Ankc No Longer Recognising Flyball Titles

[Kavik]

OK so Flyball sounds expensive to start up. But so is agility? All that equipment is expensive, and timing gates etc?

And it sounds as if people actively chose not to do ANKC even if it started at an ANKC club?

Maybe the ANKC entries could be individual and you state the team or something? (like strategic pairs) to get the levy for each dog entered.

[TigerJack]

To host a flyball comp under the agreement an AFA club can apply for a comp sanction to the AFA. (Approval of sanction means AFA insurance covers the comp.) then teams from either the AFA affiliated clubs or ANKC ones, enter via an entry form. The entry form asks if you are AFA team or ANKC team. An ANKC club could also apply to the ANKC for sanction using exactly the same form, then both AFA and ANKC teams could enter in the same manner. The shared agreement meant we all used the same rules, recognised each others judges, recognised titles, dog point accrual (for titles) was then held on the AFA database for all dogs including the non AFA member dogs. Achieve a title, apply for AFA and / or ANKC title. Up to the individual.

so while the agreement has been in place no one has had to join an ANKC state body and even if they did they didn't have to apply to the state body for their title? they just had to join and apply to the AFA?

definitely not!

If you only want the AFA title, just be a member of the AFA.

If you want the ANKC title you had to join the ANKC and sign up your dog on whatever register was relevant and you also had to actually be a member at the time you were acquiring the points. I only joined the ANKC when I started doing agility. I could not go back and claim all the flyball titles my dogs had gotten prior to that date.

[Kavik]

It seems that there was no incentive for anyone to create an ANKC affiliated flyball club or hold comps - so nobody did, and everything stayed under AFA.

[TigerJack]

It seems that there was no incentive for anyone to create an ANKC affiliated flyball club or hold comps - so nobody did, and everything stayed under AFA.

I was thinking about this more while out to lunch. I wonder if the ANKC ever told all its ANKC clubs that flyball was now under a shared agreement and so would they please now change their old practices and sanction comps via the ANKC. I don't believe they told them anything.

[Salukifan]

It seems that there was no incentive for anyone to create an ANKC affiliated flyball club or hold comps - so nobody did, and everything stayed under AFA.

This is my understanding also. Of course none of this was problematic while the AFA remained affiliated.

[TigerJack]

Meh..

The AFA just wanted more people to be able to access the sport and more comps for everyone.....

So exactly what/how did the AFA act to assist the ANKC to accredit and train judges and run comps under the ANKC banner.

After all, they were the affiliate with the knowledge, judges, members and equipment that could make it happen. Did they do anything in that context?

That was outlined in TJ's post.

Also I will point out that the ANKC didnt have a problem with the affiliation agreement- just the insurance so not sure why anyone else would have a problem with it......

yup, anyone who wanted to be a judge was welcome to apply to the existing AFA judge training programme and come learn under AFA auspices and they would go through the programme and get qualified. Nobody applied. Doesn't look like ANKC ever communicated this to any ANKC clubs to put people forward.

[Rebanne]

To host a flyball comp under the agreement an AFA club can apply for a comp sanction to the AFA. (Approval of sanction means AFA insurance covers the comp.) then teams from either the AFA affiliated clubs or ANKC ones, enter via an entry form. The entry form asks if you are AFA team or ANKC team. An ANKC club could also apply to the ANKC for sanction using exactly the same form, then both AFA and ANKC teams could enter in the same manner. The shared agreement meant we all used the same rules, recognised each others judges, recognised titles, dog point accrual (for titles) was then held on the AFA database for all dogs including the non AFA member dogs. Achieve a title, apply for AFA and / or ANKC title. Up to the individual.

so while the agreement has been in place no one has had to join an ANKC state body and even if they did they didn't have to apply to the state body for their title? they just had to join and apply to the AFA?

definitely not!

If you only want the AFA title, just be a member of the AFA.

If you want the ANKC title you had to join the ANKC and sign up your dog on whatever register was relevant and you also had to actually be a member at the time you were acquiring the points. I only joined the ANKC when I started doing agility. I could not go back and claim all the flyball titles my dogs had gotten prior to that date.

so are the titles different then?

[Sayreovi]

so are the titles different then?

Nope

I had applied for two of mine to get the same title as they were listed in the AFA. Both got approved even though the titles were the 3rd and 4th ones along and I hadn't applied for previous titles with Dogs Vic. I don't know how Dogs Vic got clarification on whether that title was correct.

[TigerJack]

To host a flyball comp under the agreement an AFA club can apply for a comp sanction to the AFA. (Approval of sanction means AFA insurance covers the comp.) then teams from either the AFA affiliated clubs or ANKC ones, enter via an entry form. The entry form asks if you are AFA team or ANKC team. An ANKC club could also apply to the ANKC for sanction using exactly the same form, then both AFA and ANKC teams could enter in the same manner. The shared agreement meant we all used the same rules, recognised each others judges, recognised titles, dog point accrual (for titles) was then held on the AFA database for all dogs including the non AFA member dogs. Achieve a title, apply for AFA and / or ANKC title. Up to the individual.

so while the agreement has been in place no one has had to join an ANKC state body and even if they did they didn't have to apply to the state body for their title? they just had to join and apply to the AFA?

definitely not!

If you only want the AFA title, just be a member of the AFA.

If you want the ANKC title you had to join the ANKC and sign up your dog on whatever register was relevant and you also had to actually be a member at the time you were acquiring the points. I only joined the ANKC when I started doing agility. I could not go back and claim all the flyball titles my dogs had gotten prior to that date.

so are the titles different then?

no, the names are the same. FD, FDX etc but AFA ones come on an AFA cert and cannot be listed on the ANKC pedigree (unless you also apply to the ANKC.) You then apply to the ANKC and pay another fee and that one will come on the ANKC certificate and also be listed on your pedigree/rego cert. Don't know about other states but in NSW I am told that people had to apply and pay for the AFA one in order to then apply for the ANKC one. I guess so they had a cert to prove they had the points. (I guess kind of like submitting your agility qualies.) Bit rough as you don't seem able to choose to apply either to the AFA or the ANKC but had to pay for both if you wanted the ANKC recognition and cert.

[Sayreovi]

Must be different in Victoria then TigerJack or the person doing it didn't really care :laugh:

I've never applied for a title with the AFA even though I have the points, and I can't remember now what I put on the ANKC title application as proof but it was accepted :laugh:

ETA: Actually thinking back, I think I put the points that I can see when I log in to my account for each dog.

Edited July 5, 2012 by tollersowned

[TigerJack]

Must be different in Victoria then TigerJack or the person doing it didn't really care :laugh:

I've never applied for a title with the AFA even though I have the points, and I can't remember now what I put on the ANKC title application as proof but it was accepted :laugh:

ETA: Actually thinking back, I think I put the points that I can see when I log in to my account for each dog.

you're lucky! Someone I know did similar to you and applied to dogs nsw, got knocked back and had to get the AFA title then send that to dogs nsw. she only wanted the dogs nsw one!

[Paulp]

Personally my experience with fly ballers have not been that good- I enquired with 2 clubs about starting and was

told that they were only after small, fast dogs or border collies. Perhaps unlucky and I have met other people who do fly ball who are very nice. I've never been to an agility club that discriminated by breed.... If anything they tend to really support people with more unusual breeds

I think you have been unlucky to approach the wrong two clubs. Whilst a fast height dog is gold there are always places in slower teams which are just as competitive thanks to the way teams are sorted into divisions in competitions. And you don't need collies to be fast, our team recently set a club record of 19.322 seconds with a staffordshire terrier, a labrador, a labrador X golden retriever and an ACD cross.

[Paulp]

Victoria is similar. Most of our comps are also in conjunction with agricultural shows, so we get heaps of spectators and there is usually someone commentating as well so the public know what the hell is going on :p

There are also several demo's held throughout the year at smaller shows and events, this includes the Royal and Pet Expo.

This year there will be a competition held at the Royal for the first time and I expect the crowd to be huge, agility usually draws a crowd but flyball has a competition aspect where people can cheer on individual dogs or the team.

As Jumabaar said, our Nationals are held with other big events. Dandenong show (for the Nationals next year) is a pretty big show and always get a massive crowd!

I know SA, do alot of demo's throughout the year to gain more interest and have increased to several teams. Same as Tasmania who got enough people involved to send across I think 2? teams last year, it was their first ever comp :D

Flyball is very popular with the Ag shows as a spectacle. Our club has been approached by several shows to put on comps or demos and the Dandy show society highly value our involvement in their show. I meet quite a few people who have seen flyball at these shows and they are always very excited about the sport.

[DeltaCharlie]

I didn't go looking for the posts so haven't quoted them, but to the people in WA the AFA have tried to organise seminars for at least the last 4 years, possibly longer, to try and get the sport up and running over there but nobody has taken up the offer. There was a DOLer who had trained dogs already (I think she had previously lived in SA or Vic) and had since moved to Esperance who was prepared to get involved too and was prepared to travel to Perth to get the sport running but there just wasn't enough interest. Lots of talk, but nobody really keen enough when push came to shove.

Perhaps now is the time to revisit it? There would be plenty of people happy to help out if need be.

[SparkyTansy]

I'd love to give flyball a go but no way could I commit to it sadly

[OSoSwift]

I didn't go looking for the posts so haven't quoted them, but to the people in WA the AFA have tried to organise seminars for at least the last 4 years, possibly longer, to try and get the sport up and running over there but nobody has taken up the offer. There was a DOLer who had trained dogs already (I think she had previously lived in SA or Vic) and had since moved to Esperance who was prepared to get involved too and was prepared to travel to Perth to get the sport running but there just wasn't enough interest. Lots of talk, but nobody really keen enough when push came to shove.

Perhaps now is the time to revisit it? There would be plenty of people happy to help out if need be.

She moved to a town 200kms from Esperance and stayed around 6 to 8 months then has moved back east again.

[OSoSwift]

The ANKC title is important so that it can be recorded on the pedigree.

But you cannot expect a title gained under an unafilliated body to be recognised on the pedigree. That is the pitfall of participating in an activity that is not offically sanctioned.

My Dobes had titles that they gained that were not ANKC recognised but were highly regarded within their breed. And advertising included these titles and no they were not on their ANKC pedigree but the results were easily found and verified via their national breed organisation. I am not sure why having the flyball title as a recognised ANKC title is so important when titles gained by passing temperment tests and achieving titles in at least three different areas to gain a ROM were not ANKC recognised titles but still very important for the breed and everyone coped just fine with that.

By all means get the ANKC affiliation as it is great for the sport but I think using the line of it is important for the title to show up on ANKC pedigrees lacks any base.

I hope it does get recognition but I also think more work needs to be done to gain that recognition.

It is because the pedigree of a dog is the official record of that dogs achievements. Accordingly ALL titles it gains (na matter where they come from) should be recordable on the official pedigree that is maintained by ANKC.

If it isn't on the pedigree, than in three or four generations is anyone going to remember that that dog ALSO had a bunch of other titles.

The ANKC are a registry first. They need to stop being so bloody minded and difficult and do what a registry is SUPPOSED to do and register things.

Affiliation or where the title comes from shouldn't matter at all.

Yes they should all be recordable, I agree, however in the Dobe world there are some that are not and I can guarentee that the titles aren't "lost" after a few generations. They are listed on places like DOL profiles and quite often appear in show catalogues.

So I fully agree it would be good to have all titles gained on their pedigree but it isn't the end of the world if it doesn't happen.

[koalathebear]

Personally my experience with fly ballers have not been that good- I enquired with 2 clubs about starting and was told that they were only after small, fast dogs or border collies. Perhaps unlucky and I have met other people who do fly ball who are very nice. I've never been to an agility club that discriminated by breed.... If anything they tend to really support people with more unusual breeds

Not chiming in about the main topic but I just wanted to say that that's such a shame about the clubs. I posted photos from this year's Canberra show here. The Lab/GR cross you see is from our dog club - by all accounts he's doing well and by now should have his first or second title. He's a valued member of the team :)

[Sayreovi]

I didn't go looking for the posts so haven't quoted them, but to the people in WA the AFA have tried to organise seminars for at least the last 4 years, possibly longer, to try and get the sport up and running over there but nobody has taken up the offer. There was a DOLer who had trained dogs already (I think she had previously lived in SA or Vic) and had since moved to Esperance who was prepared to get involved too and was prepared to travel to Perth to get the sport running but there just wasn't enough interest. Lots of talk, but nobody really keen enough when push came to shove.

Perhaps now is the time to revisit it? There would be plenty of people happy to help out if need be.

She moved to a town 200kms from Esperance and stayed around 6 to 8 months then has moved back east again.

This sounds like me? :laugh:

Edited July 7, 2012 by tollersowned

[OSoSwift]

I didn't go looking for the posts so haven't quoted them, but to the people in WA the AFA have tried to organise seminars for at least the last 4 years, possibly longer, to try and get the sport up and running over there but nobody has taken up the offer. There was a DOLer who had trained dogs already (I think she had previously lived in SA or Vic) and had since moved to Esperance who was prepared to get involved too and was prepared to travel to Perth to get the sport running but there just wasn't enough interest. Lots of talk, but nobody really keen enough when push came to shove.

Perhaps now is the time to revisit it? There would be plenty of people happy to help out if need be.

She moved to a town 200kms from Esperance and stayed around 6 to 8 months then has moved back east again.

This sounds like me? :laugh:

:D