Ankc No Longer Recognising Flyball Titles

[Salukifan]

Can somebody please explain clearly a few things? It seems like I should be up in arms about something but I'm not really sure why..

- what is the impact of ANKC not recognising flyball titles? Is this different to recognising flyball as a sport?

They won't appear on a dog's pedigree papers and on the dog's name and titles in catalogues etc.

- what does AFA do, and what exactly do they WANT from the ANKC?

One for AFA members.

If I've interpreted Haredown's posts correctly, there are two ways of going about the same thing, and a lot of anger at one way not working.

I can sense the anger but I'm lost as to exactly what hte problem is..

The problem is that the organisation that currently administers and conducts flyball trials has lost its ANKC affiliation. The issue now becomes what do do about it.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[SparkyTansy]

I'm a little confused here...

some questions...

* is the AFA a National organisation?

* are members of other clubs that compete in flyball competitions (like obedience clubs) still able to gain titles?

* are members of the AFA all members of the a state controlling body (ie dogsnsw)?

[Salukifan]

So, interested to hear what the final reasons really are. Will have to do some checking. I suspect that seeing as no ANKC affiliated club ever decided to host a flyball comp then really there is no reason to continue the agreement. Title issue being the down side of ceasing it but that never bothered me anyway. I suspect that most ANKC members who took up ANKC titles were already members of AFA clubs who continued to host flyball comps via the AFA side of things. There does not ever seem to have been any publicising of the fact that ANKC affiliated could take up flyball without being part of the AFA so I guess there was no motivation. Anyone in an ANKC affiliated club who wanted to do flyball as well went and joined a flyball specific club. Those ANKC affiliates who do also do flyball all appear to choose to run their flyball comps via the AFA pathway.

That's simply not true.

The ACT Companion Dog club trains and hosts comps in 5 ANKC recognised sports including flyball. It has hosted many flyball comps.. and allowed their equipment to be used at flyball comps in two states. It is not, nor has it ever been a flyball specific club and frankly I think its a model that should have been more widely followed. Membership in flyball grew for the most part from club members who joined for pet dog training and looked beyond to the ANKC dog sports.

IMO the AFA structure of affiliation within the ANKC has encouraged many flyballers to remain apart from the broader dog training clubs.. the sport did not "grow" from obedience here in Australia as most of the others did and there isn't a lot of overlap between flyball folk and the other sports to the extent that obedience overlaps with most. Well, not at my club anyway.

In fact I'd describe the attitude of some flyballers at my club towards other dog sports followers as "hostile". Stickers belittling agility on their cars are evidence of that.

[Jumabaar]

Oh well I enjoy flyball and agility, as do most of my team mates.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Jumabaar

[Janba]

Smart move. Talk to the RallyO people - they've been the most recent sport recognised.

ETC: RallyO not DWD is most recently recognised sport.

Or talk to the sledding people who are in the process of getting the rules approved and judges training set up.

[Salukifan]

There is no DogsNSW flyball rep that I can see (I did think there was one a few years ago but can find no evidence of it). There are no ANKC rules up on the website (they were just using the AFA rules). As far as I know there has been no judges training offered by DogsNSW.

And the responsiblity for all of that lies within the flyball community. Who do you think does it for all the other dog sports??

I guess my question is- why if nothing has change have we gone from being an affiliated sport to not being an affiliated sport? Why can we not try and work to revive the system that was working.

Based on what's been posted here, the reason is because the AFA has given up??

I didn't really expect to be told that we should start from scratch just because thats what other people did- but I do think that is the attitude that the current organisation fosters.

It was suggested that you start from scratch because the information posted was that the situation was at an impasse. If that's the case where else do you suggest you start?

Flyball was on both weekends of the royal, plus good friday etc- why because it is a big draw card in the eyes of the RAS. I really don't understand why this attitude isn't shared by an organisation who's mission statement is "To promote excellence in breeding, showing, trialling, obedience and other canine related activities and the ownership of temperamentally and physically sound pure bred dogs by responsible individuals across Australia".

If you want an attitude to be shared within an organisation then you have to get involved and engage within the organisation. How many flyballers nominated for council, attended AGM's or wrote for the journals? Why ARE there no reps on Councils for your sport? Flyball is a very small frog in the ANKC pond and it's up to the little frogs to promote their sport within the ANKC like every other sport did or does. Why do flyballers expect everyone else to do the running for them?

Ultimately no it doesn't matter if the ANKC recognises flyball- my dog loves it and will continue to go fetch her ball. But I do think that its a missed opportunity on the part of the ANKC and its member bodies. I think Rally was a great inclusion, and once my dog retires from flyball she will end up getting a few DWD titles.

Is just a shame she will remain a Flyball Master for future generations to see based on the only registry I have available to me when she has gone on to become a Flyball Master Excellent and hopefully by next year will be a Flyball Master Champion.

If it doesn't matter, then why all the angst? Clearly ANKC recognition matters to quite a few flyballers.

I think the missed opportunity if this is not resolved is for flyballers. The sooner that the flyball community recognise that your future lies within your hands and stop looking to the ANKC to make it happen, the sooner you can get those titles recognised on an ANKC issued pedigree as they should and could be.

What do you think the Earth Dog and DWD and RallyO enthusiasts have done? No one did the hard yards for them.

Why do you want special treatment when the facts as far as I can understand them are that flyball has, by it's AFA structure, held itself apart from the wider ANKC community

Time for a few flyballers to step up and take the lead IMO. Get the sport recognised directly. You've got all the bones of a good case already.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[Jumabaar]

HW had edited my post because I realise that what I say really is pointless considering I am not going to be in the position to run for DogsNSW this year due to study commitments in the next 12mths as I will be out of the country and in the country for a good portion of 2013 but it is something that I would like to do in the future as time permits. Thank you for your constructive posts.

HW- ACT companion dog club now only hosts comps for 4 ankc recognised sports. Also I do believe all flyball comps hosted by your club have been done via the AFA not the ANKC so your club will continue to host AFA flyball regardless of the ANKC ruling- although I do wonder why they made that decision.

Further Plenty of agility clubs are not tied to obedience so not sure what the problem with flyball only clubs is??? (I am a member of a flyball specific, an obedience specific and an agility specific club as well as a 'general purpose' club and run into many of the same people at each of the clubs).

Edited July 4, 2012 by Jumabaar

[StarLapyz]

I'm a little confused here...

some questions...

* is the AFA a National organisation?

* are members of other clubs that compete in flyball competitions (like obedience clubs) still able to gain titles?

* are members of the AFA all members of the a state controlling body (ie dogsnsw)?

To answer your questions:-

The AFA is a national organisation.

You cannot compete in flyball and gain an ANKC title any more.

You can be an AFA members without being a member of the ANKC and (prior to the termination of the agreement) could be a memebr of the ANKC without being a members of the AFA and do flyball.

[Salukifan]

HW had edited my post- which is relevant to you. I realise that what I say really is pointless considering I am not going to be in the position to run for DogsNSW this year due to study commitments in the next 12mths as I will be out of the country and in the country for a good portion of 2013 but it is something that I would like to do in the future as time permits. Thank you for your constructive posts.

Copied my edit from my last post-

HW- ACT companion dog club now only hosts comps for 4 ankc recognised sports. Also I do believe all flyball comps hosted by your club have been done via the AFA not the ANKC so your club will continue to host AFA flyball regardless of the ANKC ruling- although I do wonder why they made that decision.

Further Plenty of agility clubs are not tied to obedience so not sure what the problem with flyball only clubs is??? (I am a member of a flyball specific, an obedience specific and an agility specific club as well as a 'general purpose' club and run into many of the same people at each of the clubs).

No one said you had to do it Jumbaar - but the flyball community needs someone to act. I think perhaps that someone will come from outside the AFA hierarchy?

Why would our club continue to host Flyball? Because the flyball members are an engaged and valued part of the club and my guess is the Committee didn't see why one of our dog sports groups should suffer for this decision. We have our own equipment, dedicated grounds and our own insurance for events run on those grounds so that issue is solved.

I suppose the problem with flyball only clubs is that they haven't organised themselves to have a voice on the canine controls.. as other dog sports have done via having a committee appointed to deal with all of the sports specific issues and with a rep on Council. My guess is that with the AFA running the flyball show, no one saw the need. Did the flyball clubs attend club president and secretaries meetings at the CC if they were held. I know our CC has one for all clubs.

ACT companion dog club now only hosts comps for 4 ankc recognised sports

I think we're having a Tracking Comp soon - with Obedience, Agility, RallyO and DWD, that makes five. :)

Edited July 4, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[StarLapyz]

There is no DogsNSW flyball rep that I can see (I did think there was one a few years ago but can find no evidence of it). There are no ANKC rules up on the website (they were just using the AFA rules). As far as I know there has been no judges training offered by DogsNSW.

And the responsiblity for all of that lies within the flyball community. Who do you think does it for all the other dog sports??

I guess my question is- why if nothing has change have we gone from being an affiliated sport to not being an affiliated sport? Why can we not try and work to revive the system that was working.

Based on what's been posted here, the reason is because the AFA has given up??

I didn't really expect to be told that we should start from scratch just because thats what other people did- but I do think that is the attitude that the current organisation fosters.

It was suggested that you start from scratch because the information posted was that the situation was at an impasse. If that's the case where else do you suggest you start?

Flyball was on both weekends of the royal, plus good friday etc- why because it is a big draw card in the eyes of the RAS. I really don't understand why this attitude isn't shared by an organisation who's mission statement is "To promote excellence in breeding, showing, trialling, obedience and other canine related activities and the ownership of temperamentally and physically sound pure bred dogs by responsible individuals across Australia".

If you want an attitude to be shared within an organisation then you have to get involved and engage within the organisation. How many flyballers nominated for council, attended AGM's or wrote for the journals? Why ARE there no reps on Councils for your sport? Flyball is a very small frog in the ANKC pond and it's up to the little frogs to promote their sport within the ANKC like every other sport did or does. Why do flyballers expect everyone else to do the running for them?

Ultimately no it doesn't matter if the ANKC recognises flyball- my dog loves it and will continue to go fetch her ball. But I do think that its a missed opportunity on the part of the ANKC and its member bodies. I think Rally was a great inclusion, and once my dog retires from flyball she will end up getting a few DWD titles.

Is just a shame she will remain a Flyball Master for future generations to see based on the only registry I have available to me when she has gone on to become a Flyball Master Excellent and hopefully by next year will be a Flyball Master Champion.

If it doesn't matter, then why all the angst? Clearly ANKC recognition matters to quite a few flyballers.

I think the missed opportunity if this is not resolved is for flyballers. The sooner that the flyball community recognise that your future lies within your hands and stop looking to the ANKC to make it happen, the sooner you can get those titles recognised on an ANKC issued pedigree as they should and could be.

What do you think the Earth Dog and DWD and RallyO enthusiasts have done? No one did the hard yards for them.

Why do you want special treatment when the facts as far as I can understand them are that flyball has, by it's AFA structure, held itself apart from the wider ANKC community

Time for a few flyballers to step up and take the lead IMO. Get the sport recognised directly. You've got all the bones of a good case already.

Some of the issue here and why there is so much angst is because we DID DO THE HARD YARDS.

We had an agreement, it was working great and then it just got killed despite our (the AFAs) best efforts to try and accommodate the ANKC.

[Jumabaar]

HW had edited my post- which is relevant to you. I realise that what I say really is pointless considering I am not going to be in the position to run for DogsNSW this year due to study commitments in the next 12mths as I will be out of the country and in the country for a good portion of 2013 but it is something that I would like to do in the future as time permits. Thank you for your constructive posts.

Copied my edit from my last post-

HW- ACT companion dog club now only hosts comps for 4 ankc recognised sports. Also I do believe all flyball comps hosted by your club have been done via the AFA not the ANKC so your club will continue to host AFA flyball regardless of the ANKC ruling- although I do wonder why they made that decision.

Further Plenty of agility clubs are not tied to obedience so not sure what the problem with flyball only clubs is??? (I am a member of a flyball specific, an obedience specific and an agility specific club as well as a 'general purpose' club and run into many of the same people at each of the clubs).

No one said you had to do it Jumbaar - but the flyball community needs someone to act.

Why would our club continue to host Flyball? Because the flyball members are an engaged and valued part of the club and my guess is the Committee didn't see why one of our dog sports groups should suffer for this decision. We have our own dedicated grounds and our own insurance for events run on those grounds so that issue is solved.

I suppose the problem with flyball only clubs is that they haven't organised themselves to have a voice on the canine controls.. as other dog sports have done via having a committee appointed to deal with all of the sports specific issues and with a rep on Council. Did the flyball clubs attend club president and secretaries meetings at the CC if they were held. I know our CC has one for all clubs.

ACT companion dog club now only hosts comps for 4 ankc recognised sports

I think we're having a Tracking Comp soon - with Obedience, Agility, RallyO and DWD, that makes five. :)

Not the decision to continue running flyball- Just how it evolved that the ANKC club continued to run AFA competitions not ANKC competitions. Because I do run in flyball only team that isn't ANKC affiliated at all (although I personally am) I have no idea why clubs who are tied to the ANKC through other sports decided to stick with the AFA. It was a moot point for us but was it ever discussed in clubs where it was relevant. Did the ANKC send out information to its associates about this option? If not why- if they did why didnt clubs take them up on it.

I don't have answers to those questions but I think they are far more important to answer before we push for flyball to start from scratch again.

I personally am not a member of our national committee but I do know the people like TJ who initially pushed this through and people who have been trying to maintain the agreement and they did want this to work (I am realistic that not everyone is pushing for it on the AFA side). And are actually a little miffed about why it didnt work. What I don't have is any information from the ANKC side really- so yes I am one sided because that is the only side who will communicate with me. DogsNSW made the announcement and have said it isn't their decision- so basically washing their hands of it all so in all honesty where do I get the other sides story from??

Actually miffed is probably the best description for how I feel- completely in the dark, not a clue, confused and ultimately disappointed. Until we get real answers about why this all failed- from clubs not running ANKC affiliated comps even though they are ANKC members to why there was suddenly an insurance issue- I don't think we can progress to try and get the sport recognised under the AFA banner or from scratch under the ANKC banner. We would come up against the same problems but I am really not sure where to find these answers.

ETA- there are no flyball clubs in my area that are affiliated with the ANKC so I never had the option of running in an ANKC team but would have gladly done it and saved myself a little cash.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Jumabaar

[Kavik]

Here's one to consider:

Get flyball recognised as a ANKC dog sport like any other. It can co-exist with the AFA recognised flyball in the same manner that ANKC agility co-exists with ADAA agility.

Flyball and the AFA don't have to be conjoined.

I think from reading everything that this would be the best course of action. I agree with HW that since AFA has been prominent, people have not seen the reason to get things up and running properly within the ANKC framework.

[Jumabaar]

Here's one to consider:

Get flyball recognised as a ANKC dog sport like any other. It can co-exist with the AFA recognised flyball in the same manner that ANKC agility co-exists with ADAA agility.

Flyball and the AFA don't have to be conjoined.

I think from reading everything that this would be the best course of action. I agree with HW that since AFA has been prominent, people have not seen the reason to get things up and running properly within the ANKC framework.

I think my brain is just wired differently.

I genuinely don't understand why an organisation with the mission statement that it currently has isn't actively trying to get all dog sports affiliated with them, and offering members the opportunity to try new sports. i.e. instead of Members having to push for DWD, why the ANKC/member bodies didnt come to its members and say 'there is a cool new sport that we could trial- do you want to have a go'. Or why the ANKC doesn't say to ADAA members that if they are also ANKC members that their titles will be recognised because for all intents and purposes its a dogs sport, dogs have earnt those titles so its our job to record that because we are first and foremost a registry, second to that a spokesperson and promotor of all things responsibly canine......

Weight pulling, Dock Dogs, Sledding, frisby are all examples of sports that should be being nurtured along, not striving against an organisation who is meant to represent them. I don't expect everything to be handed out on a sliver platter but I think they should be being encouraged as much as possible.

Like i said- strange brain wiring on my part.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Jumabaar

[Janba]

Here's one to consider:

Get flyball recognised as a ANKC dog sport like any other. It can co-exist with the AFA recognised flyball in the same manner that ANKC agility co-exists with ADAA agility.

Flyball and the AFA don't have to be conjoined.

I think from reading everything that this would be the best course of action. I agree with HW that since AFA has been prominent, people have not seen the reason to get things up and running properly within the ANKC framework.

I think my brain is just wired differently.

I genuinely don't understand why an organisation with the mission statement that it currently has isn't actively trying to get all dog sports affiliated with them, and offering members the opportunity to try new sports. i.e. instead of Members having to push for DWD, why the ANKC/member bodies didnt come to its members and say 'there is a cool new sport that we could trial- do you want to have a go'. Or why the ANKC doesn't say to ADAA members that if they are also ANKC members that their titles will be recognised because for all intents and purposes its a dogs sport, dogs have earnt those titles so its our job to record that because we are first and foremost a registry, second to that a spokesperson and promotor of all things responsibly canine......

Weight pulling, Dock Dogs, Sledding are all examples of sports that should be being nurtured along, not striving against an organisation who is meant to represent them. I don't expect everything to be handed out on a sliver platter but I think they should be being encouraged as much as possible.

Like i said- strange brain wiring on my part.

Sledding/weight pull are in the process of finalising rules etc.

[Kavik]

They are an organisation before anything else - they want things to fall under their framework.

[StarLapyz]

Here's one to consider:

Get flyball recognised as a ANKC dog sport like any other. It can co-exist with the AFA recognised flyball in the same manner that ANKC agility co-exists with ADAA agility.

Flyball and the AFA don't have to be conjoined.

I think from reading everything that this would be the best course of action. I agree with HW that since AFA has been prominent, people have not seen the reason to get things up and running properly within the ANKC framework.

I think my brain is just wired differently.

I genuinely don't understand why an organisation with the mission statement that it currently has isn't actively trying to get all dog sports affiliated with them, and offering members the opportunity to try new sports. i.e. instead of Members having to push for DWD, why the ANKC/member bodies didnt come to its members and say 'there is a cool new sport that we could trial- do you want to have a go'. Or why the ANKC doesn't say to ADAA members that if they are also ANKC members that their titles will be recognised because for all intents and purposes its a dogs sport, dogs have earnt those titles so its our job to record that because we are first and foremost a registry, second to that a spokesperson and promotor of all things responsibly canine......

Weight pulling, Dock Dogs, Sledding are all examples of sports that should be being nurtured along, not striving against an organisation who is meant to represent them. I don't expect everything to be handed out on a sliver platter but I think they should be being encouraged as much as possible.

Like i said- strange brain wiring on my part.

Sledding/weight pull are in the process of finalising rules etc.

Her point still stands. The ANKC should be actively chasing new sports and being the primary properter of them. Not forcing new sports to jump through umpteen hoops to get recognised.

Actively adopting and promoting new sports, as well as offering an all inclusive registry for dogs in Australia, would be much more in line with their mission than what they currently do.

Their Mission

To promote excellence in breeding, showing, trialling, obedience and other canine related activities and the ownership of temperamentally and physically sound pure bred dogs by responsible individuals across Australia.

To promote responsible dog ownership and encourage State Member Bodies to put in place programs to that effect.

To act as spokesperson on all canine related activities on a National basis on behalf of State Member Bodies and to pledge assistance and support to the respective State Member Bodies.

Edited July 4, 2012 by StarLapyz

[Sheridan]

Her point still stands. The ANKC should be actively chasing new sports and being the primary properter of them. Not forcing new sports to jump through umpteen hoops to get recognised.

Actively adopting and promoting new sports, as well as offering an all inclusive registry for dogs in Australia, would be much more in line with their mission than what they currently do.

Their Mission

To promote excellence in breeding, showing, trialling, obedience and other canine related activities and the ownership of temperamentally and physically sound pure bred dogs by responsible individuals across Australia.

To promote responsible dog ownership and encourage State Member Bodies to put in place programs to that effect.

To act as spokesperson on all canine related activities on a National basis on behalf of State Member Bodies and to pledge assistance and support to the respective State Member Bodies.

The key word there is 'promote'. Not organise. Promote.

Whatever sports there are have to fall under their framework. It's up to dog sports to like it or lump it. I say this without judgement on the sports and I agree that as an organisation the ANKC isn't a friend winner but that goes to the people who are in the ANKC, who in turn are in the state bodies. If the state bodies are going 'Not our fault then it should be pointed out that a representative of the state body is on the ANKC committee. You can't go wrong in making friends but with some people and organisations it takes more effort.

[StarLapyz]

Her point still stands. The ANKC should be actively chasing new sports and being the primary properter of them. Not forcing new sports to jump through umpteen hoops to get recognised.

Actively adopting and promoting new sports, as well as offering an all inclusive registry for dogs in Australia, would be much more in line with their mission than what they currently do.

Their Mission

To promote excellence in breeding, showing, trialling, obedience and other canine related activities and the ownership of temperamentally and physically sound pure bred dogs by responsible individuals across Australia.

To promote responsible dog ownership and encourage State Member Bodies to put in place programs to that effect.

To act as spokesperson on all canine related activities on a National basis on behalf of State Member Bodies and to pledge assistance and support to the respective State Member Bodies.

The key word there is 'promote'. Not organise. Promote.

Whatever sports there are have to fall under their framework. It's up to dog sports to like it or lump it. I say this without judgement on the sports and I agree that as an organisation the ANKC isn't a friend winner but that goes to the people who are in the ANKC, who in turn are in the state bodies. If the state bodies are going 'Not our fault then it should be pointed out that a representative of the state body is on the ANKC committee. You can't go wrong in making friends but with some people and organisations it takes more effort.

I get what you are saying, and that is how it is.

But that isn't how it should be and I honestly don't know why so many members are willing to sit by and accept (and even defend) an ANKC (and state bodies) that really come nowhere near fulfilling their potential.

Demand more of them and you might actually get it.

[Rebanne]

At the moment the ANKC has no capability to run flyball competitions (they don;t have the equipment, they have no accredited judges etc.). By terminating the affiliation with the AFA, they have removed the ability for their members to do flyball in an ANKC sanctioned way and have removed the ability for ANYONE to get titles in Flyball.

You can still get titles, they just won't be recognised by the ANKC. Much like some of the "flavours" of agility, they are not recognised by the ANKC.

[Janba]

Sledding/weight pull are in the process of finalising rules etc.

Her point still stands. The ANKC should be actively chasing new sports and being the primary properter of them. Not forcing new sports to jump through umpteen hoops to get recognised.

Why are they jumping through hoops? Each member state has to agree on the rules and that takes time. I would much rather the rules I compete under are decided by people involved in the sport rather than an individual who has no interest in it.

ETA A lot goes on during the year at state levels to do with the ANKC committees that unless you are on a committee you don't usually hear about.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Janba