Salukifan Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 This is the structure of the ANKC Flyballers have a Committee and a Rep. Seems to me Raelene Hedger is the "go to" person for information on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) I don't understand why really... its not like the ANKC have ever bothered to actually host a competition in all this time. So all they have had to do is sit around and take money for people's title applications. The ANKC don't host ANY competitions - affiliates and CC's do. I don't call what's outlined below a particularly sensible approach to the insurance issue, do you? As I understand it the ANKC raised two issues at separate times:-First a concern that ANKC members would not be covered if they volunteered at an AFA event.Second that AFA members would not be covered if they competed at an ANKC event. With regard to the first issue, it was proposed by the AFA that the ANKC and AFA simply instruct their members that they are not to volunteer at competitions hosted by the other organisation And when held on ANKC affiliated club grounds, and members of the club have to turn up to provide access and staff the canteen, exactly how would that work?? And more importantly how does that engender enhanced cooperation between the sport and the wider ANKC membership??? Edited July 3, 2012 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I am yet to hear ANY argument put forward by the ANKC that cannot be satisfied by using simple logic. And if the insurance hasn't changed since the original agreement and the insurance is the same as held by dogs nsw, how can there be a problem now? Dogs NSW has always said that flyball competitions won't be held at Erskine Park grounds mainly I was told because of insurance issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarLapyz Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) This is the structure of the ANKC Flyballers have a Committee and a Rep. Seems to me Raelene Hedger is the "go to" person for information on this one. I am aware of the structure and the way it is set-up and run is stupid. They are near impossible to contact, slow to disseminate information and useless at communication. The fact that there is a body in existence, that has the final say over all of the rules and regulations that affect our sports that ACTIVELY does not engage with it's members is ridiculous. The ANKC effectively directly refusing to directly deal with it's stakeholders, for no reason other than they are all too lazy (or too stuck in their ways) to hold a few extra meetings and write some emails. Edit: It's also nice of them to publish that list of names with NO CONTACT details so you can't actually call anyone and have a chat!!! Edited July 3, 2012 by StarLapyz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarLapyz Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I am yet to hear ANY argument put forward by the ANKC that cannot be satisfied by using simple logic. And if the insurance hasn't changed since the original agreement and the insurance is the same as held by dogs nsw, how can there be a problem now? Dogs NSW has always said that flyball competitions won't be held at Erskine Park grounds mainly I was told because of insurance issues. Flyball demo's have been held at Erskine Park. As far as I know, no one has ever asked to host a comp there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) This is the structure of the ANKC Flyballers have a Committee and a Rep. Seems to me Raelene Hedger is the "go to" person for information on this one. I am aware of the structure and the way it is set-up and run is stupid. They are near impossible to contact, slow to disseminate information and useless at communication. The fact that there is a body in existence, that has the final say over all of the rules and regulations that affect our sports that ACTIVELY does not engage with it's members is ridiculous. The ANKC effectively directly refusing to directly deal with it's stakeholders, for no reason other than they are all too lazy (or too stuck in their ways) to hold a few extra meetings and write some emails. And again I ask, who is "they". If you think the ANKC is so "stupid" and "ridiculous" one wonders why folk are getting their knickers in a twist about affiliation? The ANKC isn't going to change overnight to accommodate the views of one affiliate... as I see it it's either amend your proposal to accommodate the ANKC's concerns or forget about affiliation. Or, as every other performance sport has done, move away from the AFA and get the sport recognised directly. Edited July 3, 2012 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarLapyz Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) I don't understand why really... its not like the ANKC have ever bothered to actually host a competition in all this time. So all they have had to do is sit around and take money for people's title applications. The ANKC don't host ANY competitions - affiliates and CC's do. I don't call what's outlined below a particularly sensible approach to the insurance issue, do you? As I understand it the ANKC raised two issues at separate times:-First a concern that ANKC members would not be covered if they volunteered at an AFA event.Second that AFA members would not be covered if they competed at an ANKC event. With regard to the first issue, it was proposed by the AFA that the ANKC and AFA simply instruct their members that they are not to volunteer at competitions hosted by the other organisation And when held on ANKC affiliated club grounds, and members of the club have to turn up to provide access and staff the canteen, exactly how would that work?? And more importantly how does that engender enhanced cooperation between the sport and the wider ANKC membership??? This is an issue with the TYPE OF COVERAGE. ANYONE attending an AFA event is covered by public liability insurance. This is the normal insurance that everyone is required to have and covers anyone at an AFA event if they suffer loss or injury due to negligence. The AFA also has ADDITIONAL cover for its members if they are accidentally injured while volunteering at an AFA sanctioned event. This insurance is not required, it is an additional benefit that the AFA provides to its members. The ANKC suggesting that this cover should be extended to their members is ridiculous. The volunteer cover is one of the benefits of being an AFA member. If they ANKC want's to they are perfectly capable of taking out similar insurance to cover their own members. Edited July 4, 2012 by StarLapyz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I am yet to hear ANY argument put forward by the ANKC that cannot be satisfied by using simple logic. And if the insurance hasn't changed since the original agreement and the insurance is the same as held by dogs nsw, how can there be a problem now? Dogs NSW has always said that flyball competitions won't be held at Erskine Park grounds mainly I was told because of insurance issues. Flyball demo's have been held at Erskine Park. As far as I know, no one has ever asked to host a comp there. But not competitions. As far as I know flyball does not fall under any of the Dogs NSW committees. Does the ANKC flyball committee have a Dogs NSW representative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 This is an issue with the TYPE OF COVERAGE.ANYONE attending an AFA event is covered by public liability insurance. This is the normal insurance that everyone is required to have and covers anyone at an AFA event if they suffer loss or injury due to negligence. The AFA also has ADDITIONAL cover for its members if they are accidentally injured while volunteering at an AFA sanctioned event. This insurance is not required, it is an additional benefit that the AFA provides to its members. The ANKC suggesting that this cover should be extended to their members is ridiculous. The volunteer cover is one of the benefits of being an AFA member. If they ANKC want's to they are perfectly capable of taking out similar insurance to cover their own members. Perhaps the ANKC is wondering why it should have to pay for additional insurance for its members volunteering at AFA events when they don't have to for any other performance sport. I certainly am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) This is the structure of the ANKC Flyballers have a Committee and a Rep. Seems to me Raelene Hedger is the "go to" person for information on this one. I am aware of the structure and the way it is set-up and run is stupid. They are near impossible to contact, slow to disseminate information and useless at communication. The fact that there is a body in existence, that has the final say over all of the rules and regulations that affect our sports that ACTIVELY does not engage with it's members is ridiculous. The ANKC effectively directly refusing to directly deal with it's stakeholders, for no reason other than they are all too lazy (or too stuck in their ways) to hold a few extra meetings and write some emails. And again I ask, who is "they". If you think the ANKC is so "stupid" one wonders why folk are getting their knickers in a twist about affiliation? The ANKC isn't going to change overnight to accommodate the views of one affiliate... as I see it it's either amend your proposal to accommodate the ANKC's concerns or forget about affiliation. Or, as every other performance sport has done, move away from the AFA and get the sport recognised directly. They is the ANKC. We have our knickers in a twist because we own and breed performance dogs who prove their worth in and out of the show ring and the sports rings. AND its our sport. We are members who are not being represented. Why wouldn't we get upset that hard earned titles are not being recognised (kinda like the ANKC trying to remove schutzhund titles from imported dogs in 2010 IMO) I hope that the ANKC never decides to cut a sport your involved in..... Edited July 4, 2012 by Jumabaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) They is the ANKC. We have our knickers in a twist because we own and breed performance dogs who prove their worth in and out of the show ring and the sports rings. AND its our sport. We are members who are not being represented. Why wouldn't we get upset that hard earned titles are not being recognised (kinda like the ANKC trying to remove schutzhund titles from imported dogs in 2010 IMO) I hope that the ANKC never decides to cut a sport your involved in..... If it did, I'd hope I'd stay calm enough not to assume a cloak of martrydom, engage in a campaign of publically belittling the ANKC here and on FB and to focus on the issues, not blame the people. :) Seriously, if the AFA wants back in then it needs to engender support from the wider ANKC, not piss them off. And you'd be amazed who reads what's out there on the web. Time for cool heads and a careful re-examination of the ANKC's concerns. In the meantime, it might be wise to lay off the abuse. Edited July 4, 2012 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarLapyz Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 They is the ANKC. We have our knickers in a twist because we own and breed performance dogs who prove their worth in and out of the show ring and the sports rings. AND its our sport. We are members who are not being represented. Why wouldn't we get upset that hard earned titles are not being recognised (kinda like the ANKC trying to remove schutzhund titles from imported dogs in 2010 IMO) I hope that the ANKC never decides to cut a sport your involved in..... If it did, I'd hope I'd stay calm enough not to assume a cloak of martrydom, engage in a campaign of publically belittling the ANKC here and on FB and to focus on the issues, not blame the people. :) Seriously, if the AFA wants back in then it needs to engender support from the wider ANKC, not piss them off. And you'd be amazed who reads what's out there on the web. Time for cool heads and a careful re-examination of the ANKC's concerns. In the meantime, it might be wise to lay off the abuse. The issue with the AFA is FAR FROM the only example of ANKC incompetence and a stubborn reluctance to be in any way flexible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) They is the ANKC. We have our knickers in a twist because we own and breed performance dogs who prove their worth in and out of the show ring and the sports rings. AND its our sport. We are members who are not being represented. Why wouldn't we get upset that hard earned titles are not being recognised (kinda like the ANKC trying to remove schutzhund titles from imported dogs in 2010 IMO) I hope that the ANKC never decides to cut a sport your involved in..... If it did, I'd hope I'd stay calm enough not to assume a cloak of martrydom, engage in a campaign of publically belittling the ANKC here and on FB and to focus on the issues, not blame the people. :) Seriously, if the AFA wants back in then it needs to engender support from the wider ANKC, not piss them off. And you'd be amazed who reads what's out there on the web. Time for cool heads and a careful re-examination of the ANKC's concerns. In the meantime, it might be wise to lay off the abuse. The issue with the AFA is FAR FROM the only example of ANKC incompetence and a stubborn reluctance to be in any way flexible. Yep, that's the way to get recognition back again... The organisation is far from perfect... but this really isn't helping the AFA at all. If I were the AFA, I'd be attempting to gag my members because this is hardly constructive. As I said before, if this is how the AFA views the ANKC, one wonders WHY affilition is desired at all. Edited July 4, 2012 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 This is the structure of the ANKC Flyballers have a Committee and a Rep. Seems to me Raelene Hedger is the "go to" person for information on this one. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding as to just who is a member of the ANKC. The state bodies are members of the ANKC not individuals hence the direction to go to a state body for information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarLapyz Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 They is the ANKC. We have our knickers in a twist because we own and breed performance dogs who prove their worth in and out of the show ring and the sports rings. AND its our sport. We are members who are not being represented. Why wouldn't we get upset that hard earned titles are not being recognised (kinda like the ANKC trying to remove schutzhund titles from imported dogs in 2010 IMO) I hope that the ANKC never decides to cut a sport your involved in..... If it did, I'd hope I'd stay calm enough not to assume a cloak of martrydom, engage in a campaign of publically belittling the ANKC here and on FB and to focus on the issues, not blame the people. :) Seriously, if the AFA wants back in then it needs to engender support from the wider ANKC, not piss them off. And you'd be amazed who reads what's out there on the web. Time for cool heads and a careful re-examination of the ANKC's concerns. In the meantime, it might be wise to lay off the abuse. The issue with the AFA is FAR FROM the only example of ANKC incompetence and a stubborn reluctance to be in any way flexible. Yep, that's the way to get recognition back again... The organisation is far from perfect... but this really isn't helping the AFA at all. If I were the AFA, I'd be attempting to gag my members because this is hardly constructive. As I said before, if this is how the AFA views the ANKC, one wonders WHY affilition is desired at all. Cause that is how you improve and organisation, you sweep all of the failings and f*** ups and mistakes under a rug and never talk about them and make no attempt to fix them or improve anything. That is what has been happening with the ANKC for a vary long time. I make no apologies for calling a spade and spade and also see no reason why the AFA should suck up to an organisation that has thus far failed to act with any kind of professionalism or integrity. The ANKC should own up that is made a mistake, and renew the agreement. I highly doubt this will happen. But hopefully, this little incident will open a few more eyes and eventually we might get some actual reform at the ANKC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarLapyz Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 This is the structure of the ANKC Flyballers have a Committee and a Rep. Seems to me Raelene Hedger is the "go to" person for information on this one. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding as to just who is a member of the ANKC. The state bodies are members of the ANKC not individuals hence the direction to go to a state body for information. Yes, but the state bodies can't actually DO anything, so it's rather pointless going to them isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) They is the ANKC. We have our knickers in a twist because we own and breed performance dogs who prove their worth in and out of the show ring and the sports rings. AND its our sport. We are members who are not being represented. Why wouldn't we get upset that hard earned titles are not being recognised (kinda like the ANKC trying to remove schutzhund titles from imported dogs in 2010 IMO) I hope that the ANKC never decides to cut a sport your involved in..... If it did, I'd hope I'd stay calm enough not to assume a cloak of martrydom, engage in a campaign of publically belittling the ANKC here and on FB and to focus on the issues, not blame the people. :) Seriously, if the AFA wants back in then it needs to engender support from the wider ANKC, not piss them off. And you'd be amazed who reads what's out there on the web. Time for cool heads and a careful re-examination of the ANKC's concerns. In the meantime, it might be wise to lay off the abuse. The issue with the AFA is FAR FROM the only example of ANKC incompetence and a stubborn reluctance to be in any way flexible. Yep, that's the way to get recognition back again... The organisation is far from perfect... but this really isn't helping the AFA at all. If I were the AFA, I'd be attempting to gag my members because this is hardly constructive. As I said before, if this is how the AFA views the ANKC, one wonders WHY affilition is desired at all. Gaging members wow thats a great way to go forward Your views do not represent the ANKC/your state body, my views do not represent the AFA. Edited July 4, 2012 by Jumabaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Gaging members wow thats a great way to go forward Your views do not represent the ANKC/your state body, my views do not represent the AFA. If members are going to abuse the organisation you're trying to negotiate than a request that people keep their negative opinions off social media DURING THE RENEGOTIATION is nothign more than good sense. Do you really want the AFA coming back to the negotiation table with the other side bristling with indignation at all the names they've been called?? StarLapz: The ANKC should own up that is made a mistake, and renew the agreement. I highly doubt this will happen. But hopefully, this little incident will open a few more eyes and eventually we might get some actual reform at the ANKC. The AFA won't gain a one iota of reform at the ANKC WHILE IT'S NOT A MEMBER. One step at a time folks. First get back in THEN create impetus for change. I don't think the ANKC is perfect but I do think that you will definitely have a better chance at regaining affiliation AND achieving change by creating a network of supporters, not a network of antagonists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 The insurance issue is a legitimate one imo. It caused heaps of trouble in the horsey world for a while, with different groups not being covered at events. Just saying to instruct members without insurance not to help isn't really good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) Gaging members wow thats a great way to go forward Your views do not represent the ANKC/your state body, my views do not represent the AFA. If members are going to abuse the organisation you're trying to negotiate than a request that people keep their negative opinions off social media DURING THE RENEGOTIATION is nothign more than good sense. Do you really want the AFA coming back to the negotiation table with the other side bristling with indignation at all the names they've been called?? OK this is where the wires have been crossed. There is no renegotiation happening!! We sat silent while renegotiations happened and it didn't work. Edited July 4, 2012 by Jumabaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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