Jenni87 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Hi everyone, On thursday we had our 2.5 year old Goldie spayed. Thursday night/Friday morning she was pretty out of it and then Friday afternoon she started whining and moaning etc. We thought she might be in pain but speaking to the vet he said she is prob uncomfortable and unsettled after the surgery and wait and see how she is Saturday. She kept pacing and whining and as we left our other Goldie with my parents thinking she could do with the rest as they are pretty full on together most of the time, we got her home thinking it was separation anxiety - even though they had been apart before but thats what it seemed like with the panting/whining/etc. It helped Friday night and we all got sleep but this morning she started it all again. So called the vet and got a check up and everything is ok, and he gave us some extra meds to help with any additional pain this morning. Now this afternoon we noticed how obsessed with our wardrobe she was and now she is taking in her teddies and 'nesting'. Its not 730 at night so can't call the vet and now thinking about even last night she had slept in our wardrobe, we thought she might just be cold and feel comfortable in there being post surgery and all. Randomly I did a google at after spaying behaviour and read something about some dogs acting out a phantom pregnancy kind of thing.... and it sounds exactly like what she is doing. Is this for real?? We blocked off the wardrobe and took away the teddies and she is now whining like crazy again and really stressing about not being to go in there. Any one experienced anything like this before?? Our other dog was spayed about 2 months ago and was in and out and totally fine the next day as has any other dog i've had before. I am really worried about her.... thanks for any advice etc! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bundyburger Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I've only had one bitch, but I've heard of this happening before, as their hormones are all over the place and take a while to settle down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenni87 Posted June 2, 2012 Author Share Posted June 2, 2012 I didn't really want to believe a google search lol What do I do? Discourage it or let it run its course? Think it's going to be another trip to the vet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bundyburger Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) I don't think you can really discourage it, and will probably have to let it run it's course, I'm not sure the vet could even do anything? If you do a search there might already be similar threads on this? If she's more relaxed hiding in the wardrobe, I'd just let her do that for now, it's not like it's dangerous behaviour, and I know i'd prefer a more relaxed dog than a stressy one. I think i read something about the dogs hormones telling the brain that they're pregnant or just had babies after being speyed so they go all maternal for a few days until the hormones settle again. Hopefully someone with more knowlege than me will be able to put your mind at ease :) Edited June 2, 2012 by Bundyburger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9angel Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I've had a couple over the years that have had phantom pregnancies. One was like your's and chose the wardrobe as her nesting spot. Another would work hard down behind the shed making a nest. They'd be restless and panting as they worked away. They'd also go off their food. One even developed milk in her teets with one of her phantoms and the same one would also carry a little teddy around convinced it was a puppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenni87 Posted June 2, 2012 Author Share Posted June 2, 2012 What did you do K9? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9angel Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) I didn't really want to believe a google search lol What do I do? Discourage it or let it run its course? Think it's going to be another trip to the vet! I used to ignore mine and let it run it's course. It'd usually pass after a few days and they'd be back to their normal selves. I'd be letting her go into the wardrobe where she's happy. The more you try to discourage her, the more distressed & anxious she will become. ETA spelling Edited June 2, 2012 by k9angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Yeah just let her do her thing in the cupboard im sure after a couple of days she should stop :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 How long ago was her last season? If it was 6-12 weeks ago she could have been having a phantom anyway and the desexing has just made her worse. Let her do whatever she is comfortable with but try to ignore her and don't give any sympathy. Unfortunately the best cure for a phantom is more exercise and that isn't an option at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenni87 Posted June 2, 2012 Author Share Posted June 2, 2012 i'll give her a couple of days and see how we go otherwise its off to the vets on Tuesday for another check up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenni87 Posted June 2, 2012 Author Share Posted June 2, 2012 Dancinbs - her last cycle started 25th March. Would there have been signs if she was already phantoming? We left her alone last night and has set up camp in the wardrobe. She is venturing out this morning but for short periods of time before running back 'to check on them'. I really hope it doesn't last long, I miss my girl & this is something I had not expected in a million years!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) Don't worry about it. Her hormones sound like they are all over the place and now is about the right time for a phantom (or puppies if she were mated) after her season (or getting close enough to it anyway depending on when she actually ovulated). Many bitches go through phantoms and I have had one that went through one every time she was in season. Some get them stronger than others. The Speying wont have stopped the hormones if they were already circulating, but now she is done she won't get one again. Note this is a very natural thing. In a wild pack situation bitches will cycle together but it is often only the higher ranking females that get to mate. The other bitches can sometimes take on duties as 'nanny dogs', even producing milk. Those phantom pregnancies serve a purpose! As for what to do, generally you just ride it out and they lose interest after a time. Or you can take away the toys etc and keep her busy with other things. Six of one, half a dozen of the other IMO as generally you have to let the hormones run their course. They can seem a bit folorn and pathetic while in one. But they DO come out of it. Edited June 2, 2012 by espinay2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenGirl85 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Poor thing, is this Rosie or Ella? I miss hearing updates on your girls! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenni87 Posted June 2, 2012 Author Share Posted June 2, 2012 Hi GG85 - it's Ella, my more sensitive girl lol Rosie seems as confused as we are! I'll pop over the Goldie thread and say hi :) Thanks everyone for your advice, we'll just ride this out then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Dancinbs - her last cycle started 25th March. Would there have been signs if she was already phantoming? We left her alone last night and has set up camp in the wardrobe. She is venturing out this morning but for short periods of time before running back 'to check on them'. I really hope it doesn't last long, I miss my girl & this is something I had not expected in a million years!! You might have missed the earlier subtle signs but the surgery and pain would be adding to her confusion. As espinay2 said it is very normal for bitches to have phantoms. All my BC girls have had them with every season to varying degrees. The last one used to put on weight, dig dens and get milk but often not until a couple of weeks after her phantom babies would have been due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerJim Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Hi Jenni, This is psuedopregnancy behaviour. It is common in cycling girls as everyone knows, but a very uncommon occurrence after speying. Most gals dont get it post-spey (like your other girl) but those who do can go through a few of the signs OR the whole run of signs.... They can nest- which she is doing in the wardrobe- and "adopt" toys and start mothering behaviour. They can even experience boob development and produce milk in some cases so don't be alarmed if you see this too! As the other members have said, this will go away on its own, usually in days to a few weeks. I have heard of a couple in my Boxer club that took several weeks so I do hope your gal is quicker!!! As espinay2 said...you can remove the mothered items from her, it can possibly shorten the duration, BUT you need to replace this with lots of other things for her to do (walks, training, etc) to give her other mental input and positive behavior that can be rewarded. If however she gets all STRESSED OUT WITHOUT the toys/items and you cant divert her behaviour then you may need to leave her with them (as K9angel's good advice) Vets have medications to take her out of this phase, but from what I know, Vets will only rightly use these on girls that are so engrossed with nesting that they are neglecting their own health!!!! Hope she returns "to normal" soon.... Boxer Jim PS... if you are interested...... this is why it happens..... IF a dog is in pup, one of the sex hormones ( progesterone) is very high as it is needed to maintain the pregnancy. This hormone level DROPS abruptly in the last week of pregnancy to get ready for imminent BIRTH! This drop triggers nesting behaviour to get ready for the pups. Now, during speying, your Vet removes the ovaries as well as the uterus. Even tho she inst pregnant, this removal of the ovaries causes a DROP in one of the sex hormones (progesterone) which mimics the drop at the end of pregnancy and preparing for BIRTH Well, some females are OVERLY sensitive to this drop, and think that they are pregnant and they have to get ready for pups! Hence why your gal is nesting. Hope that helps :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 personally - I think a phantom litter is a good thing at this stage- you know where she is, and she is occupied, and STILL :) perfect for wound healing . leave her be ..just go on around her as normal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenni87 Posted June 3, 2012 Author Share Posted June 3, 2012 Thanks everyone for your advice and for going into it further BoxerJim Good point Persephone - we do know where she is and keeping her settled is so much easier than when our other girl was done and she was bouncing off the walls the next morning. The extra sooky cuddles are nice too. I really hope it's only days & not weeks though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerJim Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Thanks everyone for your advice and for going into it further BoxerJim Good point Persephone - we do know where she is and keeping her settled is so much easier than when our other girl was done and she was bouncing off the walls the next morning. The extra sooky cuddles are nice too. I really hope it's only days & not weeks though! Yes indeed Jenni, you dont want her in the wardrobe forever! Cheers, Jim PPS: by the way, even though is it an uncommon occurrence post-speying, for your next dog, if you spey either BEFORE she comes in heat, or wait 3=4 MONTHS AFTER her last heat, then you almost completely eliminate the chance of it occurring. :) Every now and again Science can help make good decisions in the real world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenni87 Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 I did read up on it before it all we got them done but our vet assured me it would be fine to do her when we did. I didn't see anything about this - just the usual things like swollen parts and risk of haemorrhaging etc. Well in the future i'll know... and i think we'll be going for boys lol Day 3 down...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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