Practical Solutions To Problems

[SkySoaringMagpie]

There are some serious things being put in the light hearted thread including requests for advice. Sway has already pointed out that it's supposed to be a light hearted thread so let's shift those requests to this thread. Can we please stick to practical solutions and get beyond ranting "but they shouldn't...." because no amount of "they shouldn't..." written on the internet is going to change anything or empower anyone.

ACDs4Life asks:

Crowding - while either gaiting or stacking your dog, there is something so rude about having someone (deliberately) jammed up behind you. I understand if you are going quicker than the dog in front you can pass behind them. What is the correct protocol if someone is crowding you? Move forwards if stacked or slightly inwards if gaiting? Looking for input / suggestions here please; it's getting frustrating.

In the line up, leave an extra dog length in front of you to move into once the person behind has stacked their dog - don't move into that space until they've stacked their dog. If they move up on you again, say to them "don't crowd my dog please". If they tell you to move up, just politely but firmly say no, my dog needs space. Likewise if the person in front of you is baiting their dog so it shoves its butt into your dog's face, put yourself between that dog's butt and your dog's head. Don't let you or your dog be shuffled around by people taking your space.

On the move the most popular advice is to stop and let them run into you but I don't think this is wise as you need to be skilled, strong and agile enough to ensure that the dogs don't get hurt because of their owners' little games. People won't overtake and you can avoid running up on someone in most situations so doing it is either lack of skill or a deliberate tactic. If the person has been showing for more than a year, it's probably the latter - you'll notice that they don't run up on those who won't tolerate it. Options you could consider include:

- don't be nice and wait for the person behind you to set their lead but just take off (if you know they are a serial offender).

- before you take off, tell them clearly but politely in a confident well modulated voice so the steward and judge can hear "Give me space please".

- make a fuss if they do it anyway "I asked you nicely to give me space and you're running on me anyway? Why?"

- If your dog doesn't care you could try making a game of it with the dog and chattering in a loud sing song voice "he's trying to put you off, isn't that funny? We know that won't work!"

Don't take it too seriously, someone used this to absolutely hammer me when I was new and I took it pretty personally. I still think bullying weaker people isn't exactly a great character recommendation, but it is a big game and you can make yourself a harder target.

[ellz]

Yep...crowding whilst gaiting, make sure your dog is safe and then stop. Suddenly. The person pushing you along will look like a tosser! :laugh: Seriously though, if they are really annoying you, you are within your rights to stop and ask them to back off (politely). Alternatively, step slightly sideways and allow them room to go around you on the outside.

Crowding in a lineup is easily managed. YOU own the space directly in front of you. Always leave room in front. Wait until the person behind has set their dog up and then move your dog into YOUR space and set it up. If they crowd you then, move forwards (into ring centre) until you have the space you need. If the ring steward has half a brain, this will cause them to notice your difficulties and they SHOULD intervene and ask the lineup for better spacing.

As a funny aside, I've seen an entire lineup trying to outdo each other and gradually inch forwards until they were ALL standing in the centre of the ring almost on top of a rather bemused judge who saw what was happening and decided to have a little fun! :)

[Allerzeit]

As a funny aside, I've seen an entire lineup trying to outdo each other and gradually inch forwards until they were ALL standing in the centre of the ring almost on top of a rather bemused judge who saw what was happening and decided to have a little fun! :)

Oh, now THAT would be worth seeing! :laugh:

[Meea]

These suggestions put the onus on the competitor - how about the steward who should be controlling the ring. Being forced/encoraged into the ring without regard for the speed of the dog in front.

I have a running dog who has to go in after a teeny breed and often have to ask for a bit of time so as to a) give my dog an opportunity to run as he should and b)

Not freak out the littly in front.

Cudos to judges who split by the group by speed.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

These suggestions put the onus on the competitor - how about the steward who should be controlling the ring. Being forced/encoraged into the ring without regard for the speed of the dog in front.

I have a running dog who has to go in after a teeny breed and often have to ask for a bit of time so as to a) give my dog an opportunity to run as he should and b)

Not freak out the littly in front.

Cudos to judges who split by the group by speed.

Just typed out a reply and then lost it. In NSW the steward does everything from assembly to the paperwork. They are often busy calling and writing while the dogs are going around. Also, wily competitors know their judges and stewards and they know who runs a tight ship and who will turn a blind eye.

It may not be fair, but the one thing that is within the competitor's control is their own reaction to people trying to push them around.

[ellz]

These suggestions put the onus on the competitor - how about the steward who should be controlling the ring. Being forced/encoraged into the ring without regard for the speed of the dog in front.

In an ideal world, the steward would be on the ball, however in OUR world, there are many stewards who don't cut it. That said, it's a thankless task so in many cases it is far easier for the exhibitor to take responsibility for their own actions and deal with their own ringcraft.

I have a running dog who has to go in after a teeny breed and often have to ask for a bit of time so as to a) give my dog an opportunity to run as he should and b)

Not freak out the littly in front.

And this is an example of YOU using your nous and knowing what speed you need to take for your dog. And, as I said, OWNING the space in front of you. As for not freaking out the little dog in front....that's very courteous of you and I'm sure that most show exhibitors feel and/or do the same, but at the risk of upsetting other people I would have to say that if a dog running behind another dog is sufficient to freak it out, then perhaps the dog doesn't have a good "show temperament" anyway?? Exhibiting dogs is about you presenting your dog in the best possible way YOU can, not you worrying about the handling or temperament of the dog in front of you.

Cudos to judges who split by the group by speed.

Personally, I don't like judges who split the group by their particular interpretation of speed. Unless they are very experienced, it is easy to assume that a smaller dog won't move out as well as a larger dog when the opposite can be completely true.

[Inevitablue]

Proof your dog to an inch of it's life! Nothing better than having a bombproof dog and giggling at futile attempts to put your dog off :laugh:

[brintey]

I have a big fast-moving dog. My show trainer says to simply move to the outside of the ring and overtake the slower dog on the outside. You are not disadvantaging the slower dog because it is still the one closest to judge's line of vision and you are not disadvantaging your own dog by suddenly having to stop it or pull it up hard. When you have finished your lap just allow a big space for the slower dog to pull in in front of you in the lineup. Makes sense and works for me, particularly as the steward doesn't always allow me enough time to leave a decent gap.

The only time this has been a problem was recently in Newcastle when I had a border collie in front of me, which had a slower dog in front of it, so the border collie moved right to the outside to avoid the slower dog, and my dog, being faster than the border collie, tried to move to the outside of it, nearly a three-dog pileup LOL!

I've never had a judge split a group by speed, but given that there are fast and slow moving exhibits within each breed, how does this work?

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I've never had a judge split a group by speed, but given that there are fast and slow moving exhibits within each breed, how does this work?

Probably depends a bit on the group. I think it makes sense in our group to move the Dachshunds together for example, and right behind the Dachshunds is often a Deerhound who will cover several Dachshund lengths in a single stride even if it's a slow mover.

[Meea]

This! Sigh

Does anyone know why they dont go under country of origin - everyone else seems to??? I long to line up after the speedy salukis.

[Rebanne]

I've never had a judge split a group by speed, but given that there are fast and slow moving exhibits within each breed, how does this work?

Probably depends a bit on the group. I think it makes sense in our group to move the Dachshunds together for example, and right behind the Dachshunds is often a Deerhound who will cover several Dachshund lengths in a single stride even if it's a slow mover.

or, in my case, a greyhound!

[ACDs4Life]

Thanks all for some good ideas ... owning the space in FRONT of you is a handy tool as well as knowing you can go outside the dog in front, and being able to ask for room. Is it ok to tell the steward BEFORE your class that you don't want to be crowded by a following exhibit that has a history of doing so?

[SparkyTansy]

I have learned from watching other, polite, experienced handlers and how they deal with crowding or moving behind slower dogs. I had a slower moving dog at one point and never in all my time did the other handler ever crowd me or overtake me, they'd simply take a wider circle allowing me room and allowing their dog to move quicker. in time I learned that taking a slightly smaller circle for my slower dog would benefit us both. I now show faster movers and I am right at the end of the line up most of the time in the groups. I tend to leave a fairly big gap before i enter the ring most of the time even with a faster moving pointer, just to make sure I am giving them space and allowing my girls to be able to move to best advantage them. works for me.

The only other issue I've experienced was in a different breed with a notorious crowder and stomper. Luckily the dog I showed was quite bombproof and no amount of crowding affected us and our performance. this person was also notorious for shadowing so as someone said above I'd always leave a nice space in front and wait a bit before stacking my dog because they'd move right forward to stack.

[Dogsfevr]

I am currently showing a dog in another group & have to say that breed takes the cake for displaying every aspect of bad sports or poor ring form .

Some prefer to play the game more .

I have no trouble speaking up if there affecting my dog.my dogs are fine with what ever is thrown at them BUT i will not tolerate people who have no care for another dog no matter who owns it.

First rule is don't get sucked into the game ,judges & outsiders are good at seeing the bad display in the ring & i am finding judges are speaking up more & more now.

Personally i think the stewards especially if there is only one aren't there to be the ring moderator ,there job is hard enough without having to be the umpire & as someone who has stewarded you can get varying versions of ligit complaints to those who are also serial whingers trying to create mischief themselves & making out there the one who is being affected when they aren't.

Video cameras can also be a wonderful tool .

As for the shadowers they peeve me off the most .

Although the laughable part is these idiots seem to have n clue how it affects there dogs in the ring

For people that seemingly want to win at all costs showing there dogs like a normal person brings out the best

[mirawee]

These suggestions put the onus on the competitor - how about the steward who should be controlling the ring. Being forced/encoraged into the ring without regard for the speed of the dog in front.

I have a running dog who has to go in after a teeny breed and often have to ask for a bit of time so as to a) give my dog an opportunity to run as he should and b)

Not freak out the littly in front.

Cudos to judges who split by the group by speed.

I had to go in after a Mini Dachshund once for Puppy in Show runoffs. The steward noticed me standing (wich my fast moving Finnish Lapphund) not entering and repeated "all in together" I just looked at him, looked at the Dachy who had only gotten about 3m into the ring and looked back again and he laughed and said "ok go in as soon as you have room" :laugh: The stewards are often so busy organising everyone they don't have time to think how fast the dog in front is likely to move :)

On the same note if I have GSD behind who are handled by people I don't know I tend to remind them that their dog will move much faster than mine and to leave a bit of room ;)

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Thanks all for some good ideas ... owning the space in FRONT of you is a handy tool as well as knowing you can go outside the dog in front, and being able to ask for room. Is it ok to tell the steward BEFORE your class that you don't want to be crowded by a following exhibit that has a history of doing so?

I wouldn't. I would deal directly with the exhibitor.

[ellz]

Thanks all for some good ideas ... owning the space in FRONT of you is a handy tool as well as knowing you can go outside the dog in front, and being able to ask for room. Is it ok to tell the steward BEFORE your class that you don't want to be crowded by a following exhibit that has a history of doing so?

I wouldn't. I would deal directly with the exhibitor.

Me too...the steward isn't there as a mediator.

[Joan of Arc]

i have been in the line up where the exhibitor behind me has been crowding us to the extent of allowing thier dog to jump all over us - both me and the dog - I did all the right things, made the joke of it 'Oh Look, he wants to play - but we know its work time now" and several similar comments - quite loud enough for two other exhibitors to hear me. No response positive or otherwise. Next day when we were in the same line up I asked the steward very politely to allow me some room before sending in the next exhibit, which they very nicely did.... so the other exhibitor waited until the entire line up was stacked up, picked up her exhibit and walked about two foot infront of the rest of the line... and was not sent back....

[LizT]

When going round in a circle I find if the dog in front isn't going at a decent pace I just make my cirle wider. It's something I learned while showing horses, you don't run up anyones bum. It's not that hard.

[Alyosha]

The other related issue here is exhibitors who deliberately slow up in front of others to hinder their competitors' chances at moving their dogs effectively. I use to show in a breed with a serial offender in this regard. After a disastrous class where my dog and I had to come to a complete stop three times in one lap while this exhibitor stopped their dog and tried to re-gait them over again I had to learn to give them at least half a ring head start - and explain to the steward "I need to leave that exhibitor plenty of space".

Games can be played in both directions, running up the back of others and slowing up in front of them.