Height Cards

[sheena]

My almost 15 month old, border collie guy is going to be very close to being a 600 dog. For ANKC, what is the min. age I can have him measured & get his height card for Agility. I thought it was not before 18 months, but I have seen others get their cards at just over 12 months. Also what is the cut off point where they move from being a 500 to a 600 dog. He will be entering his first comp when he is 18 months & if I can't get him measured till the trial & I put him down as a 500 dog, will any "Q"s he gets (hoping) be disallowed if he then measures in the 600 range. Do I need to take along his registration when I get his height card done????

[ness]

Hmmm I think the minimum is 16 months with the new rules i.e 2 months before your able to trial them which is at 18 months. I am not sure if that was just the SA version of the rules though as each State seems to be different.

[DeltaCharlie]

Pretty sure the rules state that they must be measured within 1 month of their first trial. I was only checking it recently as we got all of our pups measured a few weeks ago as there were a few judges at a trial who were free.

600 height is 545mm and above. How tall is Cricket? I thought he was already taller than that :)

I have never heard of people having their Qs taken off them if their dog remeasures higher. Delta remeasured as a Maxi in ADAA after already having many cards as a Midi dog and there was no problem there. She had, however, been officially measured as a Midi dog at 20 months so it wasn't as though I had just entered her where I thought. Would be a different story if the dog hadn't been measured. Perhaps CFS will come in here and clarify :)

[sheena]

Pretty sure the rules state that they must be measured within 1 month of their first trial. I was only checking it recently as we got all of our pups measured a few weeks ago as there were a few judges at a trial who were free.

600 height is 545mm and above. How tall is Cricket? I thought he was already taller than that :)

I have never heard of people having their Qs taken off them if their dog remeasures higher. Delta remeasured as a Maxi in ADAA after already having many cards as a Midi dog and there was no problem there. She had, however, been officially measured as a Midi dog at 20 months so it wasn't as though I had just entered her where I thought. Would be a different story if the dog hadn't been measured. Perhaps CFS will come in here and clarify :)

I was talking to someone who is a judge a while back & even he was confused. He thought the cut off point was 550 & anything above that was a 600 dog...it is so confusing. Yes, when we measured him at home, some months ago he was more than 545mm. I only go to about 12 trials a year, but I havn't yet seen a pure bred (registered) border collie jumping in the 600 category...so I still have my fingers crossed.

[Sayreovi]

The ANKC rules say 546 mm and over is a 600 dog and the minimum age is 16 months for measuring for a height card as Ness said no more than two months before their first trial which they aren't eligible to do until they are 18 months.

While they probably aren't registered there are a few BC's down in Victoria jumping 600, I know of 3 at one club :)

It wouldn't surprise me if you entered your dog in as 500 and it won but is definately a 600 dog that someone would complain about it and you could possibly be stripped of the pass. I've always been told if in doubt enter the higher height!

[J...]

There is a 600 registered BC here in Vic trialling and several who are very close to 600 height.

I know a judge who picked up a Masters dog from another state a few years ago who was jumping a height below what they should've been and had never been measured. Apparently it should've had it's Qs taken off it but who knows what happened when they went home.

Measuring dogs on the borderline must be bloody hard, there is one dog who I know was remeasured after the owner complained There was also another recently who was remeasured by a judge at a trial and had to be bumped up into 500, no penalty was applied as the dog had a height card.

[ness]

There was a BC here jumping 400 that was clearly a 500 dog and it was remeasured at some point and moved up to the appropriate class but didn't lose its quallies or titles. I know what its like having borderline dogs my youngster is a borderline 400/500 dog and was measured at 452mm so just puts her into 400. There are some dogs that a deceptive in there height.

I know when they measured her they were extra careful with there measuring. To the extent where the judge had me move her away and restand before taking a couple of measurements. Hers all came back under though and within about a mm so they were pretty confident in what height was recorded.

Just on the subject of height cards - interesting I took my old girl over to WA before height cards were mandatory in obedience she measured at 465mm. As that was a WA height card and not valid here when they introduced agility height cards she was remeasured at 477mm. SA then introduced obedience height cards but because she had been measured for agility they never remeasured her for obedience but I continued to use the "obedience" measurement because that was the height she had been measured at for obedience. She was double checked at an obedience trial and measured at 470mm and they were happy to accept her 465mm height card.

[Pretty Miss Emma]

Slightly on this topic... how do you get a height card? I know you have to have the dog measured - by 2 judges? When and where and how do you get this done/organised? Just trying to figure out how you do it without seemingly harrassing anyone too much!!!

[Sayreovi]

It's a different scenario though if your dog was measured previously and holds a height card, and then got remeasured and move. That's not the handlers fault and I doubt people will care. Entering a dog that hasn't been measured in a lower height when it clearly doesn't belong there will raise a few eyebrows.

I have a borderline dog as well, he was measured in at 500 and due to that I gave up any chance of trialling him as asking him to do 500 with his build was unfair. I had considered getting him remeasured but bit late now I probably could have gotten away with putting him in the 400 class.

[Sayreovi]

Slightly on this topic... how do you get a height card? I know you have to have the dog measured - by 2 judges? When and where and how do you get this done/organised? Just trying to figure out how you do it without seemingly harrassing anyone too much!!!

Usually done at trials, you can contact the trial secretary and ask if there will be any measuring done at the trial.

Not every judge is able to measure so it depends on which judges are there.

There is a form that you must fill out prior to measuring and it's $5, form is on agilitytrials.info

[ness]

But if he had been measured at 500 and you entered him in 400 then regardless of if it was questioned or not I could see issues. There was a sheltie here who was running in 500 as it had been measured as a 500 dog and who was remeasured as a 400 dog. Its a large sheltie and its bigger then my BC so I do wonder if its truely a 400 dog but I also don't think its fair that a sheltie should be jumping 500.

[Sayreovi]

Before I got him measured not after Ness :)

I knew he was borderline before hand but always thought he was just under rather than over.

[Leema]

My bitch was measured when she was about 2.5 years old. We have never entered a trial, and she is now 4.5 years old. Does this mean she needs to be remeasured before competing, as her measurement was taken >2 months from her first trial?

[sheena]

When I had Bindi measured by ANKC judges, she was put down as 510, but when I had her measured at ADAA, they put her down as 498. I want Cricket to go into the right class, but would rather him not have to jump 600 if he is just below border line. Not that he wont be capable of jumping 600, but there are some BIG dogs in 600. I didn't know you had to be measured for obedience. Maybe that is what these people were having done on their 12 month olds & plus. On the subject of not having seen any registered BC's jumping 600 in the trials I go to.... a dog that is down as a BC & looks like a BC, but is on Associate Register, could be anything. I am sure they are out there, but I am havn't seen one yet at our trials. I have seen a lot of 400 BC's that look like they should be in 500. I think Cathy's Snazzy could be a 600 dog.

[ness]

Nope Leema - my understanding at least here is so long as the dog is 16 months of age then its valid. Kenz didn't trial until she was at least 2 and a bit.

ETA. Sorry tollersowned I didn't mean to make it sound like you would be dishonest. Thanks for clarifying what you meant.

Edited May 27, 2012 by ness

[kelpiechick]

Slightly on this topic... how do you get a height card? I know you have to have the dog measured - by 2 judges? When and where and how do you get this done/organised? Just trying to figure out how you do it without seemingly harrassing anyone too much!!!

Monday nights at training when both Paul and Adrian are there - they are both qualified to measure and Adrian usually has the gear with him in his car, if not and you let him know he will bring it along for next time. He usually has forms on him too, but you can download one from the Agility Trials (Vic.) site as well. Will cost you $5 for the measure/height card.

[kelpiechick]

When I had Bindi measured by ANKC judges, she was put down as 510, but when I had her measured at ADAA, they put her down as 498. I want Cricket to go into the right class, but would rather him not have to jump 600 if he is just below border line. Not that he wont be capable of jumping 600, but there are some BIG dogs in 600. I didn't know you had to be measured for obedience. Maybe that is what these people were having done on their 12 month olds & plus. On the subject of not having seen any registered BC's jumping 600 in the trials I go to.... a dog that is down as a BC & looks like a BC, but is on Associate Register, could be anything. I am sure they are out there, but I am havn't seen one yet at our trials. I have seen a lot of 400 BC's that look like they should be in 500. I think Cathy's Snazzy could be a 600 dog.

As others have said there are a couple of main register BC's jumping 600 in Vic. Have also seen one in NSW last time I competed at Wagga that I am pretty sure is a main register dog and it(he?) has been to a couple of seminars in Vic. as well. Compared to other countries in the world, our jump heights are so low that I don't think it's a concern at all for a dog with a build like a BC to be jumping 600. (I totally understand with some other breeds though why people are hoping for the lower measurement.) I am actually disappointed that the rule changed where you can't jump up a height by choice any more, my 500 BC (well and truly a 500 dog) jumps so much better at 600 whereas at 500 she flattens out and pulls bars - never drops one at 600 and her jump style looks so much nicer.) One of my kelpies jumps 600 - measures 550 at shoulder so just missed out. He has no problems with it either but I do cringe when I see some of the heavier breeds that have just missed out.

I'm not a fan of NADAC agility, but one thing I think they got right is the breed exemption for particular jump heights, where for dogs with a particular body type their actual measurement is irrelevant and they are able to jump at a lower height.

[Kavik]

When I had Bindi measured by ANKC judges, she was put down as 510, but when I had her measured at ADAA, they put her down as 498. I want Cricket to go into the right class, but would rather him not have to jump 600 if he is just below border line. Not that he wont be capable of jumping 600, but there are some BIG dogs in 600. I didn't know you had to be measured for obedience. Maybe that is what these people were having done on their 12 month olds & plus. On the subject of not having seen any registered BC's jumping 600 in the trials I go to.... a dog that is down as a BC & looks like a BC, but is on Associate Register, could be anything. I am sure they are out there, but I am havn't seen one yet at our trials. I have seen a lot of 400 BC's that look like they should be in 500. I think Cathy's Snazzy could be a 600 dog.

Being a 600 dog isn't all that bad :laugh: There are less dogs in 600 than 500 and a lot of the trials are now separate heights and think of your BCs manouvreability compared to some of the larger breeds (this is how I think of it with a 600 jumping Kelpie - 570mm so well and truly a 600 dog!). And I know quite a few people who would have preferred to be able to jump their 500 BC up in 600 due to the flattening and bar issues mentioned by kelpiechick.

[sheena]

When I had Bindi measured by ANKC judges, she was put down as 510, but when I had her measured at ADAA, they put her down as 498. I want Cricket to go into the right class, but would rather him not have to jump 600 if he is just below border line. Not that he wont be capable of jumping 600, but there are some BIG dogs in 600. I didn't know you had to be measured for obedience. Maybe that is what these people were having done on their 12 month olds & plus. On the subject of not having seen any registered BC's jumping 600 in the trials I go to.... a dog that is down as a BC & looks like a BC, but is on Associate Register, could be anything. I am sure they are out there, but I am havn't seen one yet at our trials. I have seen a lot of 400 BC's that look like they should be in 500. I think Cathy's Snazzy could be a 600 dog.

As others have said there are a couple of main register BC's jumping 600 in Vic. Have also seen one in NSW last time I competed at Wagga that I am pretty sure is a main register dog and it(he?) has been to a couple of seminars in Vic. as well. Compared to other countries in the world, our jump heights are so low that I don't think it's a concern at all for a dog with a build like a BC to be jumping 600. (I totally understand with some other breeds though why people are hoping for the lower measurement.) I am actually disappointed that the rule changed where you can't jump up a height by choice any more, my 500 BC (well and truly a 500 dog) jumps so much better at 600 whereas at 500 she flattens out and pulls bars - never drops one at 600 and her jump style looks so much nicer.) One of my kelpies jumps 600 - measures 550 at shoulder so just missed out. He has no problems with it either but I do cringe when I see some of the heavier breeds that have just missed out.

I'm not a fan of NADAC agility, but one thing I think they got right is the breed exemption for particular jump heights, where for dogs with a particular body type their actual measurement is irrelevant and they are able to jump at a lower height.

That's interesting...I didn't know they changed the rules about being able to choose to jump higher. In Strategic Pairs one dog is allowed to jump below it's height. I don't think it will worry Cricket one bit if he has to jump 600, although at this stage I would be reluctant to practice him on that height. We do most of our daily training on about 300 & he only jumps 500 when he goes to class once a week. As Kavik pointed out, there are less dogs in 600, so more chance of a prize. No confusion with ADAA...he is definately a Maxi (Regular).Interesting KC that your big BC jumps better at 600. :)

[DeltaCharlie]

Plenty of 600 height border collies in NSW/ACT that are purebred (either main registered or sporting registered). One of the pup's from our litter (17.5 months old now) is a 600 height border collie. You don't see it as much in the show lines but certainly some big dogs in the working lines (sheep aren't as picky about things like that LOL). There are quite a few main registered border collies in the 600 height for the upcoming nationals.