Ankc No Longer Recognising Flyball Titles

[Jumabaar]

Her point still stands. The ANKC should be actively chasing new sports and being the primary properter of them. Not forcing new sports to jump through umpteen hoops to get recognised.

Actively adopting and promoting new sports, as well as offering an all inclusive registry for dogs in Australia, would be much more in line with their mission than what they currently do.

Their Mission

To promote excellence in breeding, showing, trialling, obedience and other canine related activities and the ownership of temperamentally and physically sound pure bred dogs by responsible individuals across Australia.

To promote responsible dog ownership and encourage State Member Bodies to put in place programs to that effect.

To act as spokesperson on all canine related activities on a National basis on behalf of State Member Bodies and to pledge assistance and support to the respective State Member Bodies.

The key word there is 'promote'. Not organise. Promote.

Whatever sports there are have to fall under their framework. It's up to dog sports to like it or lump it. I say this without judgement on the sports and I agree that as an organisation the ANKC isn't a friend winner but that goes to the people who are in the ANKC, who in turn are in the state bodies. If the state bodies are going 'Not our fault then it should be pointed out that a representative of the state body is on the ANKC committee. You can't go wrong in making friends but with some people and organisations it takes more effort.

Promote-

Further the progress of (something, esp. a cause, venture, or aim); support or actively encourage.

I can't really see any active encouragement in the EARLY stages of these sports. There is a new sport currently starting up- if I were the ANKC/their member body I would be trying to jump on now and be involved with THEIR committee/organisation right now at the grass roots rather than sitting passively until approached. I have seen this approach work (which is why I bring the idea up).

Hopefully you will be hearing something along these crazy radical out there ideas in the future..... anyone who would like to thrash the idea of being proactive can PM me :)

Edited July 4, 2012 by Jumabaar

[Sayreovi]

I don't mind either way, having the AFA and ANKC tied hasn't done anything for me.

I've barely given it a second thought until now as I would have liked my girl to have at least one title officially recognized so they could have given us warning and time to send in applications. That being said I still list her everywhere as having the title and even put in on entries (show and performance) and it does show up in the catalogue.

Must be extremely disappointing for those who worked hard to get the ANKC to recognize titles to begin with though

[Jumabaar]

I don't mind either way, having the AFA and ANKC tied hasn't done anything for me.

I've barely given it a second thought until now as I would have liked my girl to have at least one title officially recognized so they could have given us warning and time to send in applications. That being said I still list her everywhere as having the title and even put in on entries (show and performance) and it does show up in the catalogue.

Must be extremely disappointing for those who worked hard to get the ANKC to recognize titles to begin with though

Titles earned before July 1 will be (should be) recognised according to DogsNSW so send them in.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Jumabaar

[Salukifan]

Jumbaar:

The ANKC should be actively chasing new sports and being the primary properter of them. Not forcing new sports to jump through umpteen hoops to get recognised.

The ANKC doesn't have the funding to employ people to do this. It has always and will always rely on the efforts of enthusiastic volunteers. You can probably put recognition of ANY dog sport by the ANKC down to the efforts of a handful of people and that isn't going to change.

I think the expectation that an organisation that is essentially exists mainly on paoper can do any of this is simply unrealistic.

How does a new sport without a set of rules and a framework for competition and training and accreditation of judges get recognised. Those are the hoops you have to jump through.

I really do wonder if people piling these expectations on the ANKC to be more proactive have a decent working knowledge of its structure and resources. Outside of the Canine Controls and some research funding, it has zip.

The ANKC is its members and its members that must do all of what's proposed here. Asking people who aren't interested in a new sport to take the lead is simply not going to happen.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[StarLapyz]

Sledding/weight pull are in the process of finalising rules etc.

Her point still stands. The ANKC should be actively chasing new sports and being the primary properter of them. Not forcing new sports to jump through umpteen hoops to get recognised.

Why are they jumping through hoops? Each member state has to agree on the rules and that takes time. I would much rather the rules I compete under are decided by people involved in the sport rather than an individual who has no interest in it.

ETA A lot goes on during the year at state levels to do with the ANKC committees that unless you are on a committee you don't usually hear about.

Well I have made some approaches so it will be very interesting to see how hard this is to do and how long it takes and how helpful board members at the state and ANKC level are.

As for rules, nearly ALL sports adopted here are actively competed in other countries. It can't be that hard to simply copy the rules over and adopt them. You can always amend them later if an issue comes up.

[Steve]

I don't mind either way, having the AFA and ANKC tied hasn't done anything for me.

I've barely given it a second thought until now as I would have liked my girl to have at least one title officially recognized so they could have given us warning and time to send in applications. That being said I still list her everywhere as having the title and even put in on entries (show and performance) and it does show up in the catalogue.

Must be extremely disappointing for those who worked hard to get the ANKC to recognize titles to begin with though

Adding the titles to a pedigree ensures that everyone who is coming behind and considering a dog for breeding into the future can see the qualification and take that into account when deciding on which dog to use.

Fact is you can go out and get any qualification you want but only those which the ANKC recognise will be added to the pedigree system

At the moment they are not recogising these ones so the only way you can do anything about that is to play by their rules and do as they say - because they wont change the rules just for you. Or you can use another registry to enable others who want to access the info into the future to add the qualifications which doesn't have the same criteria for the info to be added.

[Janba]

Well I have made some approaches so it will be very interesting to see how hard this is to do and how long it takes and how helpful board members at the state and ANKC level are.

As for rules, nearly ALL sports adopted here are actively competed in other countries. It can't be that hard to simply copy the rules over and adopt them. You can always amend them later if an issue comes up.

The rules also have to comply with ANKC regulations.

I hope you are successful and put your money where your mouth and do the hard work to get flyball up and running under the ANKC.

[TigerJack]

So, interested to hear what the final reasons really are. Will have to do some checking. I suspect that seeing as no ANKC affiliated club ever decided to host a flyball comp then really there is no reason to continue the agreement. Title issue being the down side of ceasing it but that never bothered me anyway. I suspect that most ANKC members who took up ANKC titles were already members of AFA clubs who continued to host flyball comps via the AFA side of things. There does not ever seem to have been any publicising of the fact that ANKC affiliated could take up flyball without being part of the AFA so I guess there was no motivation. Anyone in an ANKC affiliated club who wanted to do flyball as well went and joined a flyball specific club. Those ANKC affiliates who do also do flyball all appear to choose to run their flyball comps via the AFA pathway.

That's simply not true.

The ACT Companion Dog club trains and hosts comps in 5 ANKC recognised sports including flyball. It has hosted many flyball comps.. and allowed their equipment to be used at flyball comps in two states. It is not, nor has it ever been a flyball specific club and frankly I think its a model that should have been more widely followed. Membership in flyball grew for the most part from club members who joined for pet dog training and looked beyond to the ANKC dog sports.

IMO the AFA structure of affiliation within the ANKC has encouraged many flyballers to remain apart from the broader dog training clubs.. the sport did not "grow" from obedience here in Australia as most of the others did and there isn't a lot of overlap between flyball folk and the other sports to the extent that obedience overlaps with most. Well, not at my club anyway.

In fact I'd describe the attitude of some flyballers at my club towards other dog sports followers as "hostile". Stickers belittling agility on their cars are evidence of that.

Haredown Whippets - you are not correct. Yes CDC does flyball. Yes CDC is ANKC affiliated. However, they have never held an ANKC flyball comp. Every comp they have ever run has been run via AFA sanction under AFA affiliation. I have been AFA rep for some of them. The shared agreement for rules etc would never really have affected a club like CDC who was already doing flyball via AFA when the agreement came into force. The hope was that other ANKC affiliated clubs might also choose to take on flyball without the need to actually affiliate with the AFA.

Maybe your club does have multiple disciplines within it but not all do. My own flyball club is solely flyball, many Flyball clubs are. Your comments on attitude are really not very constructive and could also be construed as hostile. Flyballers take alot of crap from people in other disciplines too and I don't think any of it is particularly warranted or helpful. Many flyballers I know also do agility and obedience so I am not sure why you think there is little overlap. Maybe just that's your club.

The AFA IMO does not have anything to do with encouraging flyballers to remain apart from broader dog clubs. Nor should they be required to encourage people to go join bigger multidisciplinary dog clubs. (The agreement was to encourage existing ANKC non-flyball clubs to perhaps include it in their club's activities.) Withr espect to what club you choose, you go to clubs that exist in your area and some of us are quite restricted in what we have access to. In the ACT you are extraordinarily lucky to have so many dog clubs in such close proximity all with multiple disciplines. It isn't the same elswhere. There are certainly clubs like your own that eventually include flyball or rally O or other things but there are also clubs that started out simply to do flyball, set up by a small group of enthusiasts. My own club did that. Most of these clubs pre-date the shared agreement.

I still don't know why the agreement has been ceased but really, it was already recognised by the ANKC. They agreed on rules etc, judge training, everything. Sadly it appears that the only use made of the agreement was for people to apply for titles. It was never up to the AFA to promote ANKC clubs to start doing flyball or running their own comps but the facility was there for ANKC clubs to do that if they chose as it had been recognised. The ANKC might not have publicised it was available. Not sure.

I know people are disappointed about titles but the dogs don't give a toss. If people are so concerned tabout the continued ability to access titles then there is no real need to reinvent the wheel surely. An agreement was already in place, no need to start over. instead try to extend the agreement.

[TigerJack]

Sledding/weight pull are in the process of finalising rules etc.

Her point still stands. The ANKC should be actively chasing new sports and being the primary properter of them. Not forcing new sports to jump through umpteen hoops to get recognised.

Why are they jumping through hoops? Each member state has to agree on the rules and that takes time. I would much rather the rules I compete under are decided by people involved in the sport rather than an individual who has no interest in it.

ETA A lot goes on during the year at state levels to do with the ANKC committees that unless you are on a committee you don't usually hear about.

Flyball already jumped all those hoops. A big part of why the shared agreement took so long was getting approval from every single state body.

[TigerJack]

Well I have made some approaches so it will be very interesting to see how hard this is to do and how long it takes and how helpful board members at the state and ANKC level are.

As for rules, nearly ALL sports adopted here are actively competed in other countries. It can't be that hard to simply copy the rules over and adopt them. You can always amend them later if an issue comes up.

The rules also have to comply with ANKC regulations.

I hope you are successful and put your money where your mouth and do the hard work to get flyball up and running under the ANKC.

Janba we did all the hard work. We did modify our existing rules over and over until ANKC was happy with everything in it. It was no easy task I assure you. AFA committee spent literally years in negotiations. Then all states had to sign off on it before it was put into place.

[Salukifan]

Haredown Whippets - you are not correct. Yes CDC does flyball. Yes CDC is ANKC affiliated. However, they have never held an ANKC flyball comp.Every comp they have ever run has been run via AFA sanction under AFA affiliation.

From what I can gather then, no one did. No flyball club ever sought to organise a comp under ANKC rules? No flyball club ever paid fees to the ANKC via competitions? Obedience, agility, conformation pay the CC $1 per entry. But now the ANKC is expected to pick up the ball and run with it? Sounds like the arrangement was a bit one sided to me.

The hope was that other ANKC affiliated clubs might also choose to take on flyball without the need to actually affiliate with the AFA.

Without flyballers to drive the process in any club, it wasn't going to happen was it? The AFA as an alternative organisation for competitions removed the need to do so. What the ANKC appears to have been was an opportunity to get titles on pedigrees and that's it.

Maybe your club does have multiple disciplines within it but not all do. My own flyball club is solely flyball, many Flyball clubs are. Your comments on attitude are really not very constructive and could also be construed as hostile. Flyballers take alot of crap from people in other disciplines too and I don't think any of it is particularly warranted or helpful. Many flyballers I know also do agility and obedience so I am not sure why you think there is little overlap. Maybe just that's your club.

Maybe it is just at my club. I've never seen a sticker that said "x sport - for dogs that can't do flyball" though.

There are certainly clubs like your own that eventually include flyball or rally O or other things but there are also clubs that started out simply to do flyball, set up by a small group of enthusiasts. My own club did that. Most of these clubs pre-date the shared agreement.

What do you mean "eventually"? The multijurisdictional clubs here (or more precisely their members) have been at the forefront of the development and promotion of DWD and RallyO for a start.

I know people are disappointed about titles but the dogs don't give a toss. If people are so concerned tabout the continued ability to access titles then there is no real need to reinvent the wheel surely. An agreement was already in place, no need to start over. instead try to extend the agreement.

They did. It failed. The question for the sport is now where to from here? In the context of ANKC recognition of the sport, if the enthusiasts within the flyball community don't act for themselves, my guess is the anwer is "nowhere".

Edited July 4, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[StarLapyz]

Without flyballers to drive the process in any club, it wasn't going to happen was it? The AFA as an alternative organisation for competitions removed the need to do so. What the ANKC appears to have been was an opportunity to get titles on pedigrees and that's it.

To be fair it was also an opportunity for the state bodies to grow their membership in a new direction by activley promoting the sport. They didn't do that and essentially wasted the opportunity.

The interest shouldn't be a factor. If your a board members of Dogs NSW you should be acting in the best interests of Dogs NSW. Promoting and actively growing new activities for dogs is part of that. Essentially, the boards of the state bodies were asleep at the wheel and missed and opportunity.

Edited July 4, 2012 by StarLapyz

[Salukifan]

Without flyballers to drive the process in any club, it wasn't going to happen was it? The AFA as an alternative organisation for competitions removed the need to do so. What the ANKC appears to have been was an opportunity to get titles on pedigrees and that's it.

To be fair it was also an opportunity for the state bodies to grow their membership in a new direction by activley promoting the sport. They didn't do that and essentially wasted the opportunity.

The interest shouldn't be a factor. If your a board members of Dogs NSW you should be acting in the best interests of Dogs NSW. Promoting and actively growing new activities for dogs is part of that. Essentially, the boards of the state bodies were asleep at the wheel and missed and opportunity.

With not a single flyballer it seems prepared to assist said Board members by getting invovled on the ANKC side of things, what did you genuinely expect to happen.

The AFA is running comps that deprive the ANKC of potential revenue but with no assistance from flyball participants, the ANKC is expected to do what is does for no other sport and madly promote it? How is promoting a sport that doesn't pay dues in the interest of Dogs NSW? Flyball never paid for schedules to be advertised, no judges paid fees and no comps made money for the CC. A proportion of your participants aren't even ANKC members. But you want what no other dog sport ever gets?

Edited July 4, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[Kavik]

Does the ANKC actively promote any other sport? Genuinely curious.

My understanding is that the ANKC was started for pedigree record keeping and conformation showing.

[Salukifan]

Does the ANKC actively promote any other sport? Genuinely curious.

My understanding is that the ANKC was started for pedigree record keeping and conformation showing.

Nope. The sports promote themselves within the ANKC structure. They make money for the CC's too.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[Sheridan]

Without flyballers to drive the process in any club, it wasn't going to happen was it? The AFA as an alternative organisation for competitions removed the need to do so. What the ANKC appears to have been was an opportunity to get titles on pedigrees and that's it.

To be fair it was also an opportunity for the state bodies to grow their membership in a new direction by activley promoting the sport. They didn't do that and essentially wasted the opportunity.

The interest shouldn't be a factor. If your a board members of Dogs NSW you should be acting in the best interests of Dogs NSW. Promoting and actively growing new activities for dogs is part of that. Essentially, the boards of the state bodies were asleep at the wheel and missed and opportunity.

State bodies barely do any promotion of pedigree dogs and of direct members and yet you expect them to fork out to promote something that is merely affiliated. Your expectations are rather high for something that barely crosses the radar for most dog people. How is the AFA promoting its own sport? I see nothing that promotes flyball at all.

Edit: ping Haredown Whippets.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Sheridan

[StarLapyz]

Without flyballers to drive the process in any club, it wasn't going to happen was it? The AFA as an alternative organisation for competitions removed the need to do so. What the ANKC appears to have been was an opportunity to get titles on pedigrees and that's it.

To be fair it was also an opportunity for the state bodies to grow their membership in a new direction by activley promoting the sport. They didn't do that and essentially wasted the opportunity.

The interest shouldn't be a factor. If your a board members of Dogs NSW you should be acting in the best interests of Dogs NSW. Promoting and actively growing new activities for dogs is part of that. Essentially, the boards of the state bodies were asleep at the wheel and missed and opportunity.

With not a single flyballer it seems prepared to assist said Board members by getting invovled on the ANKC side of things, what did you genuinely expect to happen.

The AFA is running comps that deprive the ANKC of potential revenue but with no assistance from flyball participants, the ANKC is expected to do what is does for no other sport and madly promote it? How is promoting a sport that doesn't pay dues in the interest of Dogs NSW? Flyball never paid for schedules to be advertised, no judges paid fees and no comps made money for the CC. A proportion of your participants aren't even ANKC members. But you want what no other dog sport ever gets?

Go read the mission statements and goals in the founding documents for the ANKC and the various state bodies.

They are not doing what they were founded to do.

I don't expect them just to promote flyball, they should be doing it for all dog sports and activities. They should also be actively promoting pure-bred dogs and general dog ownership in the wider community in a very public way. Currently they do next to nothing.

There is a reason that membership to ANKC affiliated bodies has halved in the last 20 years and that is because they are not proactive and generating member value.

You increase membership when you make membership more valuable. membership has plummeted (and continues to) so there is clearly a perception in the community that the value of membership is reducing (sorry, but the market doesn't lie). In all that time, the ANKC and its state bodies really haven't done anything to reverse the trend (or even try and stem it).

It boils down to one simple fact.

What they have been doing hasn't worked for 20 years, maybe its time to be radical and try something new.

[StarLapyz]

Without flyballers to drive the process in any club, it wasn't going to happen was it? The AFA as an alternative organisation for competitions removed the need to do so. What the ANKC appears to have been was an opportunity to get titles on pedigrees and that's it.

To be fair it was also an opportunity for the state bodies to grow their membership in a new direction by activley promoting the sport. They didn't do that and essentially wasted the opportunity.

The interest shouldn't be a factor. If your a board members of Dogs NSW you should be acting in the best interests of Dogs NSW. Promoting and actively growing new activities for dogs is part of that. Essentially, the boards of the state bodies were asleep at the wheel and missed and opportunity.

State bodies barely do any promotion of pedigree dogs and of direct members and yet you expect them to fork out to promote something that is merely affiliated. Your expectations are rather high for something that barely crosses the radar for most dog people. How is the AFA promoting its own sport? I see nothing that promotes flyball at all.

Edit: ping Haredown Whippets.

Why is it okay that they 'barely do any promotion of pedigree dogs and of direct members'. Why does everyone see this as OKAY and is happy to accept it?

Edited July 4, 2012 by StarLapyz

[Salukifan]

Why is it okay that they 'barely do any promotion of pedigree dogs and of direct members'. Why does everyone see this as OKAY and it happy to accept it?

It isn't. But its the reality of an organisation with few fulltime staff and no publicists. Frankly I'm not interested in seeing my membership and all fees collected quadruple or more to change it but that's just me.

Why such an organisation should use revenue generated by the breeding/showing side and the other dog sports to fund flyball promotion so that the AFA can make money is probably a more interesting question.

What they have been doing hasn't worked for 20 years, maybe its time to be radical and try something new.

Precisely how many flyball only clubs ended up joining the ANKC as affiliates?

You want more.. generate more income. Until then you get what you pay for.

If the ANKC is regarded so poorly by the Flyball community, I'm surprised you're not cheering at this result.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[Jumabaar]

I was actually involved in showing, obedience and agility well before I started flyball. I a dissatisfied ankc member regardless of my sport.

It flyball V ankc and I am not sure why you keep trying to turn it into that.