Red Collar Rescue Being Refused Access To Dogs In The Pound

[Tempus Fugit]

simone - i'm not sure if you are referring to greys left with vets to donate blood but basically they die, having "donated" all their blood at the same time.

I know this is probably a necessary evil - but it makes me sick all the same, poor dogs. :cry:

Not according to this and similar articles. I think if you Google on the subject you will find, at least in the US and UK, canine blood donors are well looked after.

[dwynwen]

Article about Red Collar & the pound issue

(article is pro red collar)

Hopefully the council and the shelter can sort out the issues and the dogs continue to get a second chance.

Council certainly has a responsibility to ensure they release dogs to an ethical operator and it looks to me like they're trying to ensure that the operator doesn't become overwhelmed.

(just going by the coverage - I'm not from there)

[Sheridan]

Surely, it is the pound's responsibility to ensure the dogs they release are suitable for rehoming. Perhaps they should take a lesson from ARF and have temp tests in the pound so only dogs that pass are released to the shelter.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

simone - i'm not sure if you are referring to greys left with vets to donate blood but basically they die, having "donated" all their blood at the same time.

I know this is probably a necessary evil - but it makes me sick all the same, poor dogs. :cry:

Not according to this and similar articles. I think if you Google on the subject you will find, at least in the US and UK, canine blood donors are well looked after.

The vet that took the particular Greyhound for this purpose had kept him for 4 years but he told me what is normally done with them when the trainer gives them to a vet for blood donor purposes. The owner is surrendering the dog in these cases, as dogs who can no longer or are no good for racing. I actually rescued the dog - the vet wanted the dog gone so I found the dog somewhere to go. Sadly he had a condition called "Pannus" which is easy to spot if you know about it - the vet must have known. That wouldn't have killed him but it does require medication. He didn't have a nice life at the vet either, he lived in a shed at the back with a concrete car space in front and slept on old sacks, didn't even have a coat ... I won't go on but I don't have anything nice to say about this particular person and have since discovered other things.

Greyhounds are used as blood donors as are other large breeds. Greyhounds are also used for research in Universities etc. They are nice natured and calm, won't bite or panic when needles are stuck in them and other things are done.

Beautiful dogs who continue to suffer all sorts of things in this greedy world.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

As for rescue groups taking dogs from the pound, you should temp test them first as far as possible but in some cases, certain behaviours can show themselves once they are in foster care.

At whichever point - pound or foster care - as a rescuer you either report the behaviour to the pound and say the dog isn't fit for rehoming or once in foster care, you put to sleep.

I've looked at the type of dogs this particular group takes and they appear to be a lot of large cross breeds, some with Staff/Mastiff in. If you weren't sure about a dog's temperament then it would be very stupid to pass it on.

I recently came across a small breed rescued by a group in Sydney that I would have recommended be put to sleep, it is vicious and a high risk dog, i'd say it will probably ruin the owner's lives - how cold they ever go anywhere and leave this dog in care for instance? Having people round is very difficult.

There is a difference between dogs who are fearful of people and will hide away and those who are actively aggressive and seek to attack people or other animals.

[tdierikx]

Red Collar Rescue also source dogs from Sydney pounds... I regularly see their name on Renbury dogs...

My worry would be that if they are housing more dogs than they can manage, then finding the time to temp test properly may be hard. It only takes ONE "off" rehoming for the rumours to start circulating...

T.

[Plan B]

As for rescue groups taking dogs from the pound, you should temp test them first as far as possible but in some cases, certain behaviours can show themselves once they are in foster care.

At whichever point - pound or foster care - as a rescuer you either report the behaviour to the pound and say the dog isn't fit for rehoming or once in foster care, you put to sleep.

I do hope Rescues seek a professional assessment in that case, before dumping dogs back at the pound or killing them left, right and center. After all, Rescues should be giving these dogs their best chance at life, and I'd find it highly unethical to be abandoning/killing them without professional assessment.

[Guest Ams]

RCR does euth dogs with unsound temperaments but Sharon spends a LOT of time working with them first to make sure they cannot be redeemed. Yes there are a lot of dogs there and I haven't been to the property myself but I can say that Sharon gives her heart and soul to these animals. She is slowly getting a support network around her to help with the dogs but this takes time and there is a lot more to this story with the Council but I'm not commenting as it is not my place to do so. She has rehomed a LOT of dogs and the one being referred to as unsound was taken into foster and then rehomed by a woman whom I am led to believe has duped a number of other rescues up here, placed with a friend of hers. Sharon will always give full disclosure on behaviours to any potential new home but as we know any dog will display different behaviours with different people in different circumstances. Please don't be too quick to judge her.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Ams

[Staffyluv]

I have only heard good things about her work, I know a couple of people who have adopted dogs via her. Be is a family member and she speaks very highly of the work they do...

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

As for rescue groups taking dogs from the pound, you should temp test them first as far as possible but in some cases, certain behaviours can show themselves once they are in foster care.

At whichever point - pound or foster care - as a rescuer you either report the behaviour to the pound and say the dog isn't fit for rehoming or once in foster care, you put to sleep.

I do hope Rescues seek a professional assessment in that case, before dumping dogs back at the pound or killing them left, right and center. After all, Rescues should be giving these dogs their best chance at life, and I'd find it highly unethical to be abandoning/killing them without professional assessment.

Quite. That's what a reputable rescue would do but they should also have a vast amount of experience before setting up a rescue, it's not something the average dog owner should be doing.

[tdierikx]

Are we forgetting that many foster carers are "average dog owners" dogmad? Yet most of us seem to be able to work out what new dogs may fit into our homes/packs... *grin*

We've been told that RCR does extensively work with dogs who may not be immediately rehomable straight from the pound - and does the right thing if they are deemed unsound... that can't be a bad thing, surely? There are a plethora of other groups who have no qualms about returning a dog to a pound for euthing... as it's a cheaper option... sad but true...

Like I said, it only takes one not perfect rehoming to get the rumour mill going... I'm sure most of us have been subject to that sort of thing too, right?

If council have deemed RCR's premises and staffing levels only suitable for 20 dogs, then that's what they have to work within. Then again, if one has a license for X amount of animals, they don't have to max it out all the time...

T.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

T - foster carers aren't running a rescue. Many foster carers are average dog owners, many have problems and that's why if you run a rescue and have foster carers rather than just do it all yourself, it's a lot of work. I did run Doggie Rescue's foster program (about 50 carers and ever changing dogs) and have foster carers now. They might have owned a few dogs in their life - 1 at a time - they might have fostered a couple of times, this in itself is not normally sufficient to run a rescue group or make decisions. If you ask a lot of people they can't deal with "onlead aggression" from a small dog, many can't deal with a dog who cocks it's leg when it first arrives. I've had one carer at DR who used to ring me several times a day for about 2 weeks whilst the new foster dog was settling in (had about 5 dogs over 2 years) - reporting all sorts of abnormal behaviours (in their opinion). Many people get told by friends that these behaviours mean a dog should be put to sleep ... We would have mass and most likely needless euthanasia if many normal dog owners were trying to run a rescue.

Edited June 11, 2012 by dogmad

[Sheridan]

And where did rescue 'experts' learn their skills'? What qualification did you have before starting to rescue?

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I can't speak for other people but I spent 3 yrs volunteering each weekend (1.5 full days) and during the week at the Animal Welfare League where I learned more about dog behaviour, only ever having owned one dog and living with/looking after friends' dogs since I was a child.

I then started volunteering for Doggie Rescue and worked at their shelters for 9yrs, including in the kennels. It wasn't until after 2 very intensive years that I felt comfortable to take on a pound dog that I assessed. I have spoken to many dog trainers and behaviouralists over the years, have researched and undertaken dog training etc. No formal qualifications yet. I have learned from others and from practicing what I have been shown by qualififed experts. I've got formal qualifications/work experience in Human Resources inc counselling, interviewing skills and these have been of great use for the voluntary role at DR as it included rehomings as well as foster carer management.

And I'm still learning ...

Edited June 11, 2012 by dogmad

[Sheridan]

And that's great but I suggest that most rescuers, including the majority of those here, don't put as much thought into it as you have and instead they learn on the job, so to speak. It's just as valid as any other method of learning. I also suggest that even the most experienced of rescuers fail now and again and those in glass houses, etc. I agree that every rescue needs to learn but perhaps the more experienced rescues could offer some gentle guidance to those less experienced rather than body slamming them off a cliff.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

And that's great but I suggest that most rescuers, including the majority of those here, don't put as much thought into it as you have and instead they learn on the job, so to speak. It's just as valid as any other method of learning. I also suggest that even the most experienced of rescuers fail now and again and those in glass houses, etc. I agree that every rescue needs to learn but perhaps the more experienced rescues could offer some gentle guidance to those less experienced rather than body slamming them off a cliff.

Always happy to help. I'm hardly "body slamming them off a cliff" as you suggest.

But the death/serious injury of dogs in foster care or when inappropriately rehomed does bother me a great deal and SOME of those people who are responsible for that, have not learned a lesson nor do ask/seek want any assistance. I don't mind other people rescuing, it's not a competition but I do mind when a dog suffers, in any way.

[mita]

I've had one carer at DR who used to ring me several times a day for about 2 weeks whilst the new foster dog was settling in (had about 5 dogs over 2 years) - reporting all sorts of abnormal behaviours (in their opinion). Many people get told by friends that these behaviours mean a dog should be put to sleep ...

That may explain the really good articles you used to write in the Doggie Rescue magazine about the basics of managing dogs. I collected them & found them very useful to apply.

[Greytmate]

And where did rescue 'experts' learn their skills'? What qualification did you have before starting to rescue?

There are no formal qualifications, but I believe the MDBA has a basic training scheme.

The main thing is that a rescue org should be acting on information from and deferring to qualified professionals from a range of areas. A system should be in place.

Vets, veterinary behaviourists, lawyers, accountants and other experts provide parameters for rescues to act and develop their policies. You don't need to have all the qualifications yourself, but you need experience and access to a very wide range of knowledge. And by acting in this way a rescue can prove that they have been acting responsibly, should anyone try to take action against them.

The rescues in most danger of coming under question are the ones that try to go it alone and do not have a network. Like any small business, the success of the rescue depends on good management. A big range of people skills and dog skills are required, and not everyone who ventures into the business of rescue has the management skills or experience to make their rescue a success. Not just in terms of numbers of dogs adopted, but satisfaction rate with the dogs that they do adopt out and retention of good volunteers. Help is out there, but if you run a rescue you need to take criticism and make the effort to get the information you need, make teh hard decisions, nobody is going to hold your hand and do it for you.

Padraic, you have it back to front. Ethical rescue is responsible for making sure the dogs that they sell are of adoptable quality. They are not responsible for the dogs they do not have the resources to rehabilitate, the ones they send to be euthanised. The responsibility for that goes to the dogs' original owner or breeder, because these dogs were marked for euthansia before they were made available to rescue. With the numbers now, rescue cannot rehabilitate every dog they take in, as it will result in long-term kenneling for problem dogs, volunteer burn-out and take resources away from rehoming the highly adoptable dogs.

[Greytmate]

Sorry, that last paragraph was directed at Plan B, not Padraic.

[nawnim]

And where did rescue 'experts' learn their skills'? What qualification did you have before starting to rescue?

There are no formal qualifications, but I believe the MDBA has a basic training scheme.

The main thing is that a rescue org should be acting on information from and deferring to qualified professionals from a range of areas. A system should be in place.

Vets, veterinary behaviourists, lawyers, accountants and other experts provide parameters for rescues to act and develop their policies. You don't need to have all the qualifications yourself, but you need experience and access to a very wide range of knowledge. And by acting in this way a rescue can prove that they have been acting responsibly, should anyone try to take action against them.

The rescues in most danger of coming under question are the ones that try to go it alone and do not have a network. Like any small business, the success of the rescue depends on good management. A big range of people skills and dog skills are required, and not everyone who ventures into the business of rescue has the management skills or experience to make their rescue a success. Not just in terms of numbers of dogs adopted, but satisfaction rate with the dogs that they do adopt out and retention of good volunteers. Help is out there, but if you run a rescue you need to take criticism and make the effort to get the information you need, make teh hard decisions, nobody is going to hold your hand and do it for you.

Padraic, you have it back to front. Ethical rescue is responsible for making sure the dogs that they sell are of adoptable quality. They are not responsible for the dogs they do not have the resources to rehabilitate, the ones they send to be euthanised. The responsibility for that goes to the dogs' original owner or breeder, because these dogs were marked for euthansia before they were made available to rescue. With the numbers now, rescue cannot rehabilitate every dog they take in, as it will result in long-term kenneling for problem dogs, volunteer burn-out and take resources away from rehoming the highly adoptable dogs.

I don't understand why I am being brought into this discussion. Leave me out of it thankyou