Lollipup Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Okay, so I want to get into photography as a hobby, mainly animal shots. I spoke to a very helpful guy at Camera House today to get an idea of what to aim for as a first DSLR. I want the best I can afford including lenses and my price range is around about $1500. I am thinking either Canon or Nikon. I really love Ruthless Photos and that would be the kind of style I want to learn to do. The guy at the shop suggested a 50mm lens would be ideal for what I want and the Canon 600D came with it plus a 18-55mm/55-250mm lens. Please keep in mind I currently know very little about photography and lenses, just going off what I saw today. I am happy to buy lenses separately as long as the overall cost is under $2k. My other options were - 1. Canon 60D with twin IS kit w/18-55mm IS & 55-250MM IS Lenses. Then I would add the 50mm separately. 2. Nikon D5100 kit w/18-55mm VR, 55-300mm VR & 35mm f/1.8G lenses. He said I could just use the 35mm lens in this kit instead of the 50mm but that the 50mm would be better suited to my needs. 3. Buy a canon or nikon body and then buy a Tamron 17-50 F2.8 lens and the 50mm lens separately. Please help! This is all new and confusing to me but I really want to get the best set up I can afford from the start. Its something I've been wanting to do for ages. Is one brand better than the other or is it all just personal preference? Oh and he also said that sometimes people bag out the lenses that come with the kits and that while its true that they aren't as good, you can still learn to get good shots with them. Some ideas of what I want to shoot - mainly dogs - actions and stills, close ups and distance. Horses, same as dogs, occasional birds, scenery and people I guess lol. I want nice clear crisp bright shots. I've seen a lot of good photos on DOL so I know this is a good place to ask! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 The 50mm is too short for dogs. It's a great lens and would be fine for indoor shots of dogs or dogs that are not moving, but it's much too short for action etc. If I were you I'd start with the kit lenses because with a budget of $1500 you're not going to get a camera plus great lenses to suit both dogs and action, as well as scenery etc. Get the kit lenses and see what style you end up with and what focal lengths you use often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollipup Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 Thanks so much Snook! I love your photos, I always notice them and admire when you post them. What exactly does grey import mean? I do know I want to stick to it. It's too much money to not stick to it! As I said I want to get the best set up I can afford from the get go, I'm a big believer of getting what you pay for and getting the best you can afford from the start. I am thinking of doing a course to learn the basics. I was thinking maybe this - http://www.thephotographyinstitute.com.au/index.cfm/apg/home the 50mm did sound good but as I said I don't really know what I am talking about yet. I love your photos, if I could shoot like that I would be happy! And as I said, Ruths are great too. And Katy Takes a Picture. I think I am leaning towards the Nikon D5100. I just want to figure out exactly what I want and then I will worry about looking around for the best deal but these grey imports sound interesting :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollipup Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 Thanks Tess, I showed the shop guy Ruthless website photos and that's what he suggested the 50mm for - the shots with the crisp dog and the blurred background. Does that make more sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 It does, but you'll get the same blurred background if you use a longer zoom lens and that will suit the action shots too. The 50mm is pretty cheap though, you can probably add it in regardless of what you go with. If you go Canon, you COULD go a 70-200 F4 L, which has the 'pop' to the images you are wanting, and then add in a 50mm. See how the prices for that goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlc Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Good advice above! I'll add my 5c worth, for the price of the 50mm 1.8 (around $150) why not get one and have a play. When I had my Nikon D80 I used the 50mm most of the time, it hardly ever came off the camera. I loved it. Have you had a look at the thread here dedicated to that lens? Not to go against what Tess has said about the action shots with the 50mm as she is right they are probly better suited to stationary subjects but AI have taken a few good action shots with mine but you need to be at the right distance to the action as it is a prime lens so no zoom at all. A course is a great idea, I had the basics but did a course at Tafe, it was good lots of info about using the camera in manual and understanding what everything means and they also added basic photoshop. Good luck with whatever you decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlc Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) Snap Tess! :laugh: And Snook! I paid about $300 for the course I did it was cert 3 in visual arts. Edited July 12, 2012 by tlc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlc Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Lots of snapping going on in here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollipup Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 It does, but you'll get the same blurred background if you use a longer zoom lens and that will suit the action shots too. The 50mm is pretty cheap though, you can probably add it in regardless of what you go with. If you go Canon, you COULD go a 70-200 F4 L, which has the 'pop' to the images you are wanting, and then add in a 50mm. See how the prices for that goes. I think I would like to add it in as well as have a more versatile lens. But I am also confused at this stage. Good advice above! I'll add my 5c worth, for the price of the 50mm 1.8 (around $150) why not get one and have a play. When I had my Nikon D80 I used the 50mm most of the time, it hardly ever came off the camera. I loved it. Have you had a look at the thread here dedicated to that lens? Not to go against what Tess has said about the action shots with the 50mm as she is right they are probly better suited to stationary subjects but AI have taken a few good action shots with mine but you need to be at the right distance to the action as it is a prime lens so no zoom at all. A course is a great idea, I had the basics but did a course at Tafe, it was good lots of info about using the camera in manual and understanding what everything means and they also added basic photoshop. Good luck with whatever you decide. no tafe courses for photography available here and I probably wouldn't want to commit to a whole tafe course right now. A short course for the basics is more appealing :) I have heard of the 50mm thread and very interested but haven't found it yet. I personally wouldn't pay out over $1000 for an online photography course. Maybe just to get started have a look at something like a local community college intro course to using a DSLR. I did an 8 week one that went for 2 hours each week and what I learnt was absolutely invaluable, taught me how to use a camera manually and it was brilliant being able to ask questions in person and get hands on help if I was stuck. It cost me something like $120 through WEA. I'd really recommend getting the basics under control before you decide whether you want to pay for something like that course as you may decide it doesn't suit you or you'd prefer to be in a face to face environment. I'd be a bit wary of any course that claims you'll be ready to work as a professional photographer at the end of it too. Learning the technical stuff won't necessarily mean someone can automatically take good photos. Here's an explanation of grey imports from Wikipedia (easier than me trying to explain it): Grey-market goods refer to "legal goods" which are sold outside normal distribution channels by companies which may have no relationship with the producer of the goods. Frequently this form of parallel import occurs when the price of an item is significantly higher in one country than another. This situation commonly occurs with electronic equipment such as cameras. Entrepreneurs buy the product where it is available cheaply, often at retail but sometimes at wholesale, and import it legally to the target market. They then sell it at a price high enough to provide a profit but under the normal market price. International efforts to promote free trade, including reduced tariffs and harmonized national standards, facilitate this form of arbitrage whenever manufacturers attempt to preserve highly disparate pricing. Because of the nature of grey markets, it is difficult or impossible to track the precise numbers of grey-market sales. Grey-market goods are often new, but some grey market goods are used goods. A market in used goods is sometimes nicknamed a Green Market. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_market I didn't know about grey imports when I bought my first DSLR but when I upgraded recently I bought my camera body and one lens in Australia as CameraPro's prices came in at only slightly higher than the grey prices for these items once you added GST, so I paid a bit extra and got Australian warranty for both and Nikon have a standard 2 year warranty. I bought my 70-200mm from DWI though as it was approx. $1000 cheaper than buying it in Australia. I figured that kind of saving was worth the risk of having to pay to service it myself. I also bought my flash from a grey importer for the savings. It's worth learning about anyway and at least then you can make an informed decision. With the reach on lenses, trying to photograph dogs running with my 24-70mm is hopeless unless they're extremely close to me which is why I got the 70-200mm. If you went with Canon they do a 70-200mm f4 non IS lens for around the $600 mark from DWI which is a great budget option for having a long zoom that's really good quality. If I'd stuck with Canon I would have gone for this lens but with IS (my hands shake a bit) but Nikon only do this lens in the much more expensive f2.8. thank you, you have been very helpful and made good points. A shorter simpler course with face to face would be better if I can find one. The camera shop said they run a 2 night course for $150 but that seemed maybe a little too short... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollipup Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 Lots of snapping going on in here! yes lots of snapping about snaps :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollipup Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 Snap Tess! :laugh: And Snook! I paid about $300 for the course I did it was cert 3 in visual arts. hmmm thanks, that seems more in my price range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollipup Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 With the grey market goods, will they tell you if it is second hand or new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlc Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Nifty 50 thread!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollipup Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 Thanks for the link tlc, after seeing that thread I am convinced I need a 50mm :) Now for the other lens, whether I buy in a kit or separately, what is a good size? The guy recommended the tamron 17-50 F 2.8. What do you think? Do I want something with bigger numbers in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollipup Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 oh and with the 50mm, looks like it is good for shooting in low light? I want to take some shots at my night time training classes and the light there is terrible for photos! Am I going to get by alright without buying a flash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollipup Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 If you're wanting to shoot action pics of dogs you're going to find it much easier with a longer zoom than 17-50mm. Something that gives you up to at least the 200mm mark preferably. I think Sigma and Tamron do 70-200mm lenses lenses if you can't afford the manufacturer's brand. :) The 50mm is good in low light but really any lens that opens up to f1.8 or f2.8 will be. The smaller the number the more light the camera lets in. That being said, the smaller the number the smaller the area in your image that will be sharp (depth of field) so even though my lenses go as wide as f2.8, I rarely shoot a dog at wider than f4 and even that usually means the nose is slightly out of focus if it's a front on shot. I don't use my flash very often but other people use it all the time. I had enough trouble getting my head around how to work the camera manually without adding an external flash in to the mix. If you shoot indoors a lot you'll probably want one but I personally wouldn't feel the need to rush out and get one straight away. It's totally up to you of course. Your camera will come with a basic flash built in to it but you won't be able to bounce it off walls etc to soften the light. So it is better to get a manufacturers lens so say if I got Nikon, better to get a Nikon lens as well? They make better than the other brands like tamron, right? Thanks again, you are so helpful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollipup Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 one of the Nikon kits comes with 18-55mm and 55-300mm lenses, and a 35mm and then I would add in the 50mm. So would that 55-300mm one be a good choice? I want something fairly versatile. I think I am leaning towards the Nikons but I don't really know why lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollipup Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 Oh and how do I tell if I am getting automatic focus? I want to make sure I get that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollipup Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 Thanks again. I went back to the store today and held the Nikon D5100, I had held the Canon yesterday. I liked the Nikon. I had another guy help me and he recommended Nikon for low light situations. I asked him about the auto focus and he said they all have it?? The deal they have on at the moment is the Nikon D5100 with the 18-55mm and 55-300mm lenses, and a 35mm lens, 2 batteries, a big gear bag, and 3 years warranty (an extra year) for $1349. And I did my tax return this morning and I'm getting $1000 back so it's perfect timing, I might be able to get it sooner than I thought. The other option I was considering was going a step up to the D7000 but to get that with the same lenses was $2599 so a bit much. The 50mm lens f1.8 is $299 and I would get that a bit down the track and make do with the 35mm to start out with. Just rang a friend and she is all Canon and so is everyone she knows so that was a bit confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollipup Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 Oh and still haven't ruled out grey imports yet :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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