Epilepsy/seizures - 14 Year Old Foster Dog

[yellowgirl]

I have some concerns about my foster dog, Raffi. He's a Pom x, around 14 years old. He's been here for several weeks, we had a very scary time a little while back with an emergency vet visit and a terribly bad bronchial infection, but thankfully he's now well recovered from that. My concern is what I had been previously referring to as 'night terrors', he screams for 1-3 seconds, looks disorientated, is sometimes a little shaky, then he has a big stretch and seems to be okay, usually he goes straight back to sleep. I've only ever seen this after he's started the scream and it happens sometimes during the a day but always at least once during the night. It ONLY happens when he's asleep in bed, never when he's up and about. About an hour ago I happened to be watching him sleeping, then he stiffened, had what appeared to be a seizure (whole body was stiff and trembling), then he did the scream.

I've recently had another little one, Oliver (senior Chi x) come into care who had a seizure on his first night here, he's had another full one and a partial one since. There's no warning, he stiffens, jerks and falls over. Then he gets right back up and continues with whatever he was doing. My vet has told me to monitor him and keep notes of when he has seizures so we can evaluate what, if anything, he needs. The reason I bring up Oliver is because I haven't had a dog with seizures before and Oliver was a bit of an eye opener for me. Raffi's 'episode' was very similar to the jerking and stiffening that Oliver had prior to and during his seizure.

Naturally, this is happening on a weekend when I can't contact my regular vet. Does anyone know if there's a non invasive test to see if Raffi has epilepsy? It sounds like a dumb question even as I'm writing this, but I honestly don't know what the procedure is. I know with Oliver I'm just monitoring him to see if we can work out the regularity of the seizures to see if he needs to go on medication, but if what Raffi has displayed is epilepsy or seizures for some other reason, he is having them during the day and between one and three times during the night. Basically, up to four of these 'episodes' a day. He seems otherwise fine and healthy, and generally goes straight back to sleep after he screams and then stretches.

Anyone have any advice or info until I can ring my vet on Monday?

Edited July 1, 2012 by yellowgirl

[Crisovar]

It isn't as simple as testing for Epilepsy, it is a case of ruling out all other possible causes for the seizures. If a cause is found such a brain tumour for instance the dog has what is known as secondary Epilepsy, the seizures are caused by a diagnosed condition, if there is no apparent cause for the seizures then it is idiopathic which really is seizures of unknown origin.

A full Vet work up is the order of the day.

[darlingdog]

As it happens one of my dogs was diagnosed yesterday with epilepsy. Full bloods are done to rule out underlying causes ( liver problems, brain tumour etc) History is relevant, in my boys case he has had some very small muscle tremors etc over the past few months that have now culminated in 2 full blown seizures within a 12 hour period. He has been started on meds given his history of the past few months. Don't panic about the weekend.....just keep him comfy and out of harm's way while he is fitting and go talk to your vet next week. There is no definitive test for epilepsy I was told.

[yellowgirl]

It isn't as simple as testing for Epilepsy, it is a case of ruling out all other possible causes for the seizures. If a cause is found such a brain tumour for instance the dog has what is known as secondary Epilepsy, the seizures are caused by a diagnosed condition, if there is no apparent cause for the seizures then it is idiopathic which really is seizures of unknown origin.

A full Vet work up is the order of the day.

Yep, that's what the vet said with Oliver which is why we're monitoring and noting the seizures, I guess it will be the same with Raffi. All our rescues have a full blood panel done within 24 hours of arrival, Oliver's came back all good, Raffi had a couple of irregulars - I'll post them in a sec.

As it happens one of my dogs was diagnosed yesterday with epilepsy. Full bloods are done to rule out underlying causes ( liver problems, brain tumour etc) History is relevant, in my boys case he has had some very small muscle tremors etc over the past few months that have now culminated in 2 full blown seizures within a 12 hour period. He has been started on meds given his history of the past few months. Don't panic about the weekend.....just keep him comfy and out of harm's way while he is fitting and go talk to your vet next week. There is no definitive test for epilepsy I was told.

I'm really sorry about your bub Darlingdog

I think I already knew there was no easy test, particularly as I've already discussed a dog with seizures recently with our vet. Grasping at straws for an easy answer really ... I guess it's just shaken me up a bit to know that Raffi's screams are happening after he's had a fit of some kind (not that it wasn't already very disconcerting enough to hear them for 'no reason').

Here are Raffi's irregular results from 16th May(everything else was fine):

Biochemistry:

NA:K ratio - 25.0 (Reference Range >26)

Glucose, Serum - 2.8 (Reference Range 3.3 - 6.8)

ALP - 311 (Reference Range 1 - 150)

AST - 82 (Reference Range 18 - 80)

CK - 646 (Reference Range 73 - 510)

Haematology:

MCV - 63 (Reference Range 64 - 76)

Platelets - Increased

Platelet Count - 917 (Reference Range 200 - 500)

Endocrinology:

T4 total - <10 (Reference Range 13 - 52)

I know that the low T4 levels can indicate hypothyroidism and have discussed this with my vet. Raffi had a lot of hair loss when he first arrived and the vet wanted to wait and see if decent food helped to rectify this before treating it as a symptom of hypothyroidism. Raffi is already having some good hair regrowth since coming into care, so it appears that the hair loss is probably not related to the low T4 results.

I'd be glad if anyone can interpret the other results in regards to there being something amiss that could indicate the likelihood of multiple daily seizures.

[Guest lavendergirl]

Sorry to hear Raffi is having problems. He has had so much to contend with poor little guy. From what I have heard also it is a matter of ruling out other causes for the seizures before a diagnosis of epilepsy is made. Brain tumors I think can only be detected by scanning - an expensive exercise you may not want to undertake with Raffi due to his age and possible prognosis. It might just be a matter of making him comfortable and making sure he is in no pain. He is lucky at least that he is being well cared for and he is happy at other times.

I really hope the poor little fella continues to have some good quality of life.

[yellowgirl]

Sorry to hear Raffi is having problems. He has had so much to contend with poor little guy. From what I have heard also it is a matter of ruling out other causes for the seizures before a diagnosis of epilepsy is made. Brain tumors I think can only be detected by scanning - an expensive exercise you may not want to undertake with Raffi due to his age and possible prognosis. It might just be a matter of making him comfortable and making sure he is in no pain. He is lucky at least that he is being well cared for and he is happy at other times.

I really hope the poor little fella continues to have some good quality of life.

Thanks Lavendergirl. Yep, the vet explained that during Oliver's consultation. I'm really not sure what I'll do about Raffi's situation, depends entirely on what happens when I talk to the vet tomorrow. I have some concerns about the side effects of the epilepsy medications too. You are so right about their quality of life, that's the most important thing for the dogs here, especially as they're all seniors/special-needs. Apart from the sleep screams, Raffi is a happy little chap, he's improved so much since he's been in care here and his Chiro treatments have also made an amazing difference.

I don't know if this is relevant to the seizures, but Raffi can't turn left. He circles to the right to change direction. The vet is aware of this but it didn't seem to have any bearing on any other issues. I will certainly mention it again tomorrow in regards to the neurological side of things.

[sandgrubber]

Good on you for taking in older fosters.

Epilepsy is alarming and in the extreme, can be deadly. But milder versions are easy to cope with once you get over the initial terror.

It sounds like you have a good vet. I would take his or her advice.

You've probably been told already, but many cases of epilepsy respond well to phenobarbitol (sp?), and though it's a controlled substance, it's cheap, and no harder to give than any other little pill. Monitoring pheno levels in the blood can get expensive, depending on what sort of laboratories are available in your area. It may be easier to start with the 'recommended' dose and decrease if symptoms are fully controlled . . . or increase if they aren't.

[stari]

Our staffy had epilepsy, we had blood tests to rule out any underlying issues but he was perfectly healthy apart from the seizures.

We had him on Epibrom and Phenomav, highest doses of both and he was still having weekly seizures. Side effects were increased appetite, always drinking water (presumably he had dry mouth which people also get from medications) and problems with digestion.

We made the decision in May to PTS as he had three seizures in less than 2 weeks, and he bit my husband quite badly after one of them, he came out of his seizures very disoriented and aggressive

[yellowgirl]

Good on you for taking in older fosters.

Epilepsy is alarming and in the extreme, can be deadly. But milder versions are easy to cope with once you get over the initial terror.

It sounds like you have a good vet. I would take his or her advice.

You've probably been told already, but many cases of epilepsy respond well to phenobarbitol (sp?), and though it's a controlled substance, it's cheap, and no harder to give than any other little pill. Monitoring pheno levels in the blood can get expensive, depending on what sort of laboratories are available in your area. It may be easier to start with the 'recommended' dose and decrease if symptoms are fully controlled . . . or increase if they aren't.

Thanks sandgrubber, I adore the oldies :) and yep, so lucky to have an awesome vet

I had a good chat to the vet and Raffi has been on Phenobarbitone since Monday. He's starting on the lowest dose and I'm keeping track of his episodes. Nothing on Monday, but 3 yesterday, and so far, none today.

Our staffy had epilepsy, we had blood tests to rule out any underlying issues but he was perfectly healthy apart from the seizures.

We had him on Epibrom and Phenomav, highest doses of both and he was still having weekly seizures. Side effects were increased appetite, always drinking water (presumably he had dry mouth which people also get from medications) and problems with digestion.

We made the decision in May to PTS as he had three seizures in less than 2 weeks, and he bit my husband quite badly after one of them, he came out of his seizures very disoriented and aggressive

Aww, your poor Staffy, Stari and poor you... that wasn't very long ago *hugs* . He must have been so confused to have bitten your husband. That would have been scary seeing him come out of the seizures so confused and aggressive. I'm really sorry you had to make such a hard decision.

Raffi doesn't seem to have had any side effects yet but I'll continue to monitor him and keep in contact with the vet.

[zeebie]

Sadly it is just a fact of age with little dogs that things start to go wrong, his serum glucose is a bit low which could mean he is having low blood sugar episodes which in turn can cause seizures. Some of the liver function tests are elevated which could be related to a long time unhealthy diet or maybe he is a little over weight now (hard to tell when you don't know history of dog etc) also increases indicate high fat content in diet and an aging liver not coping.

another aspect is if this is happening more often when he is sleeping he could have sleep aponea which means he is breathing more shallow and the oxygen/carbon dioxide level in his blood changes and this would trigger an event as his brain became deprived of oxygen rich blood, not much you can do about this one again is just the aging process.

To test the low blood glucose theory, try giving him a pre bedtime snack of milk with a little added sugar and if he has no more events problem solved.

as for the other little dog his sounds like events being brought on by lack of oxygen as he is active then suddenly drops and it is similar to a fainting episode in humans we faint to restore the blood to the brain, he could be in very early stage heart failure and therefore not getting enough circulating oxygen rich blood and the poor old brain is coping the worst of it. Fix for this little fellow would be less activity a more sedentary lifestyle as hard as it would be.