Niki8 Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 .in that case, I meant it would be 50/50... I have a Xbreed .. one herding, one hunting /retrieving and knew both his parents , and am an experienced dog owner. he is not much like either parent ..and is somewhat crazy . I can not really see an ounce of his father in his looks or temperament ..and size wise he is heaps larger than his mum..his coat is his own, and her temperament unfortunately escaped him :p so ... it is NOT 50/50 . I looked forward to getting him as I had a similar cross before ... wrong . Thanks :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 You can get puppies from rescue too... We have a Lab X Kelpie pup at our rescue - she's lovely... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 My boy is a disappointment ..and crazy, but I love him anyway :) He is 8 now . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 People who produce deliberate cross bred pups (I refuse to call them Breeders) are not inclined to health test the parents of any litters they produce. When people breed for money they do not spend money on trifles like that, it eats into their profits. The problem with falling for a crossbreed then wanting one just like it is that they are not predictable. If you find a Lab X Border Collie it may well be nothing at all like the one you have become smitten with. Pups will not simply inherit all the bits you like, you could get a pup with all the drive and go of a working border collie and combined with the solid statue of a lab you could have one heck of a handful. Purebred dogs are more predictable due to generations of selection for various traits and you are more likely to get the type of pup that suits your needs by going to a breeder who knows their stock and can match a pup to you, or go to a good rescue group and buy a grown dog that has been assessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leema Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Shame you're in NSW, Niki, because I have two beautiful Lab x BC x Kelpie young adults in rescue at the moment. :) For your interest: Jet: http://www.petrescue.com.au/view/163248 Mack: http://www.petrescue.com.au/view/163246 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I’ll be honest…I also looked up ads on puppies of this cross-breed and there are almost none…hm…so I wonder why if you mate two pure-bred dogs (one border collie and one labrador retriever) who have had their testing done (as for hip dysplasia and other medical conditions these breeds are susceptible to), why is it such an issue? Breeders of crossbred dogs are all under this illusion that crossing breeds makes all the health problems go away, so they don't health test for anything. They do not have to conform to any Code Of Ethics like an ANKC purebred breeder does and if a puppy isn't purebred with papers to match the microchip, you have absolutely no guarantee of what you are buying. A puppy could be a cross of several breeds or nothing like it is supposed to be and you ahve no comback if it grows up to look nothing like you expect. Crossbred dogs are bred purely for profit and having to do all the testing for two breeds would cost them more than they could make. Purebred dogs are bred for the love of the breed, to preserve and breed better examples of those breeds and most breeders are lucky to break even on costs. Many purebred breeders that do everything right, actually lose $1000s on their investment in the breed. As from what I have read, the first generation of these dogs should have ‘better’ health and be just something in between of both breeds as for their personalities as they get 50% from each of the parents. What you are referring too is hybrid vigour and it applies in wild populations of animals where survival of the fittest is the rule and you start with two of those survivors. Without health testing and no background on the animals involved there is no way to predict if the offspring would be healthy or not. As to personality/temperament, it varies a lot in both breeds and they are often in conflict with one another so you could get anything from one end of the spectrum to the other or just a very confused dog. When you breed you do not get 50/50 input from each parent on most things. So you could end up with the worst of both and a dog that is destructive and out sheds every other breed, like a Lab and scales fences and chases anything that moves as can happen with Borders. I have owned a Lab and many Border Collies and would defintiely not want a cross of those two breeds. There are a lot working bred Border Collie/ Kelpie crosses on farms and farmers have their reasons for each breeding but that is not a drastic cross because those two breeds have common origins. Just crossing two very different breeds for the hell of it thoug is asking for trouble. This a purebred forum to discuss ANKC registered breeds so you will not find any crossbred breeders on here, what you will find is dedicated, reputable, registered breeders who breed to a code of ethics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty&biscuit Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Have you ever looked up Australian Shepherds? They are similar to border collies, but not as much go, and not so serious. My boy is very well trained, always making me laugh, and looks just beautiful too. He can go a day without a walk, but once he's out, will try his best to keep up. Very very affectionate too. I agree with what most have said about cross-breeding...people doing it deliberately will be in it for the money, they are not following breeders COE, and you just don't know what you'll end up with. If you want a cross-breed please don't support these people, but rather, support rescue. If you're after a pure bred, then support an ethical breeder. Good luck with your search and please keep us updated :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niki8 Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 What is it that you want though? You are saying cross breed of two unrelated breeds. What is it that draws you to this? How about you start with what you are after in a dog and start from there: * Temperament * Exercise requirements * Trainability and how much training are you prepared to do, any dog sports or classes * Grooming - how much are you willing to do? * Size * Sociability with other dogs? Social butterfly, can be very upfront with meeting others, or more interested in you and 'working' than other dogs? etc I want a dog who needs lots of exercise and loves being outdoor (which both labs and border collies are)...I used to be a semi-professional dancer and spent lots of time training in the studios and outdoors...I want to stay fit and always wanted a dog and I feel now i would actually have time for it...I work only three days a week...as for training, I want to go through a proper training with my dog (go to puppy classes and than continue on with classes for more grown up dogs) - at the end of the day, I want a fairly big dog and I can't afford not to have him/her trained:-) I do actually prefer short-haired dogs. I want a dog who loves to play, being challenged but is also good with kids...I don't have kids yet but considering to have a kid in like 4-5 years...suggestions? LOL...thanks...much appreciated :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 The problem with crossing breeds is firstly you do not know the background of the dogs.A dog may look like a labrador or a collie but not being pure bred it may have any number of other breeds in it's more distant ancestry.This will impact on the overall temperament of the dog because behaviour traits can be passed down not just from the parent dogs ,but also from generations further back.Temperament does not split 50/50.Each time you cross you create more possibilities with regard to temperament. You could end up with a dog that looks like a Labradore but has a temperament that is nothing like one Sorry, maybe I havent't explained myself well...I was thinking of getting a pup from a pure-bred border collie and pure-bred labrador retriever...in that case, I meant it would be 50/50... it's still a mutt, go to a good rescue and get one from there if you are so dead set on buying a mutt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 What is it that you want though? You are saying cross breed of two unrelated breeds. What is it that draws you to this? How about you start with what you are after in a dog and start from there: * Temperament * Exercise requirements * Trainability and how much training are you prepared to do, any dog sports or classes * Grooming - how much are you willing to do? * Size * Sociability with other dogs? Social butterfly, can be very upfront with meeting others, or more interested in you and 'working' than other dogs? etc I want a dog who needs lots of exercise and loves being outdoor (which both labs and border collies are)...I used to be a semi-professional dancer and spent lots of time training in the studios and outdoors...I want to stay fit and always wanted a dog and I feel now i would actually have time for it...I work only three days a week...as for training, I want to go through a proper training with my dog (go to puppy classes and than continue on with classes for more grown up dogs) - at the end of the day, I want a fairly big dog and I can't afford not to have him/her trained:-) I do actually prefer short-haired dogs. I want a dog who loves to play, being challenged but is also good with kids...I don't have kids yet but considering to have a kid in like 4-5 years...suggestions? LOL...thanks...much appreciated :-) Labrador Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niki8 Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 Have you ever looked up Australian Shepherds? They are similar to border collies, but not as much go, and not so serious. My boy is very well trained, always making me laugh, and looks just beautiful too. He can go a day without a walk, but once he's out, will try his best to keep up. Very very affectionate too. I agree with what most have said about cross-breeding...people doing it deliberately will be in it for the money, they are not following breeders COE, and you just don't know what you'll end up with. If you want a cross-breed please don't support these people, but rather, support rescue. If you're after a pure bred, then support an ethical breeder. Good luck with your search and please keep us updated :D Thanks heaps:-) I haven't made my final decision, I want to take time with that...will look up the Australian Shepherd as well;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdie Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Also consider at the Smooth Collie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niki8 Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) What is it that you want though? You are saying cross breed of two unrelated breeds. What is it that draws you to this? How about you start with what you are after in a dog and start from there: * Temperament * Exercise requirements * Trainability and how much training are you prepared to do, any dog sports or classes * Grooming - how much are you willing to do? * Size * Sociability with other dogs? Social butterfly, can be very upfront with meeting others, or more interested in you and 'working' than other dogs? etc Thank you :) I want a dog who needs lots of exercise and loves being outdoor (which both labs and border collies are)...I used to be a semi-professional dancer and spent lots of time training in the studios and outdoors...I want to stay fit and always wanted a dog and I feel now i would actually have time for it...I work only three days a week...as for training, I want to go through a proper training with my dog (go to puppy classes and than continue on with classes for more grown up dogs) - at the end of the day, I want a fairly big dog and I can't afford not to have him/her trained:-) I do actually prefer short-haired dogs. I want a dog who loves to play, being challenged but is also good with kids...I don't have kids yet but considering to have a kid in like 4-5 years...suggestions? LOL...thanks...much appreciated :-) Labrador Thank you :-) Edited June 18, 2012 by Niki8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Daisy Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Maybe have a look at dogs in the Gundog group? Like a German Shorthaired Pointer, Golden Retriever, Vizsla etc http://gundogbreeds.com/home.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) Thanks heaps:-) I haven't made my final decision, I want to take time with that...will look up the Australian Shepherd as well;-) I think an Australian Shepherd might be a good choice, too because they are smart and tend to be a little more boisterous and exuberant than a border collie. As this is a purebreed forum, you probably should have expected the disapproval about cross-breeding. If you are really set on getting the border collie x lab combination - it is a fairly common mix and as people have pointed out, they end up in rescue all the time - keep an eye on the rescue threads or get in touch with one of the better rescue groups. The mutts of the world also need a home, too. I have a mutt (Kelpie/Border Collie cross) and a purebred Kelpie and love them both - I had a lab/bc growing up as a kid. ETA: Even with purebreds, that can be sharp variances in temperament/health/quality - dogs aren't machines so there are never any guarantees and there's sometimes a slightly misleading suggestion that purebred = certainty. Even in every litter, there are dogs with differing personalities and physicality. There are plenty of purebreeds around plagued with health or temperament issues. By getting a purebred from a good breeder though, what you do is increase your chances of having the dog that suits what you want/need from a dog and also a source of support when things go wrong. For instance, the breeder of my Kelpie was able to give us a dog that had the temperament to suit our family unit and was also prepared to take him back if things didn't work out :) Edited June 18, 2012 by koalathebear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niki8 Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 Hi guys, Thanks heaps for all your comments, even though I haven't replied to all of them yet, I am very grateful for them and have read every single one. Your comments make sense and won't definitely go for a cross-breed (unless it's from a shelter or a rescue group). Most likely though will go for a pure-bred dog :-) You have probably saved me another week or two trying to look up more info about cross-breeds, now I do have much better understanding why not to go for one:-) Also thanks that you have commented even though my post may have been offended some of you as pure-bred dog breeders. I truly hadn't believed anyone would reply to it or thought it would be deleted before anyone would have a chance to comment (being on the site of pure-bred dog breeders). I have learnt a lot today and maybe this post has helped also someone else who had been deciding between a pure-bred and a cross:-) Thanks lots and lots and have heaps of fun with your lovely dogs:-) Xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 It does sound like a Labrador would be a good fit with your requirements :) And yes as koalathebear mentioned, not all from the same breed are the same either, it pays to research breeders, see what sort of dogs they have, and talk to the breeder about your requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niki8 Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 It does sound like a Labrador would be a good fit with your requirements :) And yes as koalathebear mentioned, not all from the same breed are the same either, it pays to research breeders, see what sort of dogs they have, and talk to the breeder about your requirements. Thanks heaps Kavik, it means heaps to me:-) Yep, labrador was my first choice and think will stick to it:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I have heard Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retrievers (NSDTRs) referred to more than once as "the Border Collie of the Gundog Group" They might be worth a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 :) here's some reading for you. LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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