Calcium For Puppies

[jakeyjangels]

Thank you everyone for your replies.

minyvlz I don't think the F&V & bone content of BARF patties is to high a proportion.

Following my breeders recommendation, I purchased & read cover to cover two of Dr Billinghurst's books.

I have used his 'methods' (patties/roll & homemade recipe with approx 30% F&V) for over 2 years & since both my Labradors were 8 weeks old. I have had outstanding results.

They are both happy & very healthy. Some of the benefits I have seen are: beautiful healthy soft coats, less shedding, no doggy odour,clean teeth & ears & very few fleas are just few of the benefits I have seen. They have no health issues & have only had vet appointments for desexing & vaccinations. I have been very careful not to over-exercise. No long boring walks just play exercise & obedience training.

I think my sisters vet is giving bad advice hence starting this topic. I can't believe that there is a better form of calcium for puppies than chewing (soft) bone. I do not believe in & have never used calcium powder.

[Bullbreedlover]

So please explain your prey model diet for your dogs and what breed are they?

Pretty sure there is just one prey model diet. Doesn't matter what breeds they are, all dogs are the same species and have the same alimentary system.

Agree re taking advice from vet! But have to disagree re BARF ! Thanks for your reply

Perhaps you can explain why you disagree? Not trying to pick anything, just interested in hearing what people have to say :)

gee I wonder where the vet got his info from - a pet food company perhaps? Maybe the one that makes the brand he sells?

Raw meaty bones are what the dog is DESIGNED to eat. I wonder how all those canids in the wild or fending for themselves survived all those milennia eating those inappropriate bones to provide their calcuim requirements.

Personally I would take the experience of mother nature in designing a system to convert its natural food over a scientist employed by a pet food company to manufacture a substitute any day. Not like they have a vested interest in telling you only their special scientific formula is the most appropriate to feed a dog is there.....

(yes that was sarcasm - I am so over pet food companies creating a self serving culture of fear and paralysis to 'do as they say' by convincing people that you need a science degree to feed a dog!....rant over)

Yes, I feed a raw diet and yes bones provide an adequeate saurce of calcium for growing pups. I also agree with Sway that you do NOT supplement with additional calcium (whether you feed raw meaty bones or commercial) which is a fast way to cause problems in growing dogs.

More info on raw diets and what we do on my website here: feeding our dogs

Agree with this.

Interesting to note that you say dogs are carnivores and as such should be fed meat, yet you also state that your dogs diets do consist of vegetables, eggs, yoghurt etc.

If they were carnivores, meat should make up 100% of their diet.

But we all know that even in the wild, wolves and undomesticated dogs also eat vegetable matter.

But our dogs are not in the wild. While I do not agree with alot of the additives that pet food companies put in the dog food, it is still a million dollar plus a year business and up to each indiviual person what they should feed.

Myself, I prefer to add vegetables, fish and yoghurt etc to their dry food diet.

[Rebanne]

Understand the breed isn't purebred and only mentioned the puppies breed to indicate size. That is the breed name the puppies are sold as. Hope I didn't insult you or your purebred breed. (Happy to pm you the breeders website my sister purchased from for you to have a look ). You are right to shudder re the price! Even though I have never had an issue with feeding bones with my 2 Labs, I understand your reasoning for not feeding them. I am just after a valid explanation regarding puppies unable to consume calcium from bones. Thanks

of course puppies can consume calcium from bones, what do you think they eat in the wild?

Sorry as there is no such breed there is no indication of size.

[espinay2]

So please explain your prey model diet for your dogs and what breed are they?

Pretty sure there is just one prey model diet. Doesn't matter what breeds they are, all dogs are the same species and have the same alimentary system.

Agree re taking advice from vet! But have to disagree re BARF ! Thanks for your reply

Perhaps you can explain why you disagree? Not trying to pick anything, just interested in hearing what people have to say :)

gee I wonder where the vet got his info from - a pet food company perhaps? Maybe the one that makes the brand he sells?

Raw meaty bones are what the dog is DESIGNED to eat. I wonder how all those canids in the wild or fending for themselves survived all those milennia eating those inappropriate bones to provide their calcuim requirements.

Personally I would take the experience of mother nature in designing a system to convert its natural food over a scientist employed by a pet food company to manufacture a substitute any day. Not like they have a vested interest in telling you only their special scientific formula is the most appropriate to feed a dog is there.....

(yes that was sarcasm - I am so over pet food companies creating a self serving culture of fear and paralysis to 'do as they say' by convincing people that you need a science degree to feed a dog!....rant over)

Yes, I feed a raw diet and yes bones provide an adequeate saurce of calcium for growing pups. I also agree with Sway that you do NOT supplement with additional calcium (whether you feed raw meaty bones or commercial) which is a fast way to cause problems in growing dogs.

More info on raw diets and what we do on my website here: feeding our dogs

Agree with this.

Interesting to note that you say dogs are carnivores and as such should be fed meat, yet you also state that your dogs diets do consist of vegetables, eggs, yoghurt etc.

If they were carnivores, meat should make up 100% of their diet.

But we all know that even in the wild, wolves and undomesticated dogs also eat vegetable matter.

But our dogs are not in the wild. While I do not agree with alot of the additives that pet food companies put in the dog food, it is still a million dollar plus a year business and up to each indiviual person what they should feed.

Myself, I prefer to add vegetables, fish and yoghurt etc to their dry food diet.

Even cats, which are obligate carnivores, will eat things other than meat....even in the wild. But they are still carnivores.

And bone is an appropriate source of calcium for them too......whether in a natural diet or used by a manufacturer to create a commercial product.

[minyvlz]

So please explain your prey model diet for your dogs and what breed are they?

Pretty sure there is just one prey model diet. Doesn't matter what breeds they are, all dogs are the same species and have the same alimentary system.

Agree re taking advice from vet! But have to disagree re BARF ! Thanks for your reply

Perhaps you can explain why you disagree? Not trying to pick anything, just interested in hearing what people have to say :)

gee I wonder where the vet got his info from - a pet food company perhaps? Maybe the one that makes the brand he sells?

Raw meaty bones are what the dog is DESIGNED to eat. I wonder how all those canids in the wild or fending for themselves survived all those milennia eating those inappropriate bones to provide their calcuim requirements.

Personally I would take the experience of mother nature in designing a system to convert its natural food over a scientist employed by a pet food company to manufacture a substitute any day. Not like they have a vested interest in telling you only their special scientific formula is the most appropriate to feed a dog is there.....

(yes that was sarcasm - I am so over pet food companies creating a self serving culture of fear and paralysis to 'do as they say' by convincing people that you need a science degree to feed a dog!....rant over)

Yes, I feed a raw diet and yes bones provide an adequeate saurce of calcium for growing pups. I also agree with Sway that you do NOT supplement with additional calcium (whether you feed raw meaty bones or commercial) which is a fast way to cause problems in growing dogs.

More info on raw diets and what we do on my website here: feeding our dogs

Agree with this.

Interesting to note that you say dogs are carnivores and as such should be fed meat, yet you also state that your dogs diets do consist of vegetables, eggs, yoghurt etc.

If they were carnivores, meat should make up 100% of their diet.

But we all know that even in the wild, wolves and undomesticated dogs also eat vegetable matter.

But our dogs are not in the wild. While I do not agree with alot of the additives that pet food companies put in the dog food, it is still a million dollar plus a year business and up to each indiviual person what they should feed.

Myself, I prefer to add vegetables, fish and yoghurt etc to their dry food diet.

I don't think you understand what prey model raw is. perhaps some googling will do you good? i used to feed homemade barf, but have switched to PMR. or you have gotten espinay2 and i mixed up.

where did you get the info that wolves and wild dogs also eat vegetable matter? they are opportunistic hunters, and will eat poo, flowers etc. it is not a significant part of their diet. wolves shake out the stomach content before eating the stomach lining.

[Bullbreedlover]

I don't think you understand what prey model raw is. perhaps some googling will do you good? i used to feed homemade barf, but have switched to PMR. or you have gotten espinay2 and i mixed up.

where did you get the info that wolves and wild dogs also eat vegetable matter? they are opportunistic hunters, and will eat poo, flowers etc. it is not a significant part of their diet. wolves shake out the stomach content before eating the stomach lining.

I am aware thanks of prey model raw diet.

I asked what foods primarily made up the diet you fed but you never bothered to answer.

And part of my post previous was in rely to a post by Espinay2 but the reply got all lumped together.

And yes Wolves DO eat vegetable matter, grasses, berries and the like to supplement their diet. They always have done. Didnt you know that?

[minyvlz]

I don't think you understand what prey model raw is. perhaps some googling will do you good? i used to feed homemade barf, but have switched to PMR. or you have gotten espinay2 and i mixed up.

where did you get the info that wolves and wild dogs also eat vegetable matter? they are opportunistic hunters, and will eat poo, flowers etc. it is not a significant part of their diet. wolves shake out the stomach content before eating the stomach lining.

I am aware thanks of prey model raw diet.

I asked what foods primarily made up the diet you fed but you never bothered to answer.

And part of my post previous was in rely to a post by Espinay2 but the reply got all lumped together.

And yes Wolves DO eat vegetable matter, grasses, berries and the like to supplement their diet. They always have done. Didnt you know that?

So if you know about a prey model diet then you should know the diet consists of nothing more than meat, bones and organs. What is there to ask?

Nope, please support your claims with evidence.

[Bullbreedlover]

I don't think you understand what prey model raw is. perhaps some googling will do you good? i used to feed homemade barf, but have switched to PMR. or you have gotten espinay2 and i mixed up.

where did you get the info that wolves and wild dogs also eat vegetable matter? they are opportunistic hunters, and will eat poo, flowers etc. it is not a significant part of their diet. wolves shake out the stomach content before eating the stomach lining.

I am aware thanks of prey model raw diet.

I asked what foods primarily made up the diet you fed but you never bothered to answer.

And part of my post previous was in rely to a post by Espinay2 but the reply got all lumped together.

And yes Wolves DO eat vegetable matter, grasses, berries and the like to supplement their diet. They always have done. Didnt you know that?

So if you know about a prey model diet then you should know the diet consists of nothing more than meat, bones and organs. What is there to ask?

Nope, please support your claims with evidence.

Oh for goodness sake. I was asking what particular carcasses you use. Is that SO hard to answer. Obviously.

You seriously didnt know that Wolves supplement their diet with vegetable matter. I learnt that many many years ago whilst researching the Canus Lupus. Why dont YOU google to see what YOU can come up with.

[luvsdogs]

This from Wolf Park.

http://www.wolfpark.org/aboutwolves.shtml#eat

I used to make Billinghurst's diet for my Border Collie. I soon got sick of spending hours making the veggie mix (before he started making his Barf patties) & she didn't like it unless I added something else with it. In his puppy book he says that raw bones are the perfect source of calcium & phosphorus for puppies in the correct ratio. In 2000 my son brought home a small puppy & we started her on the Billinghurst diet but when we took her to the vet & told her what she was eating we were told, because she was so thin, that if an RSPCA inspector came past our house & saw her we would be reported. Also that she needed kibble to get the calcium she needed. She was put on kibble & now 12 yrs later she's still a thin dog, it's in her make up.

I later bought Tom Lonsdale's books & he advocates raw meaty bones & good quality table scraps.

I recently joined a raw feeding group & they advocate a prey model diet which is 80% meat, 10% offal & 10% raw bones.

I now have a 1 y/o Japanese Spitz dog with terribly brown teeth & am mostly feeding him the Lonsdale diet of RMB.

Myths about feeding RMB

http://rawfed.com/myths/bones.html