Cooked Food Or Raw?

[lushos]

Hi everyone - I am after all of your opinions on this please.

I have a 9 month old female puppy that I have been feeding Dr B's RAW diet to for the past 5 or so months. Once I had her on the RAW BARF food made by Dr B, I took her off royal canin kibble as advised by vet too.

The last 2 boxes of Dr B's I have had have been just awful quality - like watery and very mushy, and I can no longer see the vegetables that I used to in the patties.

Also, the smell of the food has gone from pleasant and bearable to just off putting and all food is still well within the expiry date stamped on packet.

Puppy also began to refuse to eat it, where she once ate the food with no problem at all... she ended up 4 meals with no food, which is when I cooked her up the following:

organinc beef mince 1 kilo, 4 tablespoons cottage cheese & 2 eggs into a frypan on stovetop and browned mince and mixed eggs into the mince - cooked in flaxseed oil.

I then grated up sweet potato, zuccini, carrot, celery(finely chopped) and broccoli (finely chopped)

I mixed all the RAW veges in a container and placed about a tablespoon and a bit into the meat mixture (approx 150g of the meat mix twice a day) at feeding time into the pups dish, so she had the meat, eggs, cottage cheese cooked & raw veges.

I also after a few days began to add a small handful of royal canin dry food into the mix - as I felt becasue the food was cooked, it would be OK to do so (???)

Pup has been receiving this for about a week now and she loves it and gobbles it all up at her feed times - no problem.

The issue is though, I would love to know is this sort of mix that I'm making suitable? I have been trying to find out on DR GOOGLE for days now and there is just so much conflicting diet info.

This morning, I decided to revert back to a RAW style of feeding and made my "mince mixture" the same as I have been, but obviosuly not cooking the meat and eggs and instead of flaxseed oil, I added flaxseeds (approx 2 and a bit tablespoons) to the RAW meat mix. Pup ate the RAW meat mix and loved it like that also...

She also has 2 chicken wings every second day

I would prefer to feed her RAW I think, as from what I experienced prior to the refusal to eat the dr B's BARF - everything (skin, poop, coat, eyes, breath & over all well being and even behaviour) was going really great, so I would love to keep making this mix for her..

My questions are

1. Is the mix I am making sufficient nutrtional wise

2. am I doing a better thing for my pup feeding RAW than cooked? the thing that has spooked me a little is whilst googling diets for dogs, I came across one piece of information that stated that cooking meat with eggs like that could give dog pancreatitis (I have no idea on truth of that) and of course, I freaked out a bit reading that

I would really love to hear any opinions and/or facts please - as everyone else here, I only want what is best for my girl!

thank you

[Airedaler]

It sounds as thought the BARF mix could have been frozen and allowed to thaw. I would speak the the place of purchase about the freshness of it, assuming this has not happened since you bought it.

I think if you feed your made up mix raw you will be giving your dog a good meal and raw is definitely better for your dog than cooked. You may also find making your own up, while maybe not as convenient is cheaper.

Good luck

Edited June 5, 2012 by Airedaler

[lushos]

It sounds as thought the BARF mix could have been frozen and allowed to thaw. I would speak the the place of purchase about the freshness of it, assuming this has not happened since you bought it.

I think if you feed your made up mix raw you will be giving your dog a good meal and raw is definitely better for your dog than cooked. You may also find making your own up, while maybe not as convenient is cheaper.

Good luck

BRILLIANT!

thank you for your quick response - I am actually happie making the RAW mix myself, as at least I know it is 100% organic meat (from an organic only butcher) and I know exactly what is going in to it..

I thought too it might have been the frozen BARF product thawing and then re frozen, but the last 2 boxes came from 2 different places, and they were both the same quality , texture , smell, so I just figured it was a decline in quality... not sure...

thanks again :)

[GeckoTree]

Yeah I feed mine raw chicken carcus and offal with various other stuffs from lenards, sometimes thawed when I don't get it into in the fridge quick enough It stinks to high heaven.

I can't get a source of patties where I am.

PS I don't agree it is cheaper than pre done, time in preparation compared to convenient patties is expensive in time and energy.

Depends upon the reasoning of $ to life I suppose, I am happy to float someone a few extra $ for doing the hard yards of preperation.

J.

Edited June 5, 2012 by GeckoTree

[Guest english.ivy]

I've started making my own raw [human grade] kangaroo patties, with a few vegies added. Usually only either pumpkin or peas.

Takes time to make and is messy but I know exactly what is in the food.

My two get one patty each a day mixed with their dry and they both love it.

I was buying frozen frosty paws but the water content seemed far too high when defrosted and there seemed to be no bulk in the food when I fed it so I was having to feed more, which in turn made me spend more money.

[becks]

Why make it into patties??

Mine get a variety of minces mixed with various veggies (i like to alter the mix and they also get fruit thrown in too) veg go into blender to pulverise them and spare gets frozen - both done to break down cell walls on the plants so the dog can digest them.

additions include in various meals, eggs with shell crushed, cottage cheese, bio yoghurt, oily fish

[Guest english.ivy]

Why make it into patties??

For human ease only. So I can freeze each day in a big batch and quickly grab the breakfast out of the freezer the night before.

My personal way of making raw feeding clean, quick and simple :)

[Tara8430]

I have been making my own patty's as well, Big bunch of spinach, cabbage, carrots and whatever other vegetables are cheap that week, blitz them up so i get a big bowl of raw vege. I know your not meant to have any grains (or so ive noticed on these forums) but ive been adding 1/2 cup cooked brown rice to the mix, and a couple of eggs and buying turkey or chicken mince and making pattys of chicken vege and rice or turkey vege and rice. I think i got about 16 150g pattys last time, and Abbey loves them thats all she gets for tea, i dont add any kibble to that she gets her 1 cup of kibble in the morning. I dont add any dairy, Abbey has a tablespoon of yoghurt Jalana A2 or something like that its called for lunch. She seems to be going well on this, red meat such as beef mince at this stage is still making her #2's a bit runny and lamb is deffinately a no go but shes 8 months now and doing well. She also gets the odd frozen 1/2 chicken frame of a weekend during the day after her big walk.

[Guest english.ivy]

I have been making my own patty's as well

It is so much easier hey, to have the patties in the freezer. I enjoy spending an hour or so every week making up their patties :)

I'm not fond of raw meat that is bloody and the way I'm making them now, there is hardly any blood at all.

I also add oat bran/rice too as I'm not against grains.

[Tara8430]

I have been making my own patty's as well

It is so much easier hey, to have the patties in the freezer. I enjoy spending an hour or so every week making up their patties :)

I'm not fond of raw meat that is bloody and the way I'm making them now, there is hardly any blood at all.

I also add oat bran/rice too as I'm not against grains.

Way easier, i too had been cooking up chicken and vegetables but after reading about raw ive converted :) Now i only cook up some chicken tendons when its cold and i feel bad feeding a cold raw patty im sure they dont care as long as its food (labrador owner haha) I also think that making your own is waaaaayyyyy cheaper, its just finding that hour when you run out of pattys to make more.

[GoldenGirl85]

You could try big dog's raw, from what I've heard this is the original Dr Bs raw, they patented the recipe and billinghursts had to change

[mumof4girls]

I used Dr B's patties but Rogue started to have loose stools so I changed to leading raw growth and have had no issues.. I also used big dogs but he also had loose motions I wonder if it is too rich.. I have all the stuff to make my own using Dr B recipee from his book so when Rogue is a bit older I will do my own.. I'm just worried as he is only nearly 8 mths that he is still growing and I don't want to have him lacking in anything I case I stuff up the rcipee lol.. Much better than dry food ick I don't feed grains though as I know of a few people that have had allergies from foods with grains in them..

Good luck :-)

[Salukifan]

Lushos, where is the calcium source in your dog's diet. I can't identify one.

Eta. Spotted the chicken wings but I'd be giving a calcium source every day.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[minyvlz]

I wouldn't worry about the calcium source everyday. Balance is over time not over a meal or a day.

[BCPuppy]

If you do a search for 'raw feeding' and tick the in topics only box you will find lots of interesting reading in this forum.

I have fed raw since my girl was 10 weeks old. I live remote so is difficult to get good kibble at a reasonable price. My basic recipe is raw roo, or chicken mince,I process a variety of vegies, cooked pumpkin, and some fruit once a month and freeze into small blocks. Her daily allowance is generally 50% meat & veg and 50% raw meaty bones, most butchers sell bones suitable depending on the size of your dog, and chicken necks are freely available. I add some offal once a week, omega oil daily, an egg occasionally, a sprinkle of probiotic. Once a week I assemble the whole lot, I feed 2.5% body weight, so all the bones go in a pile and get divided up into 7 lots, so I just grab a bag out of the freezer each day. Meat and vegies are assembled daily. Some days she only gets bones, a chicken frame is her whole days allowance.

As a puppy she got more offal, more eggs, some rice, and natural yogurt. Your dog is still growing so you might need to add some of these and more bones probably. Balance things out over a week.

This works for me, everyone finds their own routine, nothing is set in stone. I am lucky in that I have a large freezer in the shed that I fill with meat and bones on my large shopping excursions (about every 4-6 months). I too have had mince from leonards that was a bit smelly, but have found another leonards that only minces its frames and offcuts, not including the seasonings which is what seems to make it smell, and they keep it much fresher only processing daily. I also found a source of roo meat where I can get their miss labeled meat much cheaper, around $2.50 kg, a butcher where I get bones at $1 a bag. It is not really about keeping costs down though, I do like quality, and feel I am giving her the best I can at a good price. I have never really sat down and costed it out, but at a guess it works out to less than $10 a week. She is healthy, no allergies, good firm small poos ( the best thing about feeding raw :laugh: ) and has a great coat.

Good luck with your reading, some of it will seem confusing at first, daunting even, but just go with it!

[megan_]

I dint get the raw patties thing either - especially since billinghurst says raw meaty bones are best. How else are the dogs getting calcium? The only mince that I know that has bones in it is per chicken mince. Human grade mince has no bones at all. If you have their food minced up you don't get the benefits re: teeth cleaning either.

I feed a combination of raw meaty bones and premium dry. Simple.

[Salukifan]

I wouldn't worry about the calcium source everyday. Balance is over time not over a meal or a day.

On the other hand, constant imbalance is hardly ideal. The calcium/phosphorus ration in a growing pup NEEDS to be balanced. Too much meat off the bone will not be balanced by a couple of chicken wings every other day.

Simple solution - don't feed meat without bone :)

Edited June 24, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[minyvlz]

It really depends on your formula isn't it? I feed prey model so I feed only 10% bone and 80% meat, so that is a lot of meat off the bone. Are there any studies to show how much bone/calcium a growing puppy actually needs, since the disparity is so large? Genuinely interested, thanks in advance!

I wouldn't worry about the calcium source everyday. Balance is over time not over a meal or a day.

On the other hand, constant imbalance is hardly ideal. The calcium/phosphorus ration in a growing pup NEEDS to be balanced. Too much meat off the bone will not be balanced by a couple of chicken wings every other day.

Simple solution - don't feed meat without bone :)

[RuralPug]

I've never heard "don't feed meat without bone" before. I suppose it depends how much meat is on the bone. It is certainly correct to ensure that the phosphorous/calcium ratio is desirable for the growth rate or need, but too much bone without meat etc. can lead to constipation and even compaction in the gut. Most "bone" feeds readily available to urban dwellers are more bone than meat as they are byproducts and the meat has been largely removed, so I would worry that that statement could be too easily misunderstood. In nature the bone in any one meal (say a rabbit) would be maximum about 15%.

I find it better to think of a "carcase" diet, where the predator in nature consumes most of the carcase, including organs, gut contents, tendons, soft bone, marrow and even some skin and hair. Canid species will usually also consume opportunistic feeds of fish, insects and some fruits/vegetables. Grasses are usually semi-digested in a prey animals stomach which is why we put veges through the food processor or blender first to allow the dog's gut to access them. For those of us without easy access to entire fresh carcasses we do need to ensure diet components are added so that the "missing bits" of carcase are replaced or substituted.

[minyvlz]

This is essentially what the prey model raw is, except we believe that wolves do not consume the stomach contents of prey so we do not add vegetables in any form. Wolves are carnivores and so are dogs.

I've never heard "don't feed meat without bone" before. I suppose it depends how much meat is on the bone. It is certainly correct to ensure that the phosphorous/calcium ratio is desirable for the growth rate or need, but too much bone without meat etc. can lead to constipation and even compaction in the gut. Most "bone" feeds readily available to urban dwellers are more bone than meat as they are byproducts and the meat has been largely removed, so I would worry that that statement could be too easily misunderstood. In nature the bone in any one meal (say a rabbit) would be maximum about 15%.

I find it better to think of a "carcase" diet, where the predator in nature consumes most of the carcase, including organs, gut contents, tendons, soft bone, marrow and even some skin and hair. Canid species will usually also consume opportunistic feeds of fish, insects and some fruits/vegetables. Grasses are usually semi-digested in a prey animals stomach which is why we put veges through the food processor or blender first to allow the dog's gut to access them. For those of us without easy access to entire fresh carcasses we do need to ensure diet components are added so that the "missing bits" of carcase are replaced or substituted.