Toilet Training And Aggression Issues

[Sarelou]

Ok so I am sure this topic has been done to death but I am at my wits end. Please if anyone could help me. I have a 5 month old toy poodle. There are 2 issues that concern me the most. To give you the background of us - I have successfully trained 2 puppies previously to use paper or outdoors for toileting. No problems - one was a toy poodle, one was a staffy cross sausage dog (or something!). But this one is being a really hard case to crack. I am 7 months pregnant and I work full time and have been studying at tafe the last few months so I understand I haven't got as much time to train her as is required.

I have done the following

Segregated one room of the house for her only

Use key word for toilet time

Tried training her on paper, that fake grass stuff, and outside. (I know this may of caused some confusion - we are now strictly on paper only)

Praised RIDICULOUSLY for toileting on the paper

I have never rubbed her nose in accidents or told her off after the fact as I know dogs dont understand like that. But I do say UH -UH and pick her up if I catch her in the act and carry her straight to the paper (this usually results in poo splattered across the floor grr)

I take her to the paper first thing in the morning and before and after playing and eating.

Sometimes she uses it, mostly for wees but rarely for poos. She will poo elsewhere about 2 metres away from the paper on our floorboards. I can't understand this. I try to leave a piece of the dirty paper when the new papers get laid so that she can smell its where she needs to go. I keep the toilet in the same spot every time.

I would of thought by 5 months she would be trained but she just doesnt seem to understand. Sometimes when I am standing with her at the paper trying to encourage her to go she will look at me and shoot off into the loungeroom to go straight away. Chasing her with being so far pregnant isn't easy.

The other problem is she is snapping at my husband and I. Usually when she is on our bed (which is now banned - she isnt allowed in our room at all) and also when she is on our lap and we pat her back. I can be patting her fine and then she just turns growls and snaps. She bites. I never expected this as my last poodle wouldnt hurt a fly. This one has made us bleed. I dont know if its dominance aggression or fear aggression?

She always used to growl from a baby if we moved her when she was asleep, which made me think dominance, but then the hand patting on the back made me think fear as she cant see the hand?

Please if anyone can help with either of the above. I know if I could be with her 24/7 obviously this would help but it just isnt an option as I work. I really want her trained so she isnt soiling our floors before our baby arrives. Thanks in advance.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Sarelou

[megan_]

She could be in pain and patting is hurting her. I'd get a full vet check first. If all is okay, given that you're about to have a baby, I'd call in professional help (a qualified behaviourist, not some wanna-be dog whisperer).

[LizT]

I agree with getting her Vet checked in case of pain or discomfort. Also, is the dog from a Registered Breeder who has temperament tested her parents or are the temperments of her parents an unknown quantity? Sadly, it may well be a case of poor breeding choices and if this has been a pattern for her since a small puppy will require some professional help from a good behaviourist.

Regarding her not pooing on paper, have you ever noticed if she starts out squatting on the paper but moves away during the course of opening her bowels? Many dogs do this, they feel the need to circle or move around to "keep things going".

[persephone]

I can be patting her fine and then she just turns growls and snaps. She bites. I never expected this as my last poodle wouldnt hurt a fly. This one has made us bleed. I dont know if its dominance aggression or fear aggression?

Welcome.

Ok... No playing around with this little one...I'm glad you came looking for advice :)

there are way too many things in the mix here - a teen pup, an advanced pregnancy, prospect of big changes, owners working,tension in the air ...

I suggest asking on here for a recommendation for a GOOD and reputable trainer/behaviourist who you can enlist to help you.

Once a dog has growled and drawn blood ..that is a case for experienced and professional help.

No, it isn't cheap ... then again... what price on safety and trust?

[Kavik]

I also think a vet visit is a good idea.

You could try putting her on a leash to prevent her from running off when you are encouraging her to go to the toilet in your toilet spot.

Is your eventual long term goal to have her toileting on paper inside the house?

[megan_]

If she's a bit shy lots of praise can actually be seen as a punishment - it is too overwhelming. Try happy but calm praise - "goooood girl".

[Sarelou]

I thought perhaps her microchip might be causing her pain but its too random, sometimes near her bum, other times at her neck, it seems as if she just goes "uh no, not comfortable with this, get away" and it doesn't explain the growling when she gets moved in her sleep?

She is purebred but I doubt the breeder is registered. She was my birthday present from my husband so unfortunately I didn't have the choice of breeder. I have seriously considered poor lines etc but I just don't know anything about that sort of stuff.

She doesn't even start her poo on the paper

I've tried keeping her on the lead on the paper too, it seems to work sometimes and not others.

Yes long term goal is paper - she is too un-trustworthy in our backyard, which is not dog proof so I'd feel more comfortable with her being on paper indefinitely. I am happy to clean it.

She seems to be very happy to get the praise, she jumps on my legs and wags her tail so I don't think she is shy.

She doesn't go all night even though there is paper in the laundry where I lock her overnight. So it makes me think its not just that she doesn't have control of her bladder yet.

I am taking Friday off work (and I don't work weekends) as she is booked in to be desexed. I am going to speak to the vet then and ask. I was wondering if maybe the desexing might help her temperament but I doubt it, I'm not that naive

I'll see what he recommends too. Thanks for the replies so far.

[persephone]

I'll see what he recommends too.

not a bad plan ..however most vets are much better at physical diagnoses than temperament ones ...and some vets will recommend you try so & so franchise that they deal with

have you though of putting up some fencing so dog can be safely out in the yard alone? She really NEEDS to be outside and experiencing sounds/scents and just relaxing .

What plans are in place when you need to be in hospital? who will be home with her when your OH is with you for a long period ..and when baby comes home .. you will have even less time/inclination to be with puppy doing toilet training/socialising ... getting behaviour help now will pay great dividends !! :)

Hope all goes well with her spey recovery.

[Sarelou]

yes that is a good point about the vet.. Our yard is so big and has lots of different side fences that aren't secure (its not a typical square backyard as such) and she is less than 2kg so can squeeze through so many gaps. I don't know that its something that can be achieved at least until after baby is born. I start maternity leave in 7 weeks so am planning on taking her for some good walks then daily, something I have not done seeing as it is so cold and I am working such long hours. I know that every dog needs this so I confess my sins.

She will more than probably spend some time with my in laws on their property when baby is due. She spent a week there just recently and is fine, they keep her inside and walk her on a leash just around the small fenced yard (although they have 140 acres lol) and she loves my mother in law so this shouldn't cause her undue stress and will be much better than being home alone and/or having no attention for a few weeks. I don't want her upset as she is quite human oriented.. They are also only about 20 mins from us so I should be able to still see her regularly during this time.

Would it be a wrong move to then have her come home and all of a sudden baby is there though? I have read up on baby/dog introductions and have tried to keep her out of the nursery so she knows its out of bounds but she is still so young I don't know that she understands.

[Kavik]

Could you fence off a small amount of the yard with secure fencing for her so she can have a little wander and run around? She wouldn't fit through chain link?

[persephone]

they keep her inside and walk her on a leash just around the small fenced yard

So, how socialised is this little one? has she been walked at all around streets/parks/shops etc?

does she enjoy a couple of good races around the yard doing zoomies/playing fetch each day :) ? Bet she does!

How is her temperament after you do your daily bit of obedience training ?is it more settled than before?

Where does she sit in the car when travelling ? This is also another thing to consider when baby comes home ..and to discuss with whatever professional you choose.

have tried to keep her out of the nursery so she knows its out of bounds

That's not a bad plan.. but the use of a solid barrier like a baby gate will be much more sure :)

pup also needs to look at /smell/hear all the new stuff ... same as baby's blanket/nappy etc before baby comes home ...

keeping her well away from sights/sounds/smells is stopping her investigating safely, and then taking in all this new information ...and there is less shock for her when it all happens , IMO.

[Dogsfevr]

What is the pup like when being brushed & groomed??

I gather she has had a haircut so what did the groomer say about her behavior??

[LizT]

What is the pup like when being brushed & groomed??

I gather she has had a haircut so what did the groomer say about her behavior??

Very good point Showdog! Being a Poodle she would have had to have maximum handling when bathed/groomed. Any growling then?

[Sarelou]

She doesn't seem to like playing with me! I don't know if its because I don't have the level of stupid enthusiasm my husband does lol but she doesn't go for it. If I sit quietly in the rocker then she is more likely to make fun by herself. Its strange. My husband plays with her and she loves it. We take her out with us whenever we can, she came to my grandparents last night and played with my younger cousins, I told them to be careful with her in case she growled but she was perfect. She loved it and was racing around, and then was very calm in the car on the way home and fell asleep in my arms even lol. I'm in the process of purchasing a baby gate at the moment. It will be used in the rumpus room (the room she is currently segregated in) and then once the toilet training is more under control and she is allowed in the rest of the house I will use it for the nursery, so thanks for that idea :)

I have been playing newborn crying on my laptop for her to get used to lol. She doesn't bark or anything just pricks up her ears and tries to figure out what it is haha.

I have been washing, brushing and blowdrying her every week since we got her and also started clipping just her face and feet and bum area, she is ok about it, but she has bitten me when I try to comb knots out no matter how gentle I try to be. She had her first proper groom just a week or so ago and I warned the groomer as I thought it was important for her to know, but she said she was perfect.

I start to think she just doesn't like us as she is so good with everyone else

[Sarelou]

Oh and regarding car seating rules - If she is just in the car with one driver she sits on the passenger seat, we have a harness and seatbelt for her, and also a carrier but we don't tend to use it as she gets car sick in it Plus it makes her upset. The seat belt works well. Then if we are both in the car she sits on the passengers lap.

[Dogsfevr]

Maybe she feels unsure with you due to being pregnant

You keep saying growling when moved asleep.What do you mean ??Are you shifting the pup whilst asleep ??

If so chances are maybe you startled her doing this & she hasn't forgotten.

[LizT]

She doesn't seem to like playing with me! I don't know if its because I don't have the level of stupid enthusiasm my husband does lol but she doesn't go for it. If I sit quietly in the rocker then she is more likely to make fun by herself. Its strange. My husband plays with her and she loves it. We take her out with us whenever we can, she came to my grandparents last night and played with my younger cousins, I told them to be careful with her in case she growled but she was perfect. She loved it and was racing around, and then was very calm in the car on the way home and fell asleep in my arms even lol. I'm in the process of purchasing a baby gate at the moment. It will be used in the rumpus room (the room she is currently segregated in) and then once the toilet training is more under control and she is allowed in the rest of the house I will use it for the nursery, so thanks for that idea :)

I have been playing newborn crying on my laptop for her to get used to lol. She doesn't bark or anything just pricks up her ears and tries to figure out what it is haha.

I have been washing, brushing and blowdrying her every week since we got her and also started clipping just her face and feet and bum area, she is ok about it, but she has bitten me when I try to comb knots out no matter how gentle I try to be. She had her first proper groom just a week or so ago and I warned the groomer as I thought it was important for her to know, but she said she was perfect.

I start to think she just doesn't like us as she is so good with everyone else

If you warned the groomer that she has snapped when you've been working on knots it's more than likely the groomer used a soft muzzle on her, just to be on the safe side.

If she has bitten you and your husband on more than one occassion and drawn blood in the process it is really quite serious. Just because she is small doesn't make it any less a concern than if she is a larger dog (be assured I'm not suggesting you are not taking this seriously, clearly you are :) ). Sometimes we tend to make allowances based on the dogs size (or lack of), but as you will soon have a small child in the household this needs to be address sooner rather than later and it is unlikely anything suggested on an internet forum will give you the quick response you need. Other than perhaps a reference to a good dog behaviourist. I'm sure there have been many days where she is perfect for you and your husband too.

Did she get much socialisation/basic training when you first got her?

Edited June 27, 2012 by LizT

[LizT]

Maybe she feels unsure with you due to being pregnant

You keep saying growling when moved asleep.What do you mean ??Are you shifting the pup whilst asleep ??

If so chances are maybe you startled her doing this & she hasn't forgotten.

Hmmm..."let sleeping dogs lie".

Although I got the impression she snaps when you try to pat her on the back and bum when awake too.

[Sarelou]

I've been pregnant since before we got her so I don't know? Maybe dogs can sense these things though..? Yeah if she fell asleep with me when I was resting, or in bed at night as she did sleep with us for a little while, then if I moved or tried to get up or tried to move her so that I could get more comfortable she would growl. She sleeps in her own bed in the laundry now so it is no longer a problem but is an indicator of something I guess.

She didn't get much socialisation at first as she hadn't had her 12 week vaccination so I was told by the vet I couldn't take her out until I think it ended up being a week or so after that, so not until 13 weeks. We did have our young nephews over a few times though and she was always in love with them and perfect. You are right about me probably not taking it as seriously then if she was a large dog, its a very valid point.

Yes she can snap when patted when awake too.

The last few days she has been really good. I moved the newspapers yesterday to a few metres over to where she was pooing and now she is using them. A simple solution my husband suggested but we will see hopefully she doesn't choose a new spot!! She has only snapped once since we bought her home from my in laws which is a week today. Doesn't sound fantastic I guess but it is a definite improvement. I think having her segregated in her own area and really laying down the law and not budging is making her understand she isn't boss. Its still hard as I am at work all day but I am trying my best when I am home to spend enough time with her and playing with her, and the toilet training etc. I have been taking her coat on and off each morning/night as it is quite cold at night and I don't want her freezing in the laundry and she hasn't gotten antsy about it at all even though it has to go over her head so I see this as good also. She gets her desexing tomorrow so I will be focusing on looking after the poor little baby for the next 3 days (I am nervous for her, she is so tiny!) and then after this point if I can't see things improving (which I think they are so far) I will have to look into a behaviouralist. I am based in the Illawarra, NSW so if anyone has any recommendations I would be appreciative. Thanks to all that have replied so far.

[mumof4girls]

I would'really look at a behaviourist asap esp with a new baby coming and I would never let her be with babe alone, even if your nipping into the kitchen etc you just never know. :-)

Good luck and congratulations on your impending birth :-)