Incident With Loose Dog Last Night

[JulesP]

My shire states that dogs must be 'securely confined' on an owners property. Loose out the front with no fence (solid or zappy) doesn't sound securely confined.

[espinay2]

You say the dogs did not react the first night, but did on the second. It is possible that by your actions (making an 'issue' of the dog, stopping rather than keeping walking past on the other side of the road) that you have actually contributed to making it an issue for your dogs. Dogs pick up on our body language. If we 'alert' to something and our body language give off (sometimes subtle) indications that we are tense about it we can cause a reaction in our own dogs. Your dogs learnt from the first night that you had a problem with that dog being there (by stopping and 'alerting' to it). You did the same thing the second night so your dogs followed your lead in alerting to it too.

As noted, the dog at no time left its front yard and you were on the other side of the road. While I do agree that having the dog out front offlead was not necessarily the right thing to do, and if walking past with my dogs I would be wary and disapproving too, IMO if you had KEPT WALKING on the other side of the road you would have been quickly past and it would likely have been a non issue. By stopping you made it more of an issue that it might otherwise have been.

JMHO.

Edited July 2, 2012 by espinay2

[megan_]

I got rushed by an bull breed early in the morning. The owners let it sleep outside the front of their unfenced house. I had to run across the road to avoid it and almost got hit by a car. I guess I was overreacting.

[espinay2]

I got rushed by an bull breed early in the morning. The owners let it sleep outside the front of their unfenced house. I had to run across the road to avoid it and almost got hit by a car. I guess I was overreacting.

Different scenario. The dog rushed you (the one in the OP's scenario didnt), the dog was not supervised (the other one was), the dog left its property? (the other one didn't), you were not already on the other side of the road (the op I think was?), you didn't stop and 'alert' to the dog instead continuing to move off away or past it (which the OP did). I hope you reported the incident.

Edited July 3, 2012 by espinay2

[Pollywaffle]

You say the dogs did not react the first night, but did on the second. It is possible that by your actions (making an 'issue' of the dog, stopping rather than keeping walking past on the other side of the road) that you have actually contributed to making it an issue for your dogs. Dogs pick up on our body language. If we 'alert' to something and our body language give off (sometimes subtle) indications that we are tense about it we can cause a reaction in our own dogs. Your dogs learnt from the first night that you had a problem with that dog being there (by stopping and 'alerting' to it). You did the same thing the second night so your dogs followed your lead in alerting to it too.

As noted, the dog at no time left its front yard and you were on the other side of the road. While I do agree that having the dog out front offlead was not necessarily the right thing to do, and if walking past with my dogs I would be wary and disapproving too, IMO if you had KEPT WALKING on the other side of the road you would have been quickly past and it would likely have been a non issue. By stopping you made it more of an issue that it might otherwise have been.

JMHO.

Totally agree with this summation of the event...

[nawnim]

Once you know there is likely to be a loose dog somewhere just don't go there. You are not going to change the owner's behaviour. Why let yourself (and your dog) become stressed. It's not worth it.

IMHO

[Jumabaar]

(I would also say that if the lady went to try and catch her dog there was a reason for it...... Most people who have unreactive/reliable dogs just wave me past- its the ones who attempt to catch their dog that worry me the most)

maybe she was worried the other dogs might get off their leads and rush hers?

What a mountain out of a molehill this is. Dog was in yard, made no attempt to leave yard, all it did was bark and do zoomies. The OP's dogs also barked. So what.

Completely agree!

And why would the lady in her yard have her dog unleashed in an unfenced area if she didn't have some confidence that the dog wouldn't stay in the yard.

I would never have mine in an unfenced yard near a road as I don't have complete trust in her and her road sense/recall so for this lady to even have brought the little dog out the front must mean they probably do it often and the dog stays within its parameters.

Why then do we get so many Hit by Cars when people are taking their dog for a walk? Why am I terrorised by dogs in an on lead area by off lead dogs with no recall???? You are sensible, have a brain and use it- not everyone is so lucky to have the ability to do that. Other people think their dog is reliable but most of them are wearing rose tinted glasses.

This is probably a suitable blog post-

http://blog.k9pro.com.au/take-no-chances/

The man who's dog was hit in this situation would be liable for all damage to the car that hit the dog...... This is why I said a visit from the ranger to let this person know the consequences if the dog did get off the property might be beneficial since most people don't know the consequences of their dog being caught not on a lead in a public area. At no point did I indicate that the person should get into trouble for what they were doing- I am saying that education might be a good start.

In this situation I would have turned around and gone in the other direction- certainly not continued past the dog (I do have a reactive dog and there is no way I would risk my training by putting him in a situation I couldn't control) but I couldn't be bothered waiting for them to catch their dog either.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Jumabaar

[mixeduppup]

The fact is we can only go by what we know, which is exactly what the council will do if she reports it. The dog didn't leave the yard and barked. By stopping with reactive dogs you exacerbated the issue but only for your dogs, who knows, this dog may be 12 years old and have been doing it its whole life and has never once left the yard. I find going up to a woman you don't know in her yard and telling her what to do with her dog on her property is very rude and I would have acted the same way.

[megan_]

I got rushed by an bull breed early in the morning. The owners let it sleep outside the front of their unfenced house. I had to run across the road to avoid it and almost got hit by a car. I guess I was overreacting.

Different scenario. The dog rushed you (the one in the OP's scenario didnt), the dog was not supervised (the other one was), the dog left its property? (the other one didn't), you were not already on the other side of the road (the op I think was?), you didn't stop and 'alert' to the dog instead continuing to move off away or past it (which the OP did). I hope you reported the incident.

The dog didn't leave it's property. Having a large, powerful dog rush me was enough to scare the bejesus out of me. It would have scared me even if I was accross the road. The dog did bark at her and run towards her?

People are always going to disagree on these things. I still say if a pack of 5 rotties had started barking at the OP, refused to listen to their owner and had no recall people would be outraged.

[mixeduppup]

But the fact is, it wasn't a pack of out of control rottis it was one little dog that was in control or it would have left the yard.

[JulesP]

But the fact is, it wasn't a pack of out of control rottis it was one little dog that was in control or it would have left the yard.

It would depend on the council as to whether 'in control' is enough.

It does annoy me when people stop walking during these situations though. I am constantly telling people to keep walking!

[megan_]

I own little dogs. The rules for little dogs should be the same for big dogs. Little dogs don't have the right to behave like little s****s.

[Greyt]

I have a thing about front yards in general - I don't like dogs in front yards at all because in my experience, dogs are more likely to get riled up to the point of wanting to attack passers by or their dogs that I think it is just a bad idea to keep any dog in front yards. I have a whole block near my house where dogs literally try to jump the fence to get at us. Luckily, we have a great dog park nearby with awesome owners that look out for each other so I have been around that block exactly once.

Notwithstanding other legal considerations, most councils will have some by-law relating to noise and having a dog barking at others as they walk past, in my view can destroy the neighbors amenity.

I have seen a lot of small dogs "patrol" their fence line but never move beyond it, and if challenged, quickly retreat.

And in the OP's case, I definitely think it is wise to keep moving away from the source of anxiety asap.

As a general rule, having any dog in a front yard without adequate fencing is just a recipe for disaster.

As much as their are risks taking my dogs to the dog park, I thank goodness that I do not have to walk them around the neighborhood because I think it is much more scary for them overall.

FWIW, here are my local ByLawas

22.

(1) A person who keeps an animal must:-

(a) construct and maintain a proper enclosure to keep the animal on the person's

land and prevent the animal from wandering or escaping from the land; and Gold Coast City Council

Local Law No 12 (Keeping and Control of Animals)

9

(b) ensure that the animal is kept within the enclosure at all times.

Maximum penalty: 50 penalty units.

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1), a proper enclosure is a fenced area as required by

local law policy.

(3) For avoidance of doubt, a local law policy mentioned in subsection (2) may treat

buildings or structures (other than fences) which effectively contain an animal as

forming part of a proper enclosure.

(4) If an animal is found:-

(a) wandering at large; or

(b) on land which is not a public place (including land on which the animal is kept),

but not within an enclosure on that land and not under a person’s effective

control,

the keeper of the animal is taken to have committed an offence.

Maximum penalty: 10 penalty units

P.S

Megan, I am glad that you and your dogs are OK.

[nawnim]

In theory all dogs should be trained and kept behind fences but in actuality there is a difference between being charged by a 4 kilo SWF and a 40 kilo BBB (Big Black Bruiser).

ETA I have changed Brawny to Bruiser which I think sounds better and still conveys the meaning I want.

Edited July 3, 2012 by padraic

[mixeduppup]

exactly, and also who's to say she didn't have an invisible fence?

[Dame Aussie]

In theory all dogs should be trained and kept behind fences but in actuality there is a difference between being charged by a 4 kilo SWF and a 40 kilo BBB (Big Black Brawny).

A small dog can badly injure another small dog.

[Guest donatella]

(I would also say that if the lady went to try and catch her dog there was a reason for it...... Most people who have unreactive/reliable dogs just wave me past- its the ones who attempt to catch their dog that worry me the most)

maybe she was worried the other dogs might get off their leads and rush hers?

What a mountain out of a molehill this is. Dog was in yard, made no attempt to leave yard, all it did was bark and do zoomies. The OP's dogs also barked. So what.

Completely agree!

And why would the lady in her yard have her dog unleashed in an unfenced area if she didn't have some confidence that the dog wouldn't stay in the yard.

I would never have mine in an unfenced yard near a road as I don't have complete trust in her and her road sense/recall so for this lady to even have brought the little dog out the front must mean they probably do it often and the dog stays within its parameters.

Why then do we get so many Hit by Cars when people are taking their dog for a walk? Why am I terrorised by dogs in an on lead area by off lead dogs with no recall???? You are sensible, have a brain and use it- not everyone is so lucky to have the ability to do that. Other people think their dog is reliable but most of them are wearing rose tinted glasses.

This is probably a suitable blog post-

http://blog.k9pro.com.au/take-no-chances/

The man who's dog was hit in this situation would be liable for all damage to the car that hit the dog...... This is why I said a visit from the ranger to let this person know the consequences if the dog did get off the property might be beneficial since most people don't know the consequences of their dog being caught not on a lead in a public area. At no point did I indicate that the person should get into trouble for what they were doing- I am saying that education might be a good start.

In this situation I would have turned around and gone in the other direction- certainly not continued past the dog (I do have a reactive dog and there is no way I would risk my training by putting him in a situation I couldn't control) but I couldn't be bothered waiting for them to catch their dog either.

Why are you lecturing me I've already stated I don't have mine in an unsecured area offleash so get off your soap box. that doesn't mean other people will continue to do so on their property and there is sweet FA you can do about it.

I would guess most dogs are being hit by cars when they get out from their homes and/or lost not when being supervised by their owner in the front yard.

[Jumabaar]

(I would also say that if the lady went to try and catch her dog there was a reason for it...... Most people who have unreactive/reliable dogs just wave me past- its the ones who attempt to catch their dog that worry me the most)

maybe she was worried the other dogs might get off their leads and rush hers?

What a mountain out of a molehill this is. Dog was in yard, made no attempt to leave yard, all it did was bark and do zoomies. The OP's dogs also barked. So what.

Completely agree!

And why would the lady in her yard have her dog unleashed in an unfenced area if she didn't have some confidence that the dog wouldn't stay in the yard.

I would never have mine in an unfenced yard near a road as I don't have complete trust in her and her road sense/recall so for this lady to even have brought the little dog out the front must mean they probably do it often and the dog stays within its parameters.

Why then do we get so many Hit by Cars when people are taking their dog for a walk? Why am I terrorised by dogs in an on lead area by off lead dogs with no recall???? You are sensible, have a brain and use it- not everyone is so lucky to have the ability to do that. Other people think their dog is reliable but most of them are wearing rose tinted glasses.

This is probably a suitable blog post-

http://blog.k9pro.com.au/take-no-chances/

The man who's dog was hit in this situation would be liable for all damage to the car that hit the dog...... This is why I said a visit from the ranger to let this person know the consequences if the dog did get off the property might be beneficial since most people don't know the consequences of their dog being caught not on a lead in a public area. At no point did I indicate that the person should get into trouble for what they were doing- I am saying that education might be a good start.

In this situation I would have turned around and gone in the other direction- certainly not continued past the dog (I do have a reactive dog and there is no way I would risk my training by putting him in a situation I couldn't control) but I couldn't be bothered waiting for them to catch their dog either.

Why are you lecturing me I've already stated I don't have mine in an unsecured area offleash so get off your soap box. that doesn't mean other people will continue to do so on their property and there is sweet FA you can do about it.

I would guess most dogs are being hit by cars when they get out from their homes and/or lost not when being supervised by their owner in the front yard.

I called you sensible because of your choices. Thats not really lecturing you!! (and although it was your post I replied to it was a general contribution to the thread)

I was merely pointing out that not everyone makes sensible/logical choices and the rest of the population suffers because of it.

Many HBC in the city are being walked illegally off lead and something random happens and they end up in front of the car. Some of these dogs are 8 or 9yrs old and have always been walked off lead without a problem. The point is even the most reliable dog can have an off day so I don't think any dog should be off lead unless there is a fence or a decent distance between them and cars/other dogs. A few of my dogs have amazing recalls and they still don't get walked off lead near other people or dogs because I am naturally risk averse because past experience has taught me to be risk averse.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Jumabaar

[Guest donatella]

(I would also say that if the lady went to try and catch her dog there was a reason for it...... Most people who have unreactive/reliable dogs just wave me past- its the ones who attempt to catch their dog that worry me the most)

maybe she was worried the other dogs might get off their leads and rush hers?

What a mountain out of a molehill this is. Dog was in yard, made no attempt to leave yard, all it did was bark and do zoomies. The OP's dogs also barked. So what.

Completely agree!

And why would the lady in her yard have her dog unleashed in an unfenced area if she didn't have some confidence that the dog wouldn't stay in the yard.

I would never have mine in an unfenced yard near a road as I don't have complete trust in her and her road sense/recall so for this lady to even have brought the little dog out the front must mean they probably do it often and the dog stays within its parameters.

Why then do we get so many Hit by Cars when people are taking their dog for a walk? Why am I terrorised by dogs in an on lead area by off lead dogs with no recall???? You are sensible, have a brain and use it- not everyone is so lucky to have the ability to do that. Other people think their dog is reliable but most of them are wearing rose tinted glasses.

This is probably a suitable blog post-

http://blog.k9pro.com.au/take-no-chances/

The man who's dog was hit in this situation would be liable for all damage to the car that hit the dog...... This is why I said a visit from the ranger to let this person know the consequences if the dog did get off the property might be beneficial since most people don't know the consequences of their dog being caught not on a lead in a public area. At no point did I indicate that the person should get into trouble for what they were doing- I am saying that education might be a good start.

In this situation I would have turned around and gone in the other direction- certainly not continued past the dog (I do have a reactive dog and there is no way I would risk my training by putting him in a situation I couldn't control) but I couldn't be bothered waiting for them to catch their dog either.

Why are you lecturing me I've already stated I don't have mine in an unsecured area offleash so get off your soap box. that doesn't mean other people will continue to do so on their property and there is sweet FA you can do about it.

I would guess most dogs are being hit by cars when they get out from their homes and/or lost not when being supervised by their owner in the front yard.

I called you sensible because of your choices. Thats not really lecturing you!! (and although it was your post I replied to it was a general contribution to the thread)

I was merely pointing out that not everyone makes sensible/logical choices and the rest of the population suffers because of it.

Many HBC in the city are being walked illegally off lead and something random happens and they end up in front of the car. Some of these dogs are 8 or 9yrs old and have always been walked off lead without a problem. The point is even the most reliable dog can have an off day so I don't think any dog should be off lead unless there is a fence or a decent distance between them and cars/other dogs. A few of my dogs have amazing recalls and they still don't get walked off lead near other people or dogs because I am naturally risk averse because past experience has taught me to be risk averse.

Sorry I read your post wrong then

I would never have mine off leash but only because I'm a worry wart and think and plan for the worst in every situation just in case. I don't even like walking along main roads in case one day her lead broke, yes that's how pedantic I am!

I think the dog in the OP is being hung at the trial without having done anything wrong.....yet if the case may be.

[Greytmate]

Every council in QLD has it's own by-laws. Under the Brisbane by-laws, council officers could take action (or at least a warning) if this is reported. Both for the dog being loose in a yard with no fences, and for behaving menacingly towards people and other animals passing by.

It doesn't matter what the law is anywhere else in Australia. It shouldn't matter what the size of this dog is. If a large dog behaved in this way it would be extremely scary.

If I was trying to walk my dogs past a dog behaving like this in a yard, I would be concerned as well, especially since the woman couldn't catch the dog. I would say her nasty reaction is typical of people who are embarrassed when their untrained, uncontrolled dog makes them look stupid.