Incident With Loose Dog Last Night

[Guest lavendergirl]

Every council in QLD has it's own by-laws. Under the Brisbane by-laws, council officers could take action (or at least a warning) if this is reported. Both for the dog being loose in a yard with no fences, and for behaving menacingly towards people and other animals passing by.

It doesn't matter what the law is anywhere else in Australia. It shouldn't matter what the size of this dog is. If a large dog behaved in this way it would be extremely scary.

If I was trying to walk my dogs past a dog behaving like this in a yard, I would be concerned as well, especially since the woman couldn't catch the dog. I would say her nasty reaction is typical of people who are embarrassed when their untrained, uncontrolled dog makes them look stupid.

Greytmate - where did you find this by-law? Not having a go - had a look and could not find anything.

[Jumabaar]

Every council in QLD has it's own by-laws. Under the Brisbane by-laws, council officers could take action (or at least a warning) if this is reported. Both for the dog being loose in a yard with no fences, and for behaving menacingly towards people and other animals passing by.

It doesn't matter what the law is anywhere else in Australia. It shouldn't matter what the size of this dog is. If a large dog behaved in this way it would be extremely scary.

If I was trying to walk my dogs past a dog behaving like this in a yard, I would be concerned as well, especially since the woman couldn't catch the dog. I would say her nasty reaction is typical of people who are embarrassed when their untrained, uncontrolled dog makes them look stupid.

I agree

Edited July 3, 2012 by Jumabaar

[Aidan3]

I've lived with a reactive dog and trained many more and I honestly don't worry too much about this sort of thing. If someone is breaking the law, report them by all means but it's going to happen with some frequency anyway. If you don't feel that you can handle the situation or that it's unsafe for you, then turn around and walk the other way.

[kayla1]

(I would also say that if the lady went to try and catch her dog there was a reason for it...... Most people who have unreactive/reliable dogs just wave me past- its the ones who attempt to catch their dog that worry me the most)

maybe she was worried the other dogs might get off their leads and rush hers?

What a mountain out of a molehill this is. Dog was in yard, made no attempt to leave yard, all it did was bark and do zoomies. The OP's dogs also barked. So what.

Completely agree!

And why would the lady in her yard have her dog unleashed in an unfenced area if she didn't have some confidence that the dog wouldn't stay in the yard.

I would never have mine in an unfenced yard near a road as I don't have complete trust in her and her road sense/recall so for this lady to even have brought the little dog out the front must mean they probably do it often and the dog stays within its parameters.

Why then do we get so many Hit by Cars when people are taking their dog for a walk? Why am I terrorised by dogs in an on lead area by off lead dogs with no recall???? You are sensible, have a brain and use it- not everyone is so lucky to have the ability to do that. Other people think their dog is reliable but most of them are wearing rose tinted glasses.

This is probably a suitable blog post-

http://blog.k9pro.com.au/take-no-chances/

The man who's dog was hit in this situation would be liable for all damage to the car that hit the dog...... This is why I said a visit from the ranger to let this person know the consequences if the dog did get off the property might be beneficial since most people don't know the consequences of their dog being caught not on a lead in a public area. At no point did I indicate that the person should get into trouble for what they were doing- I am saying that education might be a good start.

In this situation I would have turned around and gone in the other direction- certainly not continued past the dog (I do have a reactive dog and there is no way I would risk my training by putting him in a situation I couldn't control) but I couldn't be bothered waiting for them to catch their dog either.

Why are you lecturing me I've already stated I don't have mine in an unsecured area offleash so get off your soap box. that doesn't mean other people will continue to do so on their property and there is sweet FA you can do about it.

I would guess most dogs are being hit by cars when they get out from their homes and/or lost not when being supervised by their owner in the front yard.

I called you sensible because of your choices. Thats not really lecturing you!! (and although it was your post I replied to it was a general contribution to the thread)

I was merely pointing out that not everyone makes sensible/logical choices and the rest of the population suffers because of it.

Many HBC in the city are being walked illegally off lead and something random happens and they end up in front of the car. Some of these dogs are 8 or 9yrs old and have always been walked off lead without a problem. The point is even the most reliable dog can have an off day so I don't think any dog should be off lead unless there is a fence or a decent distance between them and cars/other dogs. A few of my dogs have amazing recalls and they still don't get walked off lead near other people or dogs because I am naturally risk averse because past experience has taught me to be risk averse.

Agree. One of my dogs has very good recall (his nature - not a result of my handling skills) but is still on lead unless in safe areas. Yet I've had plenty of people tell me proudly that their dog is so well trained that they never have to use a lead...

[Weasels]

I've lived with a reactive dog and trained many more and I honestly don't worry too much about this sort of thing. If someone is breaking the law, report them by all means but it's going to happen with some frequency anyway. If you don't feel that you can handle the situation or that it's unsafe for you, then turn around and walk the other way.

+1

As someone with a dog who is reactive to normal, perfectly legitimate activities of others (and not to other dogs), my mindset is definitely one of taking full responsibility for any reaction my dog has, and sometimes the best tool in my toolbox is to walk or even RUN the other way (in an "it's a game!" kind-of-way). It sure would be handy if people kept their cats inside, never rode bikes/skateboards/scooters on the path and if old ladies never walked around our neighbourhood, but they will and they can, no point wishing different.

[mixeduppup]

I had an old foster dog (have no idea what breed but possibly some lab in there) it would react to everything, cars driving by, bikes, other dogs, kids running, ladies with prams, don't get me started on the day horse riders went past. As far as I'm concerned my dog's reaction was my responsibility and I can't blame others for simply living. Or do a radio announcement for the local radio say "at 5pm I want this, this and this street deserted for 1 hour" It doesn't work like that. People are people and I think we try to control them too much without looking at the part we play in the scenario.

Edited July 3, 2012 by mixeduppup

[fuzzy82]

(I would also say that if the lady went to try and catch her dog there was a reason for it...... Most people who have unreactive/reliable dogs just wave me past- its the ones who attempt to catch their dog that worry me the most)

maybe she was worried the other dogs might get off their leads and rush hers?

What a mountain out of a molehill this is. Dog was in yard, made no attempt to leave yard, all it did was bark and do zoomies. The OP's dogs also barked. So what.

Completely agree!

And why would the lady in her yard have her dog unleashed in an unfenced area if she didn't have some confidence that the dog wouldn't stay in the yard.

I would never have mine in an unfenced yard near a road as I don't have complete trust in her and her road sense/recall so for this lady to even have brought the little dog out the front must mean they probably do it often and the dog stays within its parameters.

I don't believe she was confident that it would stay in the yard, the fact that it was loose doesn't mean she was confident. 1. It's a cul-de-sac, so hardly any traffic, 2. It was 10 pm, and everyone else seemed to have gone to bed.

The dog didn't do "zoomies" around the yard as a playful thing, the woman called it and it then started running around to get away from her, thinking it was a great game. Yes, it forgot about my dogs while it was doing that, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't have rushed my dogs if we had kept walking. We were still pretty far away at this point.

[fuzzy82]

You say the dogs did not react the first night, but did on the second. It is possible that by your actions (making an 'issue' of the dog, stopping rather than keeping walking past on the other side of the road) that you have actually contributed to making it an issue for your dogs. Dogs pick up on our body language. If we 'alert' to something and our body language give off (sometimes subtle) indications that we are tense about it we can cause a reaction in our own dogs. Your dogs learnt from the first night that you had a problem with that dog being there (by stopping and 'alerting' to it). You did the same thing the second night so your dogs followed your lead in alerting to it too.

As noted, the dog at no time left its front yard and you were on the other side of the road. While I do agree that having the dog out front offlead was not necessarily the right thing to do, and if walking past with my dogs I would be wary and disapproving too, IMO if you had KEPT WALKING on the other side of the road you would have been quickly past and it would likely have been a non issue. By stopping you made it more of an issue that it might otherwise have been.

JMHO.

Nope, I don't cause my dogs to react. It's my reactive dog that causes the other one to react. Unless you think I'm the one who caused my puppy to become reactive in the first place?

[mixeduppup]

May I ask why you walk your dogs down a cul-de-sac?

Unless there's a laneway or something, it seems a strange thing to do?

Edited July 3, 2012 by mixeduppup

[fuzzy82]

May I ask why you walk your dogs down a cul-de-sac?

Unless there's a laneway or something, it seems a strange thing to do?

We walk down our street, then there is a path into the cul-de-sac from our road so we enter at the end of it, then walk out of it and into other streets. where we do a loop and end up back at our house.

[megan_]

I've lived with a reactive dog and trained many more and I honestly don't worry too much about this sort of thing. If someone is breaking the law, report them by all means but it's going to happen with some frequency anyway. If you don't feel that you can handle the situation or that it's unsafe for you, then turn around and walk the other way.

I have a reactive dog (you wouldn't know it if you saw her walking, better behaved than most dogs out there) and I do worry about it, just a lot less these days. I don't worry too much about small dogs because I could sort them out with a kick. It is the powerful ones that I worry about. My girl is 9kg and wouldn't stand a chance against many dogs. The fact that the other owner was doing something illegal wouldn't be able to bring her back.

I now walk with a citronella spray in my bag. Unfortunately, that won't stop a truly aggressive dog, but it does help me relax because I'm willing to use it if a "he's friendly" runs over to us and harasses her. Obviously it isn't my first line of defence (turning and walking away while throwing down a handful of food is my first weapon of choice and is very effective against a dog that isn't looking for a fight).

I wish pepper spray was legal because I'd feel more comfortable if I could use that.

ETA: Skating, playing etc aren't against my council's bylaws. Dogs in unfenced front yards are. That said, I have concluded since owning a reactive dog that most dog owners aren't very responsible and don't train basic things like recall so I expect that I'll have to deal with rogue dogs. I too have plenty of tools to help avoid situations and I land up using them most days. Some days it would just be nice to go for a walk without dealing with dog owners who think that "he's friendly" means that the laws don't apply to them.

Edited July 3, 2012 by megan_

[mixeduppup]

May I ask why you walk your dogs down a cul-de-sac?

Unless there's a laneway or something, it seems a strange thing to do?

We walk down our street, then there is a path into the cul-de-sac from our road so we enter at the end of it, then walk out of it and into other streets. where we do a loop and end up back at our house.

Oh that makes sense :)

[Aidan3]

I now walk with a citronella spray in my bag. Unfortunately, that won't stop a truly aggressive dog

Have you used it? Does it work at all?

Sorry to go OT, I'm curious to know. I can't find any evidence that citronella is aversive to a significant number of dogs.

[megan_]

I now walk with a citronella spray in my bag. Unfortunately, that won't stop a truly aggressive dog

Have you used it? Does it work at all?

Sorry to go OT, I'm curious to know. I can't find any evidence that citronella is aversive to a significant number of dogs.

Not yet. It was recommended on one of the best "living with reactive dogs" sites around though and I think the author has used it. However, even pepper spray won't deter some dogs - they just work through the pain.

I definitely know that there are scenarios that this spray won't save her from - I try not to think about those otherwise she'd never leave the house. It is my safety blanket of sorts.

Edited July 3, 2012 by megan_

[m-sass]

(b

) on land which is not a public place (including land on which the animal is kept),

but not within an enclosure on that land and not under a person’s effective

control, the keeper of the animal is taken to have committed an offence.

Maximum penalty: 10 penalty units

Whether an offence has been committed with a dog loose in an unfenced yard would be determined by the council definition of a "person's effective control". A dog under this law can't be left unsupervised in a fenceless yard, but given in this case the dog didn't run onto the street (a public place) and a person was in attendance with the dog, "effective control" may be satisfied??

[OSoSwift]

Personally I think the person with the zooming white fluffy should have had their dog on a lead or behind a fence, however due to the fact the dog did not leave it's property I don't think you have much to report.

I also second the do not stop keep moving advice. When you are moving it is easier to keep your dogs attention on you. When you sit they can focus much more easily on what has peaked thier interest. If the dogs does come at you, whip your dog behind you and do what needs to be done to keep your dog safe.

[Guest lavendergirl]

This is an extract from the Brisbane City Council website:

"Fencing and shelter

A part of caring for your dog is ensuring that it has a safe, secure environment in which to live. Constructing an adequate fence around your property protects both your dog and your neighbourhood. Remember, this is a Council requirement. Failure to provide adequate confinement could result in a fine."

So if Fuzzy is in the Brisbane City Council area then she may be able to report based on this. I would be interested though Fuzzy if you did report what level of importance they placed on your complaint as the dog did not leave the boundary?

[Greytmate]

Every council in QLD has it's own by-laws. Under the Brisbane by-laws, council officers could take action (or at least a warning) if this is reported. Both for the dog being loose in a yard with no fences, and for behaving menacingly towards people and other animals passing by.

It doesn't matter what the law is anywhere else in Australia. It shouldn't matter what the size of this dog is. If a large dog behaved in this way it would be extremely scary.

If I was trying to walk my dogs past a dog behaving like this in a yard, I would be concerned as well, especially since the woman couldn't catch the dog. I would say her nasty reaction is typical of people who are embarrassed when their untrained, uncontrolled dog makes them look stupid.

Greytmate - where did you find this by-law? Not having a go - had a look and could not find anything.

Here is the Brisbane local law.

http://services.dip.qld.gov.au/locallaws/data/postamalgamation/CCBRIS/00_Animals%202003%20LL_res16-06-09.pdf

It also needs to be read in conjunction with the subordinate local law.

http://services.dip.qld.gov.au/locallaws/data/postamalgamation/CCBRIS/00_Animals%202003%20SLL_res16-06-09.pdf

This is the QLD state law regarding menacing dogs.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/qld/consol_act/amada2008244/s89.html

The dog could be declared menacing, because it acted in a way to cause fear. It was having a go at the OP.

It isn't acceptable to have dogs loose in unfenced front yards in Brisbane, and the law has been written so that people cannot use the excuse that the dog was on their property. It must be confined in a way where it can't leave the property, and this owner didn't do that. The menacing dog legislation allows council to act against people that allow their dogs to scare other people from their property. Better to be able to have a problem dog declared menacing than it is to wait until they cause harm.

[Blackdogs]

My dogs are always out in my unfenced front yard with me. If you told me to leash my dogs on my own property I'd tell you to f### off as well. Perhaps if you'd politely apporached me to discuss your concerns I'd be more accommodating, but ordering someone to do something they are under no legal obligation to do is ridiculous.

[Blackdogs]

Every council in QLD has it's own by-laws. Under the Brisbane by-laws, council officers could take action (or at least a warning) if this is reported. Both for the dog being loose in a yard with no fences, and for behaving menacingly towards people and other animals passing by.

It doesn't matter what the law is anywhere else in Australia. It shouldn't matter what the size of this dog is. If a large dog behaved in this way it would be extremely scary.

If I was trying to walk my dogs past a dog behaving like this in a yard, I would be concerned as well, especially since the woman couldn't catch the dog. I would say her nasty reaction is typical of people who are embarrassed when their untrained, uncontrolled dog makes them look stupid.

Greytmate - where did you find this by-law? Not having a go - had a look and could not find anything.

Here is the Brisbane local law.

http://services.dip.qld.gov.au/locallaws/data/postamalgamation/CCBRIS/00_Animals%202003%20LL_res16-06-09.pdf

It also needs to be read in conjunction with the subordinate local law.

http://services.dip.qld.gov.au/locallaws/data/postamalgamation/CCBRIS/00_Animals%202003%20SLL_res16-06-09.pdf

This is the QLD state law regarding menacing dogs.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/qld/consol_act/amada2008244/s89.html

The dog could be declared menacing, because it acted in a way to cause fear. It was having a go at the OP.

It isn't acceptable to have dogs loose in unfenced front yards in Brisbane, and the law has been written so that people cannot use the excuse that the dog was on their property. It must be confined in a way where it can't leave the property, and this owner didn't do that. The menacing dog legislation allows council to act against people that allow their dogs to scare other people from their property. Better to be able to have a problem dog declared menacing than it is to wait until they cause harm.

I guess you could flip this around and say that the OP's reactive dogs acted in a way that caused fear as well. That law is very open to interpretation and is therefore equally open to abuse.