attempt to attack it.

We are fully aware that dogs are shot without question if spotted in a paddock full of sheep, and have experience in previous homes of other dogs getting amongst the sheep. On this occasion we did not "let him do this" as you suggest. Dougal was some distance from my wife on the same country lane he walked several times per week and there had never been an issue. He showed no interest in following Ned when he found a weakness in the fence the previous week, and indeed we're not even sure this was the same spot where Ned found a way through. As usual, there was nothing to be concerned about but Dougal did something neither of us had any reason to expect.

[Animal House]

Hang on, so you are saying because Ned was aggressive towards your dog (which is more than enough reason that he should have gone BACK to his owners) that you felt he could attack a person?

You do know that dog and human aggression are totally different and in no way related?

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Having been in a situation where we put a much loved dog to sleep for behavioural issues (not stock chasing), there are few things more galling than having people second guess your decision.

FWIW, I do agree that stock chasers can either be confined or rehomed to secure suburban homes so that stock is not at risk. However, the dog is now dead, and I agree with Sheridan, why don't we just let it alone and be happy for Ned. What I or anyone else thinks doesn't matter anymore. I'd not like this thread to go poof considering that we're all keen to hear how Ned gets on.

[twodoggies2001]

Can we not troll the newbie, please?

I agree. They did what they thought was best and obviously not everyone agrees.

[twodoggies2001]

Can we not troll the newbie, please?

I agree. They did what they thought was best and obviously not everyone agrees.

[mita]

FWIW, I do agree that stock chasers can either be confined or rehomed to secure suburban homes so that stock is not at risk.

However, the dog is now dead, and I agree with Sheridan, why don't we just let it alone and be happy for Ned. What I or anyone else thinks doesn't matter anymore.

I'd not like this thread to go poof considering that we're all keen to hear how Ned gets on.

Yes, yes and yes.

Also agree with twodoggies, the newbie did what they thought best at the time. No point in picking over in hindsight.

[juice]

Perhaps a few lessons need to be learnt.

Never put a new unknown dog in you car( confined area) with your own dog. Especially when they clearly were not comfortable at the first meet.

Never feed new dogs near others until you know they are not food aggro.

Never leave dogs unsupervised ,especially when they have alrerady had one spat.

learn a bit more about body language, Dougal was clearly not happy about Neds presence, but nobody did anything about it.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Perhaps a few lessons need to be learnt.

Never put a new unknown dog in you car( confined area) with your own dog. Especially when they clearly were not comfortable at the first meet.

Never feed new dogs near others until you know they are not food aggro.

Never leave dogs unsupervised ,especially when they have alrerady had one spat.

learn a bit more about body language, Dougal was clearly not happy about Neds presence, but nobody did anything about it.

Excellent. I'd also add that i would never risk a known escape artist with low fencing.

This sad tale makes me really worry how wrong things can go when normal dog owners don't know enough to make suitable matches for their own dogs and sound decisions.

Rescue groups SHOULD know better although last year i got a call from someone who'd gone to a rescue group and their little dog had avoided a staffy that the family wanted to adopt. They took the dog home, ignored all the growling the staffy was doing at the small dog whenever it came near and after a few days, the staffy nearly killed the small dog. Upon complaining to the rescue group, they got told to get some professional help. Never mind the fact their dog was half dead already, did they want the staffy to finish what it had started?

That was a rescue gorup NOT doing it's job at all well.

Edited August 1, 2012 by dogmad

[kayla1]

Perhaps a few lessons need to be learnt.

Never put a new unknown dog in you car( confined area) with your own dog. Especially when they clearly were not comfortable at the first meet.

Never feed new dogs near others until you know they are not food aggro.

Never leave dogs unsupervised ,especially when they have alrerady had one spat.

learn a bit more about body language, Dougal was clearly not happy about Neds presence, but nobody did anything about it.

Excellent. I'd also add that i would never risk a known escape artist with low fencing.

This sad tale makes me really worry how wrong things can go when normal dog owners don't know enough to make suitable matches for their own dogs and sound decisions.

Rescue groups SHOULD know better although last year i got a call from someone who'd gone to a rescue group and their little dog had avoided a staffy that the family wanted to adopt. They took the dog home, ignored all the growling the staffy was doing at the small dog whenever it came near and after a few days, the staffy nearly killed the small dog. Upon complaining to the rescue group, they got told to get some professional help. Never mind the fact their dog was half dead already, did they want the staffy to finish what it had started?

That was a rescue gorup NOT doing it's job at all well.

Agree, particularly re fencing.

[Sares]

Can we not troll the newbie, please?

I agree. They did what they thought was best and obviously not everyone agrees.

I agree too!

I am still relatively new on this forum and sometimes scared to post questions out of fear of being attacked for doing/saying the wrong thing. I tend to find myself lurking a lot because there is a lot of knowledge here, just a bit imtimdating at times.

[Greytmate]

So many things done wrong by this dog.

And adult male dog put straight into a confined space with another adult male who is not particularly social towards other dogs. Two strange dogs being fed near each other. A known fence jumper being rehomed to a place with low rural fencing And an owner who would rather have his dog put down than follow local laws to keep a dog on lead or behind a fence.

I would have been surprised to see this succeed.

And it makes me feel sick, just like the other Ned thread. Sorry if anyone is offended by this but it needs to be pointed out so that others reading here will hopefully avoid the same mistakes.

[mumof4girls]

Go for it Shares don't let other people intimidate you especially faceless people :-) .. I just laugh to myself and think get a life if someone says a nasty comment to me..

Re Ned I hope life gets better now as he has had a rough ride .. poor boy..

Can we not troll the newbie, please?

I agree. They did what they thought was best and obviously not everyone agrees.

I agree too!

I am still relatively new on this forum and sometimes scared to post questions out of fear of being attacked for doing/saying the wrong thing. I tend to find myself lurking a lot because there is a lot of knowledge here, just a bit imtimdating at times.

[Guest lavendergirl]

Yes, it seems that many of Ned's perceived faults have been exacerbated by well meaning but inexperienced people. Hope to see some good feedback from his new home soon

[Sares]

Go for it Shares don't let other people intimidate you especially faceless people :-) .. I just laugh to myself and think get a life if someone says a nasty comment to me..

Re Ned I hope life gets better now as he has had a rough ride .. poor boy..

Can we not troll the newbie, please?

I agree. They did what they thought was best and obviously not everyone agrees.

I agree too!

I am still relatively new on this forum and sometimes scared to post questions out of fear of being attacked for doing/saying the wrong thing. I tend to find myself lurking a lot because there is a lot of knowledge here, just a bit imtimdating at times.

Thanks mumof4girls!! :)

[Greytmate]

Nobody should ever be afraid of asking questions.

But coming in here informing us that you don't want to build a proper fence or keep your dog on the lead and you will get what you deserve. And if you have your dog put down as a 'result' without even bothering to question why a dog would attack a lamb, you should be thoroughly ashamed.

Questions are good because this entire story of fools could have been avoided if people sought knowledge instead of acting in ignorance.

[mumof4girls]

So true ..

Nobody should ever be afraid of asking questions.

But coming in here informing us that you don't want to build a proper fence or keep your dog on the lead and you will get what you deserve. And if you have your dog put down as a 'result' without even bothering to question why a dog would attack a lamb, you should be thoroughly ashamed.

Questions are good because this entire story of fools could have been avoided if people sought knowledge instead of acting in ignorance.