Husband Wants Me To Return Pup

[Clyde]

Actually it was me..and people who "know" me from DOL know I'm not a 'stirrer'

I agree. I didnt see it as stirring either. I only mentioned it was an old thread as sometimes people dont realise and then their thoughtful posts are often 'wasted' on the OP as they aren't around.

[tdierikx]

Sometimes old threads with good info could do with resurrecting now and then... never too late to learn from them, right?

T.

[Bullbreedlover]

Couple of issues.

Firstly chances are you will beat the demodex but what you see is a symptom of an immune system issue. Other immune related issues may show throughout its life. There is no way this dog should be used for breeding and anyone advising you that its good to go for that purpose ever is in desperate need of some quick education.

I advise you to post the pedigree of the pup explaining nothing more than the facts . That you purchased the dog and that in the best interests of the breed you are sharing the knowledge that it has demodex. This is stuff that every breeder of that breed could use to work toward health issues being eliminated .If it had won a championship you wouldnt hesitate to share its pedigree so people could use that as something to be aware of in selecting breeding dogs - why would you not do the same for health issues. You dont have to make public the breeder's reaction or similar but until people start sharing this stuff how on earth can we ever take it into account when we profile a pedigree.

In the meantime if you send the MDBA a copy of the pedigree and the vet notes the health notes will be added to our pedigree data base so that its recorded on future pedigrees for people to be able to see in the hope of breeding and owning healthier dogs. You dont need to be an MDBA member to send us this and have it recorded and its free. I would also like to have the name and prefix of the breeder via PM for future reference.

So even though this post is 6 months old. who in heck made MDBA God?

Why would they want to send MDBA a copy of the pedigree AND post a copy of the pedigree on DOL?

Thought you werent allowed to promote the MDBA on DOL.

Of course people always have things to learn but I think you overstepped the boundaries in what you have said. MDBA is not the be end and all of everything.

[asal]

Whilst it is true that Demodex is treatable and many dogs will never suffer from Demodex again generalised Demodex is definitely an far more serious issue and one that should certainly rule out the dog for breeding. Your Vet is correct an animal with generalised Demodex most probably has an inherited immune weakness and I would steer well clear.

x2

You may have a good chance of curing the problem and having no more issues once it has grown up... You could even show the dog once the condition is cured BUT you have to consider what you will do if this doesn't happen and you are still fighting this horrible condition in 12 months time.

As for "the breeder won't want it back" - if the pup has been purchased as a breeding prospect then it doesn't really matter what the breeder might want - it is not fit for purpose and you would have a very good case for a refund.

Generalised Demodex is very serious and no ethical breeder would brush it aside as anything less. (The jury's still out on localised Demodex)

Honestly I would take a step back. Of course you love your pup, but do you love the pup more than you love the good relationship with your husband? If the vet thinks this is serious and could be an on going (lifetime) problem then I would suggest a second opinion - ask your vet for suggestions - and reconsider when you have this additional information.

I don't think anyone can say for sure if this will be a lifetime problem, but the severity could be an indicator.

Sorry you have found yourself in this situation.

Been in this myself.

Bought a stunning potential stud boy, except not long after he arrived at 8 weeks hair began falling out and hot weeping skin began, my vet suspected the pup was reacting to the vaccinations, which was crashing his immune system. resulting in the same thing, Demodectic mange.

Some pups after ivermectin treatment recover fully after the immume system has had a chance to recover from the vaccinations stress.

some will always need to be permantently on low dose ivermectin for life and in my belief anyway not to be bred from in case the low immume system is hereditory.

its not easy to know which scenario you are looking at until the pup is months past its last vaccination and no more problems recur after the ivermection is stopped.

you will certainly know within 3 months if my experience is anything to go by, in my case the breeder not only refused to refund or exchange. even boasted this as a 'sign' of his good breeding????

yep still a breeder too.

[asal]

Couple of issues.

Firstly chances are you will beat the demodex but what you see is a symptom of an immune system issue. Other immune related issues may show throughout its life. There is no way this dog should be used for breeding and anyone advising you that its good to go for that purpose ever is in desperate need of some quick education.

I advise you to post the pedigree of the pup explaining nothing more than the facts . That you purchased the dog and that in the best interests of the breed you are sharing the knowledge that it has demodex. This is stuff that every breeder of that breed could use to work toward health issues being eliminated .If it had won a championship you wouldnt hesitate to share its pedigree so people could use that as something to be aware of in selecting breeding dogs - why would you not do the same for health issues. You dont have to make public the breeder's reaction or similar but until people start sharing this stuff how on earth can we ever take it into account when we profile a pedigree.

In the meantime if you send the MDBA a copy of the pedigree and the vet notes the health notes will be added to our pedigree data base so that its recorded on future pedigrees for people to be able to see in the hope of breeding and owning healthier dogs. You dont need to be an MDBA member to send us this and have it recorded and its free. I would also like to have the name and prefix of the breeder via PM for future reference.

So even though this post is 6 months old. who in heck made MDBA God?

Why would they want to send MDBA a copy of the pedigree AND post a copy of the pedigree on DOL?

Thought you werent allowed to promote the MDBA on DOL.

Of course people always have things to learn but I think you overstepped the boundaries in what you have said. MDBA is not the be end and all of everything.

according to my vet, the ingredients in some vaccines have very deterimental effects on a puppy health and immune system and its nothing to do with the pups genes. thats where the grey area sneaks in.

do we relly think collies and murry grey cattle are defective because they HAVE INTOLERANCE issues with ivermectin?

same scenario, different chemical

[Steve]

Couple of issues.

Firstly chances are you will beat the demodex but what you see is a symptom of an immune system issue. Other immune related issues may show throughout its life. There is no way this dog should be used for breeding and anyone advising you that its good to go for that purpose ever is in desperate need of some quick education.

I advise you to post the pedigree of the pup explaining nothing more than the facts . That you purchased the dog and that in the best interests of the breed you are sharing the knowledge that it has demodex. This is stuff that every breeder of that breed could use to work toward health issues being eliminated .If it had won a championship you wouldnt hesitate to share its pedigree so people could use that as something to be aware of in selecting breeding dogs - why would you not do the same for health issues. You dont have to make public the breeder's reaction or similar but until people start sharing this stuff how on earth can we ever take it into account when we profile a pedigree.

In the meantime if you send the MDBA a copy of the pedigree and the vet notes the health notes will be added to our pedigree data base so that its recorded on future pedigrees for people to be able to see in the hope of breeding and owning healthier dogs. You dont need to be an MDBA member to send us this and have it recorded and its free. I would also like to have the name and prefix of the breeder via PM for future reference.

So even though this post is 6 months old. who in heck made MDBA God?

Why would they want to send MDBA a copy of the pedigree AND post a copy of the pedigree on DOL?

Thought you werent allowed to promote the MDBA on DOL.

Of course people always have things to learn but I think you overstepped the boundaries in what you have said. MDBA is not the be end and all of everything.

Bullbreedlover some people want to send the MDBA their pedigrees and their health reports to enable that info to be used for others to be able to have accurate info to profile their pedigrees - considering its voluntary, and free and benefits no one except the dogs its hardly what I would call promoting the MDBA. My post may have read that I was advising her to post the pedigree on dogz but that's not what I meant .My advice is for anyone who has a dog which has a health condition to share that info rather than keeping it quiet to enable others to use the info for what is best for the dogs. Every other organisation, club or group can be mentioned here without the person mentioning them being gagged and censored.

I didn't say the MDBA was the be all and end all of everything I told her that the MDBA provides this service to the dog world if she would like to use it.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Steve

[Steve]

Couple of issues.

Firstly chances are you will beat the demodex but what you see is a symptom of an immune system issue. Other immune related issues may show throughout its life. There is no way this dog should be used for breeding and anyone advising you that its good to go for that purpose ever is in desperate need of some quick education.

I advise you to post the pedigree of the pup explaining nothing more than the facts . That you purchased the dog and that in the best interests of the breed you are sharing the knowledge that it has demodex. This is stuff that every breeder of that breed could use to work toward health issues being eliminated .If it had won a championship you wouldnt hesitate to share its pedigree so people could use that as something to be aware of in selecting breeding dogs - why would you not do the same for health issues. You dont have to make public the breeder's reaction or similar but until people start sharing this stuff how on earth can we ever take it into account when we profile a pedigree.

In the meantime if you send the MDBA a copy of the pedigree and the vet notes the health notes will be added to our pedigree data base so that its recorded on future pedigrees for people to be able to see in the hope of breeding and owning healthier dogs. You dont need to be an MDBA member to send us this and have it recorded and its free. I would also like to have the name and prefix of the breeder via PM for future reference.

So even though this post is 6 months old. who in heck made MDBA God?

Why would they want to send MDBA a copy of the pedigree AND post a copy of the pedigree on DOL?

Thought you werent allowed to promote the MDBA on DOL.

Of course people always have things to learn but I think you overstepped the boundaries in what you have said. MDBA is not the be end and all of everything.

according to my vet, the ingredients in some vaccines have very deterimental effects on a puppy health and immune system and its nothing to do with the pups genes. thats where the grey area sneaks in.

do we relly think collies and murry grey cattle are defective because they HAVE INTOLERANCE issues with ivermectin?

same scenario, different chemical

Correct however, as you know if the info is kept and recorded for all of the ancestors sometimes you can see a pattern and work toward preventing any more pups being born which may suffer the same issues.

[asal]

once upon a time drugs were tested for safety before released onto the market.

where did the change slip in we now need to select for those whose genes can cope with it?

gene change to tolerate changes in chemical attack even food composition changes dont happen even over a 250 year time span as gluten intolerance is becomming ever more realised to be far more widespread than previously realised.

a disturbing number of humans have not evolved to cope with the change in gluden levels in the 'modern ' cereals.

its now been discovered horses are having similar digestion problems effecting their health and well being, again their systems have not adapted to cope with the rising gluten levels in cultivated cerels over the 250 yr time frame its been "improved" from the ancient grains found in egyption buriel sites.

apparently to evolution 250 years isnt a second in evolutionary time frame, so if digestion genes havnt evolved to cope with that does make you wonder how much time is needed to evolve to cope with climate change, scary thought

[Missymoo]

Well I just hope things turned out for both pup and owners!

[MarieEvans]

Young dogs have inherently immature immune systems and are thus susceptible to the development of demodicosis without any sinister underlying diseases. As they grow up and their immune systems mature, they tend to naturally gain control of their mite infestation; in fact, 30-50% of dogs under age 1 year recover spontaneously from generalized demodicosis without any form of treatment. Usually treatment is recommended, though, to facilitate recovery.

What is the breed of your dog? You can use Ivermectin, Moxidectin or Interceptor.

[Steve]

It is still not a good thing to use them for breeding.