Chequeredblackdog Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Not sure if this has been addressed in a previous thread, if so please ignore this one! I know blue SBTs get a bad rap for their colour- not conforming to breed standard, skin issues, appeal for their "rarity" and being overpriced, but is this the case with ALL blue/ dilute colored dogs, regardless of breed? For example Neapolitan Mastiffs, Great Danes, Border Collies and Whippets? Does the dilution gene simply cause problems Or does it only become a problem when people breed solely for colour? In this instance I'm more interested in the health aspects rather than the other issues of price etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jade~Harley~Bella Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 From what I've read it is normally is only an issue when people breed for colour. "Blue" dogs should have a certain percentage of blue dilute or something. Not sure what it is though.. I am sure there are many more knowledgeable people here that know. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Kelpies suffer from Colour Dilute Alopecia. Finnish Lapphunds don't. There is some study that indicates its not the colour but some genes close to the dilution gene that cause the problem- so not all dilutes will have the problem but it does have a high correlation in breeds where colour dilute alopecia is noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podengo Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Fawn and blue Dobermans (dilutes of red and black) get colour dilution alopecia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chequeredblackdog Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 Yes that's what I was wondering about, I have heard about Dobes and Kelpies having problems with alopecia, does this apply to breeds what blues/ dilutes are more common? For example the colour of the Neapolitan Mastiffs seem ( at least in Australia) to be predominantly blue. Are they as effected by the associated problems that seem come with being blue? Or is there 'different blues'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Blue Border Collies are generally fine except a lot have very little hair on the ear tips as puppies. It grows in as they get older though and is normal in adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Blue Whippets generally seem fine. It does seem though int he breed as there are no disqualifying colours people tend to not worry so much about breeding for colour. Maybe if someone was trying to breed blue and breeding Dilute to dilute repeatedly then maybe it would become more of an issue? Not sure but I have seen and heard of many blue Whippets with no issues, or none more than the general population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 It is only the dilutes that can suffer from this form of alopecia. Both parents must be carriers. As a general rule of thumb, if both parents are the dilute colour and/or the majority of pups in the litter are a dilute colour I would not recommend the pups be bred from, and there is a strong chance of alopecia. If the odd blue turns up in a litter, there is less chance that it will suffer from alopecia. Blue merles are not at risk, dilute blues and dilute fawns are. Other species also have this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 This has been an interesting thread for me :) My fawn girl has a not-great coat, she has double coat around her neck and on a stripe down her back, but just a thin single coat on her sides. I've tried to find out if this is normal because I've seen it on other fawn kelpies in photos, but didn't really know what to look up. It hasn't gotten any worse since we got her 20 months ago though so we don't worry about it too much, it just means she snuggles up to us more when it's cold :D I also just did some googling and found speculation that dilute is linked to a poorer immune system. We can't take Chess off Advocate because last time we did she got demodex So I wonder if there's something in that too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I have not heard of any problems with blue Danes here in Australia. But, when I was on a Dane forum that was primarily populated with US members, I found out that blue Danes over there were suffering from similar problems as the Blue Staffords are here, i.e. blue became a very popular colour and a lot of people began unethically breeding for the blues, with no care for health, structure and temperament. Consequently there were a lot of blue Danes suffering from allergies and bad skin and a multitude of other problems as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I have not heard of any problems with blue Danes here in Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trifecta Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 This has been an interesting thread for me :) My fawn girl has a not-great coat, she has double coat around her neck and on a stripe down her back, but just a thin single coat on her sides. I've tried to find out if this is normal because I've seen it on other fawn kelpies in photos, but didn't really know what to look up. It hasn't gotten any worse since we got her 20 months ago though so we don't worry about it too much, it just means she snuggles up to us more when it's cold :D Could also be thyroid related. I had a BC x Kelpie many years ago who had a sparse undercoat on her sides just as you describe. A vet we did obedience with suggested to me she could have had blue breeding behind her, but as time wore on she started to show signs of hypothyroidism which was confirmed by tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) Thanks Trifecta. We did have a vet nurse at the house once who suggested hypothyroid, but she doesn't show any other symptoms and her coat has been the same since we've had her. She''s only just under 3yo though so we're keeping it in mind and at the first sign of any other symptoms she'll be straight in for blood tests :) Edit - Chess's 'stripe' This one is after a trip to the beach, so she's a bit scuffed up from towelling - Edited June 9, 2012 by Weasels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) I have 2 blue whippets and they are smaller and finer in bone than most whippets I see. From what I've read about both black and blue whipets they are often either finer or coarser in bone than other whippets. Their coats are quite different to each other, Kibah the mother has a thicker coat than her daughter Feather who in places is bald, but it is NOT alopecia. She just has a very fine coat. They are both very healthy whippets and I often think the modern whippet is getting too big, so their fineness suits my taste. They are more like the whippet of old. Neither have skin problems apart from some years they've had grass irritations, but then so have some of my other whippets who are brindles and parti colours. Edited June 9, 2012 by Kirislin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Thanks Trifecta. We did have a vet nurse at the house once who suggested hypothyroid, but she doesn't show any other symptoms and her coat has been the same since we've had her. She''s only just under 3yo though so we're keeping it in mind and at the first sign of any other symptoms she'll be straight in for blood tests :) That is a very common coat for a dilute Kelpie- And is linked to the colour dilute alopecia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Thanks Trifecta. We did have a vet nurse at the house once who suggested hypothyroid, but she doesn't show any other symptoms and her coat has been the same since we've had her. She''s only just under 3yo though so we're keeping it in mind and at the first sign of any other symptoms she'll be straight in for blood tests :) Edit - Chess's 'stripe' This one is after a trip to the beach, so she's a bit scuffed up from towelling - Mason has normal hair on his trunk but down his back its dry and dead because it doesnt shed to his allergy meds. Had thyroid tests etc but all normal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 That is a very common coat for a dilute Kelpie- And is linked to the colour dilute alopecia. That's good to know, thanks :) I've never seen another fawn or blue kelpie in the flesh so it's good to have the DOL brains trust :) It's times like this I really wish I knew something about her origins. Mason has normal hair on his trunk but down his back its dry and dead because it doesnt shed to his allergy meds. Had thyroid tests etc but all normal Poor Mason Does his coat condition respond to a change in diet at all? (I know he's on a limited diet already). I can get Chess's shoulders and neck nice and shiny with a good diet but it still has limited effect on the short hair on her sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Weasels I am trying him on RC Hypoallergenic at the moment and after a week he s looking better :) not sure if it's the kibble or the weather etc guess time will tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Weims don't suffer from dilute alopecia, but they do have some skin issues cropping up now and then, as well as immune issues that they like to link to recessive genes. Weimaraners are one breed which has been bred for that colour for over a century... but from what I can tell they were carefully bred in Germany so perhaps any issues were bred out if they cropped up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Thanks Trifecta. We did have a vet nurse at the house once who suggested hypothyroid, but she doesn't show any other symptoms and her coat has been the same since we've had her. She''s only just under 3yo though so we're keeping it in mind and at the first sign of any other symptoms she'll be straight in for blood tests :) Typical symptoms of thyroid issue generally don't become evident until 70% of the thyroid tissue is destroyed - without looking it up I would hazard a guess that this would be on average when dogs reach about 5-7 years old. Our testing here in Australia is designed such that it detects thyroid around that level. Testing in the USA is more sensitive and thorough and can pick it up a lot earlier. Because the thyroid is responsible for the good function of just about every organ in the body, I'd rather a dysfunctional thyroid be detected and assisted as soon as it was known. But that's just me and my thoughts :). Edited June 12, 2012 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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