Airedale Same Sex Aggression?

[Kolya]

Hi there, I'm new to DOL and have to say this forum is brilliant!

I am soon going to be owned by a female Airedale pup who will be living with a 7 year old female Scottie. My question is have I made a mistake with the sex? I based my choice of a female pup after reading that male Airedales will try to dominate other animals in the home and didn't want that.

After putting down a deposit on a female pup, I've read that same-sex aggression can be a particular problem in Airedales. Obviously my research of the breed was not thorough enough. The Scottie has had female dogs (cattle dogs and collies) over to visit and completely ignores them and they her so I'm taking this as a good sign. If I train my female pup from the start to play nice with the Scottie, do you think the situation is manageable? I've read so many conflicting opinions about Airedales and same-sex aggression that I'm quite confused and more than a little concerned.

I would love any help you can give. Thanks.

Kolya

[Cat]

Male/Female combinations work best and from what I have read any breed with females can have problems. That said, lots of people make it work. I have a friend with three female Airedales and one male and she doesn't have any aggression issues.

Airedales seem to have a bad reputation for being dominating and aggressive, but I have not noticed this at all in my experience. I have a male and he doesn't dominate other animals in the house.

I think it comes down to the individuals. It may be worthwhile speaking to the breeder about your concerns. She may be able to suggest a suitable pup.

[Diva]

Make sure the breeder knows your situation and that you don't want the pushiest, most in-your-face pup.

One that shows a good response to the other pups' and adults' signals and is 'middle of the road' in terms of assertiveness might be a good start.

I have known a couple of Airedales living in family situations and they have been great pets.

[megan_]

Personally I'd go with a male pup, even if that meant waiting a long time. Girls are called bitches for a reason....sure it can all be fine, but I personally wouldn't risk it, especially with the size difference. A tiff could leave the scotty seriously injured or worse. It may even be fine for a year or two until the Airedale matures and then the girls fight for top spot. I'd also follow Diva's advice re: getting a middle-of-the-range dog in terms of assertiveness.

My advice isn't based on the fact that you're getting an Airedale, I'd give the same advice regardless of breed. That said, the terriorists can be more feisty than other breeds, so it is even more important.

[Airedaler]

Hi Koyla,

I have been involved with Airedale Terriers for about 40 years. I have bred them, shown them and competed in Obedience with them as well as had them as house pets.

It is only in the last 9 years that I have had a male dog, prior to that I have always had multiple female Airedales and have not EVER had any issues between them. I know some breeders will not sell one of the same sex of dog as you already have but personally from my vast experience this is unfounded. We have also had female Airedale Terriers at the same time as we had another breed without any issues.

Adding the male has made no difference at all either so I would be confident in saying you could run a bitch with your Scottie without her being agressive. Whether your Scottie will be an agressor is another matter. The puppy is after all coming into her environment.

Where are you getting your new puppy from and what is it's breeding?

You may like to check out the Airedale Terrier Club of Victoria's website www.airedaleclub.com

Personally I think that by over worrying about a possible situation you may well be inclined to accentuate that situation.

I hope you have a long and happy association with this, if not always the easiest, wonderful breed.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Airedaler

[doglifetraining]

I nodded my head reading your post, a while ago I made the decision to adopt an Irish Setter (he has since passed away) and everyone was telling me I was crazy, they are stupid, never come when you call and cannot be trained was what I was hearing. Yes, I took all of this information in and trained/socialised him intensively from the beginning. Guess what? He was the best damn dog I have ever had! I actually was being stopped at the park by people remarking at how calm and well trained he was.

Knowing this information should not turn you off, just make you more aware and prepared. I would take extra special care to socialise to the hilt with as many people and dogs as possible to guard against any agro. This means finding appropriate dogs to have your puppy around, and not just for the first few months, this kind of socialisation/training should continue for years. It also means, in your situation, being aware of canine body language, each dogs personal habits and preferences, and creating an environment where they feel 'heard' so they do not have to resort to fighting.

I miss my Irish boy (i dont think I will ever have another dog so special to me again) and I am so glad I listened to people's warnings and stepped up to the plate prepared. I was rewarded, and I hope you will be too.

Edited June 1, 2012 by doglifetraining.com

[Kolya]

Thanks everyone for all your thoughtful replies.

Airdaler, I've emailed the breeder regarding this and haven't had a response yet. This particular breeder has a long-standing history in breeding and showing Airedales with some good results. The pup is the progeny of a champion show dog so I'm trusting the temperament of the dogs is going to be sound. The family tree has been provided and it's quite impressive (to my untrained eyes)with a few champions here and there. I'm assuming champion show dogs must have good qualities in terms of temperament.

Based on the balance of these replies and wider reading, I've decided to stop worrying about gender so much. I work from home so will be able to keep a close eye on the dogs and as doglifetraining said, now I'm aware of this possible issue I can take steps to avoid it. Puppy pre-school here we come.

Thanks again, for your insights, great advice and your own doggydom tales and I'm sure I'll be back, freaking out about something else in the near future :) ("Fenton!")

[Clyde]

I would say don't do it (get a female) but defer to the poster above who's had them for over 40years. As a groomer I've found Airedales difficult and quite feisty with other dogs but realise it is perhaps weak ownership? I love grooming them to see the finished result but do do an inward groan when a new person books one in :laugh:

[Cat]

DO you mean feisty as aggressive or just eager to play?

[Airedaler]

I do think the Airedale, and probably some of the other terriers, are often misunderstood.

The Airedale Terrier breed standard calls for the breed to be on the tip toe of expectation. This means they should be alert and ready to go. After all whatever is moving may well be game!

In this day and age anything that shows anything like a bit of terrier spirit or go is deemed agressive or uncontrollable. Owners of this breed like any other breed should be aware of the overall temperament of the breed as a whole and accept that with that temperament comes a responsibility to deal with it appropriately. We see this so much in the show ring. In the 1970's and 80's one could regularly see anywhere between 50 and 100 Airedales at an All Breeds show. Sometimes the Judges would deliberately spar the dogs against each other in order to perk them up and see them "on the tip toe of expectation". This was always controlled by the handlers and no harm was done to anyone or thing, however, in today's show environment it is more likely that if a dog even looks as though it is going to spark up it will be reported as an agressive dog.

We hear so much about dogs having lost the purpose and the ability to perform their original purpose. Well hello, Terriers were originally bred to be on the go, to kill game and in many cases there would have been fighting amongst packs of dogs. While I certainaly am not advocating that an Airedale or any other breed should be agressive I am asking people to respect what the origins of the breed are and work with that.

Overall I believe the Airedale Terrier temperament is pretty good, of course there are exceptions to the rule .... show me a breed where there is not ... but the truely agressive and uncontrolable Airedale is an exception rather than the rule in my experience, often created by owners who simply do not know how to handle the breed and are not prepared to put in the early training and socializing.

The inherent characteristics of different groups of dogs became very evidient to me some years ago when after 20 years of owning Airedale Terriers we bought a gundog puppy. We gave an Airedale puppy a rolled up pair of socks and her mission was to instantly "kill" it. Gave the gundog the same and it's mission was to retrieve it with no marks on it at all.

The Airedale Terrier IMO is a wonderful breed BUT is is not the breed for everyone.

[megan_]

But I don't think anyone is saying that airedales are aggressive? Were talking about bitch bs bitch in a pack situation. Regardless of breed it wouldn't be my first choice. I also wouldn't take "parents are champions" to equal "has good temperament". Even dogs with excellent temperaments can get into fights - it isn't just the bad dogs they have problems. It is about getting the right temperament for your pack. A dominant bitch might be perfect in one household, but not suited to yours, or vice versa. Is the breeder picking the pup? Have they asked you about your experience& your Scotty? Have they given you a view on what will best suit your needs? Personally, if they didn't do this I'd be walking away.

Finally, in my non expert opinion, socializing your dog is going to have very little influence on PACK dynamics, do I don't understand why the dog training poster raised it? Yes socialization is critical etc, but it isn't going to stop a bitch fighting for top spot.

[Airedaler]

Were talking about bitch bs bitch in a pack situation. Regardless of breed it wouldn't be my first choice.

Don't know how to do the quote thing so hope my answers are clear

Any breed, any dog can be involved in a dominance issue at any time. In my earlier post I mentioned that in 40 years of owing the breed I have never had a fight or issues between bitches in the yard. Of course this is not to say it does not happen. It just says that in my experience having more than one bitch at a time is not an issue. I have had up to 5 in the yard at a time - all run together, eat together and play together. I don't think my yard is the only one in which this happens.

I also wouldn't take "parents are champions" to equal "has good temperament".

I could not agree more with this statement. Also in this day and age sadly, having a Champion title in front of a dogs name is not really an accurate sign of quality. There are many champions out there who have never beaten another dog - there own breed or another! That is not to take away from those who are very successful in the ring.

Even dogs with excellent temperaments can get into fights - it isn't just the bad dogs they have problems.

Of course thay can but it is less likely.

It is about getting the right temperament for your pack. A dominant bitch might be perfect in one household, but not suited to yours, or vice versa.

And unfortunately you do not know if you have a new pup with the temperament to suit your situation until the pup is much older. It is unlikely that you will get an Airedale pup that goes into a new home and tries to be dominant over a dog that is already established. [/i] [/i]

Finally, in my non expert opinion, socializing your dog is going to have very little influence on PACK dynamics, do I don't understand why the dog training poster raised it? Yes socialization is critical etc, but it isn't going to stop a bitch fighting for top spot.

I disagree to a point with this. Proper socialisation teaches the dog to react in different ways to situations. It may not solve the issue all the time but I do believe it re enforces good manners/behaviour and dogs that are well socialised are imo far less likely to become involved in dominance or other issues.

[Cosmolo]

I mean no disrespect to the OP but i think its important to remember that not everyone is experienced with managing packs and dealing with dog to dog interactions and dynamics. I have 5 dogs, 3 of whom are bitches. It can be done. It can be done with a variety of breeds. But do i recommend it to others when they can choose to have opposite sexes as the only dogs in the home. No. It lowers the risk of inter dog aggression. Socialisation does also lower the risk as does good leadership and management. Why not cover all bases? Why not lower risk if you can choose to?

Edited June 13, 2012 by Cosmolo

[mumof4girls]

Congratulations on your impending pup :-) we have rogue our boofy Airedale :-) He is very playful little man who just loves other dogs male or female.. He is nearly 8 mths now I also know of families with same sex Dales that have no issues. I would think if the pup is growing up with your other bitch then they would form a bond? I'm a first time dog owner so I may be way off.. Anyway have fun, Airedale are just wonderful, so full of personality :-)

Hi there, I'm new to DOL and have to say this forum is brilliant!

I am soon going to be owned by a female Airedale pup who will be living with a 7 year old female Scottie. My question is have I made a mistake with the sex? I based my choice of a female pup after reading that male Airedales will try to dominate other animals in the home and didn't want that.

After putting down a deposit on a female pup, I've read that same-sex aggression can be a particular problem in Airedales. Obviously my research of the breed was not thorough enough. The Scottie has had female dogs (cattle dogs and collies) over to visit and completely ignores them and they her so I'm taking this as a good sign. If I train my female pup from the start to play nice with the Scottie, do you think the situation is manageable? I've read so many conflicting opinions about Airedales and same-sex aggression that I'm quite confused and more than a little concerned.

I would love any help you can give. Thanks.

Kolya

[Kolya]

I got the boy! I got the boy!! Only because the breeder agreed to relinquish his choice pup!! Wooh!!! So happy!!! I visited over the weekend and he's gorgeous!! Thanks for advice all. :)

[persephone]

:)

[mumof4girls]

Woohoo you will have so much fun they have so much personality :-)

I got the boy! I got the boy!! Only because the breeder agreed to relinquish his choice pup!! Wooh!!! So happy!!! I visited over the weekend and he's gorgeous!! Thanks for advice all. :)

[Cat]

Great! Cant wait to see pics