7.30 Tuesday

[Melbomb]

Well what vile excuses for men. It was an unbiased report showing the need for culling the pigs but then the wicked part of seeing an animal slowly savaged to death and torturing it as part of the "fun".

Vile, repugnant, filth.

Agreed. What sick mind would find that fun?

The same minds that enjoy and participate in dog fighting?

While the plight of the poor pigs is very disturbing, I am also concerned about what has been done to those dogs. They have been taught to kill and they could end up in the local pound where they could be picked up by some well-meaning rescue group and then rehoused in suburbia where they might live nextdoor to young children.

Where are you going with this Padraic? Are you trying to say that the child would then be in danger if a pigging dog was rehomed next to it? How you can equate a dog that is a pig hunter to a human agressive dog that will attack a child i will never know. It's not the same thing.

Also don't you think that any rescue worthwhile would pick up before a dog is rehomed, that it has behaviour problems and rehome accordingly?

Edited July 18, 2012 by Melbomb

[oakway]

So I watched it, I still can't work out what 7:30 were trying to convey? It seemed 2 things were balled into one with a highlight on animal cruelty from the numpty youtube posters, which most people would only remember of the show as it is shocking to see.

The end message seemed to be ban dogging with Clover Moore crying, yet offered no analysis of the overall effectiveness in using dogs in pig control. Since the use of dogs, turned into sport, which turned into an industry seems so big instead of banning perhaps the government can look for ways to accredit pig doggers and crack down on people doing the wrong thing when hunting.

Yes their are a lot of Cowboys out there that do the good pig hunters and their dogs a lot of harm.

Without our pig hunters we would have ferrel pigs running amuck.

[raineth]

Do pig hunters need a permit? Or can anyone go and hunt feral pigs?

[Salukifan]

Melbomb:

Where are you going with this Padraic? Are you trying to say that the child would then be in danger if a pigging dog was rehomed next to it? How you can equate a dog that is a pig hunter to a human agressive dog that will attack a child i will never know. It's not the same thing.

Perhaps not, but a pig dog that hasn't been well socialised with kids might confuse a child for prey. It's happened before.

Remember this tragedy?

Also don't you think that any rescue worthwhile would pick up before a dog is rehomed, that it has behaviour problems and rehome accordingly?

Given that there are rescues that never have dogs out of kennel runs before they rehome and/or that hold dogs only for days before placing them, it could happen.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[GeckoTree]

I think to hunt state forest a permit is pretty much mandatory.

[raineth]

I think to hunt state forest a permit is pretty much mandatory.

I wonder if everyone needded a permit to pig hunt whether some of the 'cowboys' would be reduced. Or whether it would just be impossible to regulate anyway.

Pig hunting is pretty big around here, but there are no state forests here at all that I know of. So I'm sure it would nearly all be done on private property.

[Melbomb]

Melbomb:

Where are you going with this Padraic? Are you trying to say that the child would then be in danger if a pigging dog was rehomed next to it? How you can equate a dog that is a pig hunter to a human agressive dog that will attack a child i will never know. It's not the same thing.

Perhaps not, but a pig dog that hasn't been well socialised with kids might confuse a child for prey. It's happened before.

Remember this tragedy?

Your right but i still fail to see how someone can make the massive assumption that just because a dog is a pig hunter that it will definitely kill a child or need to be kept away from children? Maybe Padraic has some experince that she is basing her opinion on, but i doubt it.

Also don't you think that any rescue worthwhile would pick up before a dog is rehomed, that it has behaviour problems and rehome accordingly?

Given that there are rescues that never have dogs out of kennel runs before they rehome and/or that hold dogs only for days before placing them, it could happen.

Yes it could happen, and it could just as easily happen with any type of dog wouldn't you say?

[GeckoTree]

I think to hunt state forest a permit is pretty much mandatory.

I wonder if everyone needded a permit to pig hunt whether some of the 'cowboys' would be reduced. Or whether it would just be impossible to regulate anyway.

Pig hunting is pretty big around here, but there are no state forests here at all that I know of. So I'm sure it would nearly all be done on private property.

It would have to be better than banning

It may be reduced, I don't think the 'cowboys' would grow in numbers if that were the case though, people need permission from the land owner to hunt private property otherwise it's a crime, permits and licences can be revoked if the person is found to break the agreement of the permit or licence. In the case for across the board permits if everyone had to hold a permit the land owner would need to see a valid permit before access is granted.

As an outsider looking in, it looks to me like a momentum is building to ban it in public lands though.

[Lhok]

From my limited knowledge, pig hunting is mostly done on private property. To do so in a state forest you require a permit and (I'm not 100% on this) need to be a professional shooter. Pig hunting is dangerous and to do it safely you do need dogs, anyone who is serious about it trains their dogs to bail and hold the pig they also can call the dog off the hunt and pig at any time.

As with everything it's the people who have little regard for anything apart from themselves that ruin things for others.

--Lhok

[sandgrubber]

Hunting dogs are not taught to kill, it is a misconception.

In the US, pig dogging ranges from mark and recapture sport where the pig lives to be hunted again to something equally as brutal as bear bating or pit fighting. . . . which have been banned for more than a century. Society still tolerates brutality toward pigs (and rats). So far as I know, our local pig hunters use dogs only to locate the pig (or boar) and get him in the open, where a rifle can be used. I have no idea how many blood sport types there are; I'd guess that they are a small minority, but there's plenty of evidence on U-tube that they exist, and that there are blood sport voyeurs to encourage them.

I suspect that people who set their dogs on a pig end out with a lot of dogs getting killed . . . and very few rescued.

Dogs used in blood sport are encouraged to tear their 'prey' to pieces, and are bred to take easily to such encouragement. The combination of low bite inhibition and great strength is a combination better to keep away from kids . . . unless the owners are extremely attentive and both dogs and kids are well restrained.

Edited July 18, 2012 by sandgrubber

[Crisovar]

Good pig dogs rarely get killed by pigs, there are injuries at times yes but amongst the pro hunters not many deaths. Whilst I don't agree with the way the cowboys operate there are so many misconceptions about the whole deal that it irritates me.

[Alyosha]

I think the focus here is not the good pig hunters. Good and well trained dogs are unlikely to end up in the pound, or abandoned when lost in the bush. The cowboys are the problem, their dogs are not always well trained, or managed, and can well be dangerous. Granted it is usually the duds that get dumped at the pounds, being too soft for redneck hunting escapades, and they can and do make good pets. But the poor training and mis-management of some can cause serious temperament issues.

[Salukifan]

Melbomb:

Yes it could happen, and it could just as easily happen with any type of dog wouldn't you say?

No, I wouldn't say.

A dog that has had its prey drive activated and sated on prey larger than a child, that has been encouraged to bring prey down and that has mauled and torn at that prey and that cannot (due to inadequate socialisation) differentiate between a pig, a child and other animals is going to be a lot more likely to harm a child than "any type of dog".

The use a dog is put to and its level of socialisation with people are two key factors in what makes a dog dangerous to humans. To pretend otherwise is to ignore that socialisation and experience as as important as genetics in making any dog what it is.

There are many pig dogs that are as safe as houses with kids. But they know what kids are. If you do not allow a dog to form a bond with other humans (or small humans) and you encourage it to attack any and everything it sees, then that is a dangerous dog and the attack statistics support it.

[Melbomb]

Melbomb:

Yes it could happen, and it could just as easily happen with any type of dog wouldn't you say?

No, I wouldn't say.

A dog that has had its prey drive activated and sated on prey larger than a child, that has been encouraged to bring prey down and that has mauled and torn at that prey and that cannot (due to inadequate socialisation) differentiate between a pig, a child and other animals is going to be a lot more likely to harm a child than "any type of dog".

The use a dog is put to and its level of socialisation with people are two key factors in what makes a dog dangerous to humans. To pretend otherwise is to ignore that socialisation and experience as as important as genetics in making any dog what it is.

There are many pig dogs that are as safe as houses with kids. But they know what kids are. If you do not allow a dog to form a bond with other humans (or small humans) and you encourage it to attack any and everything it sees, then that is a dangerous dog and the attack statistics support it.

Generally i agree with you. But i still think it is scare mongering to say things like - (and yes i am paraphrasing) "oh no, the dog might end up living next to a child". Really? And? Any number of dogs might end up living next door to a child. So should we be worried about all dogs? I just think it was an extremely silly and short sighted statement that i felt i couldn't let pass.

Maybe you know people that use dogs for pig hunting so you know they don't socialise with kids, adults, all and sundry. But i always thought that most (obviously not all, because there are bad dog owners in every kinds of groups of people) kept the dogs as pets as well as using them for pig hunting. I am happy to be corrected in that regard. I would also have thought that being that these dogs work in tandem (for want of a better description) with humans whilst pigging that dogs that are not human tolerant or likely to lash out at just anything would not be used.

But anyway, that's kind of completely off topic isn't it!

[nawnim]

Melbomb My earlier comment referred to the dogs shown on the 7.30 report. In case you did not see the programme towards the end they showed some clips from YouTube where dogs (and I have no idea of their breeding, but they were large and athletic) were shown mauling a pig to death. We were told that sometimes the mauling went on for several hours. These dogs were encouraged to maul and kill and I repeat I would not like to live next door to them especially if I had children.

[raineth]

What do these cowboys do to their dogs though?

I know that's a potentially impossible question to ask because there could be so much variation... but do they actually train these dogs in any way to do the hunting?

I thought perhaps the younger dogs/pups learn what to do from the older experienced pigging dogs. But that is just a guess.

[GeckoTree]

Theres definitely sickoes about, that is nothing to do with pig hunting, they were penned/ trapped and dogs encouraged to attack. It's an animal cruelty issue, not a pig hunting with dogs issue. This is where they 7:30 show blurred the line.

[raineth]

Theres definitely sickoes about, that is nothing to do with pig hunting, they were penned/ trapped and dogs encouraged to attack. It's an animal cruelty issue, not a pig hunting with dogs issue. This is where they 7:30 show blurred the line.

yes I agree.

There are people up the road from me with pig hunting dogs.

One day when I was walking past their house I saw a hog (dead) hanging in the back of their ute. There was not a mark on it apart from the obvious one not made by a dog. The pig didn't look like it had been bitten let alone mauled.

I don't know if everything these people do is ethical ofcourse, but that hog had seemed to have been killed humanely.

[Melbomb]

Melbomb My earlier comment referred to the dogs shown on the 7.30 report. In case you did not see the programme towards the end they showed some clips from YouTube where dogs (and I have no idea of their breeding, but they were large and athletic) were shown mauling a pig to death. We were told that sometimes the mauling went on for several hours. These dogs were encouraged to maul and kill and I repeat I would not like to live next door to them especially if I had children.

Fair enough Padraic and ofcourse you are entitled to your opinion. I made the mistake of thinking that you were talking about all pig hunting dogs. But again i don't think that what they showed on the 7:30 report was true representation of all of the pig hunting community.

[sandgrubber]

The sickos that give thumbs up to such displays on U-tube are as much a worry as the perps who post the vids.

Btw, there are real people who are proud to call themselves cowboys. They can be rough, and many might use a rifle where the RSPCA would call in a vet to inject the Green Dream. But most of them would be disgusted by setting dogs on pigs to watch blood and gore. . . just as would their Australian equivalent, the jackeroo.