persephone Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I'd say there's a snowballs chance in hell of identifying the genes that make a good working dog. And that's because genes don't account for environment and training. No, however a lot of traits/working styles/preferences, travel down the line ... I love watching pups 'working' pet sheep or poultry ..and being able to immediately spot the 'style' of their grandparents , etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I'd say there's a snowballs chance in hell of identifying the genes that make a good working dog. And that's because genes don't account for environment and training. No, however a lot of traits/working styles/preferences, travel down the line ... I love watching pups 'working' pet sheep or poultry ..and being able to immediately spot the 'style' of their grandparents , etc. Yep, keep mating the shy ones and what do you end up with....boldness lost. Environment and training can assist or cover up issues but when placed under enough pressure I think most dogs revert to whats in their hard wiring. I'm thinking along the lines of Myer Briggs for dogs - adapted personality and true personality. When that bull is staring them down they either have the courage or they don't. I agree that they wont be able to make it an exact science. I was surprised when I have spent time with sheep herders that it can take up to a year to find a suitable pup for a particular handler. Soft handlers need softer dogs...it is a partnership after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Instead of spending loads of money to no purpose, they could just go to the kelpie muster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Environment and training can assist or cover up issues but when placed under enough pressure I think most dogs revert to whats in their hard wiring. This is what I was taught many many years ago when doing my guide dog training course...and I stick by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 if any of it meant there were less pups bred on farm with the hope for a good working dog, then the rest of the litter just killed for being 'just not right for the job', I'm for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 They did something similar with Guide dogs for memory. They found that there was a correlation between some traits and what paw the dog had dominant. And I THINK they have found something about the whorls on dogs. http://www.guidedogs.com.au/Content/upload/files/amc2010/presenters_papers/Microsoft%20Word%20-%20Lisa%20Tomkins%20-Association%20between%20lateralization%20measures%20and%20guide%20dog%20success.pdf They are not necessarily looking to create a robot dog, they may be trying to find out what traits MAY have a genetic component they can find, or find traits that correlate with what farmers find desirable. My guess would be looking at farm dogs because if they use WKC Kelpies they have a closed, closely related population which makes genetic testing easier. And they will probably look at traits that they found in previous studies (in guide dogs and police dogs I think) to see how they play out in working dogs. It may seem like none of this matters but in the end it tells us more about genetics etc and how genetics comes into play. It may help select better working dogs, or it may be used to try and understand something completely different about animal behaviour. Please note I don't know anyone involved in this project so can only speculate. I don't think we can really say anything based on an article that would have been written to catch attention, rather than based on the actual probably more boring and realistic goals of the study :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Curious. The elite among working dogs are valued, coveted, etc. What do their breeding programs look like? Is it possible that the various apparently genetic diseases people have referred to above are coming out of inbreeding or tight line breeding? I though kelpies were generally tough critters with few health problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I'd say there's a snowballs chance in hell of identifying the genes that make a good working dog. And that's because genes don't account for environment and training. No, however a lot of traits/working styles/preferences, travel down the line ... I love watching pups 'working' pet sheep or poultry ..and being able to immediately spot the 'style' of their grandparents , etc. Yep, keep mating the shy ones and what do you end up with....boldness lost. Environment and training can assist or cover up issues but when placed under enough pressure I think most dogs revert to whats in their hard wiring. I'm thinking along the lines of Myer Briggs for dogs - adapted personality and true personality. When that bull is staring them down they either have the courage or they don't. I agree that they wont be able to make it an exact science. I was surprised when I have spent time with sheep herders that it can take up to a year to find a suitable pup for a particular handler. Soft handlers need softer dogs...it is a partnership after all. exactly, too often people forget they dont come off an assemly line like cars, applies to ALL living creatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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