disintegratus Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Anthropomorphising here, but I lost my voice once years ago. It was the most irritating thing in the world. I could still talk, but barely, then eventually I was trying to talk, but nothing was coming out. I wonder if dogs feel the same? I think they'd adjust pretty quickly, as a person would, if it was permanent but that period of adjustment must be the most frustrating thing ever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Anthropomorphising here, but I lost my voice once years ago. It was the most irritating thing in the world. I could still talk, but barely, then eventually I was trying to talk, but nothing was coming out. I wonder if dogs feel the same? I think they'd adjust pretty quickly, as a person would, if it was permanent but that period of adjustment must be the most frustrating thing ever! You hit the nail on the head, you are anthropomorphising, dogs don't think like people. They don't have any concept of how they sound to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 How do we know that dogs don't know that they sound different? Are there studies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Yes, there are studies that show that dogs don't have theory of mind, which is a prerequisite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Oh interesting, thanks Jo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I know this is dragging up an old post but it just makes me so irate when I find people who want their dogs debarked "just because" they do not want them to bark and be a nuiscence in their household! And to think there are vets who will do this procedure on puppies without any valid reason - shame, shame, shame, I would like to take an implement to them as well. I currently have 2 dogs, have had multiple working dogs on a property in past, and varying breeds, NOT ONE single dog has EVER been a problematic barker and this has been achieved with consistent training to STOP the learned behaviour before it starts, that is unnecessary barking, my method has simply been to correct the dog from a very early age if it barks just a stern voice command 'argh' as soon as dog stops, looks at me it is rewarded. As they got older 1 - 2 barks permissable, after that a call to heel and if correct response, reward. So now I have 2 very quite unobtusive dogs who alert me to door bell/phone ring/and all other household equipment beeps with a seek me and nose or paw touch with so much enthusiasm and the only reward they get is a big pat and my voice letting them know 'job well done' :) Wow. Old thread dragged up just so you can have a rant. Nice job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I've read that debarking has been thought of being an act that's quite harsh for dogs, which is why it's a last resort. From what I read, it said that it is the nature of dogs to bark which is why debarking would be removing something that is natural to them. Maybe your dog has problems? Have you gone to the vet for a check up? They can bark, of course ..it's just quieter /different. Like a lot of people sing.... but so out of tune , and they continue to sing, as they don't realise :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeebie Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) In reference to post by Raz -> Yep well I could have just started yet another thread on same topic all over again, so it was easier to do what a lot of others don't - SEARCH for info. It is a topic that I believe should be debated at every opportunity, put me on the NOT FOR side. Edited December 11, 2012 by zeebie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Do you have any proof it's bad or just your emotional response? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 In reference to post by Raz -> Yep well I could have just started yet another thread on same topic all over again, so it was easier to do what a lot of others don't - SEARCH for info. It is a topic that I believe should be debated at every opportunity, put me on the NOT FOR side. Cool story, bro. You could have just done a search to find out WHY people have it done and how the surgery is not as intrusive as other surgeries to educate yourself first before dragging up a thread just to have a rant. As I said - good job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 put me on the NOT FOR side. "Not FOR" in every single case? "NOT FOR" where the problem seems to be a total lack of training ? "NOT FOR" in the case of puppies ? "Not FOR" if the other choice of the owner is to euthanase the dog/s ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 In reference to post by Raz -> Yep well I could have just started yet another thread on same topic all over again, so it was easier to do what a lot of others don't - SEARCH for info. It is a topic that I believe should be debated at every opportunity, put me on the NOT FOR side. But debating means chatting about the facts and not making it personal. How is it that someone who doesn't know me or my dog or my circumstances can determine better than me with my vet what is best for my dog. Any idea how many Maremma end up in pounds because they are bred to work by barking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) [ They can bark, of course ..it's just quieter /different. Yes, the first debarked dogs I met (& didn't know )...didn't sound in the least strange, strangled or strained. Their bark was plain pleasant... a lower tone without the high frequency pitches that carry over distance & annoy. Yes.... I'd expected a debarked dog must sound strange, strangled or strained. I was proven wrong. Humans get their voice tone changed, too. But humans can do it via speech therapy & voice training. It's not uncommon for women who work in jobs like newsreading to have training to lower their pitch. Margaret Thatcher, ex-PM in the UK, had a naturally high pitched voice that was hard on the ear. One of her political colleagues commented that her voice could bring down sparrows flying over-head. She had voice training to lower her pitch (so no more sparrows died :) ) Humans have theory of mind, so they're aware of such changes. Means they can do it via voice training. Dogs don't & aren't....so they have some minimally invasive surgery. Edited December 11, 2012 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Yes.... I'd expected a debarked dog to sound strange, strangled or strained. It would depend in more than a little degree on the competency of the vet performing the surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) Yes.... I'd expected a debarked dog to sound strange, strangled or strained. It would depend in more than a little degree on the competency of the vet performing the surgery. I'd expect that most people would want to take their dogs for debarking to a vet with a track record of expertise & success in the procedure. It'd be very tempting of fate, to do otherwise. Those dogs I encountered belonged to 'show' people & they told me the operating vet was one well known for his skill & experience. Yep....I asked for the name, quick smart. :) Edited December 11, 2012 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirra Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Can anyone recommend a vet with a good track record with this procedure? Preferably Western Sydney, but prepared to travel for a good outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 The best I know of is in Wagga Wagga - many owners travel for hundreds of kilometres to see her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temperamentfirst Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Can anyone recommend a vet with a good track record with this procedure? Preferably Western Sydney, but prepared to travel for a good outcome. A few people I know went to Vineyard and were very happy with the result. In each case they were forced to do it due to impossible neighbours who were best mates with the ranger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 In reference to post by Raz -> Yep well I could have just started yet another thread on same topic all over again, so it was easier to do what a lot of others don't - SEARCH for info. It is a topic that I believe should be debated at every opportunity, put me on the NOT FOR side. But debating means chatting about the facts and not making it personal. How is it that someone who doesn't know me or my dog or my circumstances can determine better than me with my vet what is best for my dog. Any idea how many Maremma end up in pounds because they are bred to work by barking? :laugh: of course that's that how it goes, we just chat about facts and it never turns personal. Zeebie if you started another thread someone would've pulled up the old one with a link and pointed out it's been done before or you could comment on an old thread and bump it...either way you can't win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 :laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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