Debarking

[perrin]

Perrin muses over the possibility of having her childrens voices lowered so she can watch tv in peace.

Personally i have nothing against debarking. I sometime wish my neighbours would get their mareema done so i could sleep at night.

[Simply Grand]

I wonder how many cases there have actually been of owners debarking dogs in a cruel or harmful way (ie not done properly by a vet) who otherwise care about and treat their dogs well. I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of people who have or are considering debarking are actually caring owners who don't want to risk losing their dogs or having them harmed, and who are also considerate of their neighbours. As Steve suggested, I doubt people who don't really care about their dogs would bother debarking properly through a vet, they'd just ignore the problem or dump the dog.

Note: JMO, not evidence based.

[Dame Aussie]

I wonder how many cases there have actually been of owners debarking dogs in a cruel or harmful way (ie not done properly by a vet) who otherwise care about and treat their dogs well. I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of people who have or are considering debarking are actually caring owners who don't want to risk losing their dogs or having them harmed, and who are also considerate of their neighbours. As Steve suggested, I doubt people who don't really care about their dogs would bother debarking properly through a vet, they'd just ignore the problem or dump the dog.

Note: JMO, not evidence based.

Spot on

[Steve]

I wonder how many cases there have actually been of owners debarking dogs in a cruel or harmful way (ie not done properly by a vet) who otherwise care about and treat their dogs well. I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of people who have or are considering debarking are actually caring owners who don't want to risk losing their dogs or having them harmed, and who are also considerate of their neighbours. As Steve suggested, I doubt people who don't really care about their dogs would bother debarking properly through a vet, they'd just ignore the problem or dump the dog.

Note: JMO, not evidence based.

Yep.

Its an owner/ vet decision and a government shouldn't be able to interfere with that. If someone does debark their own dog that's already covered in the POCTA acts and they get them anyway.

To think that in Victoria [ because YOU cant be punished for a vet debarking your dog in another state] you can be charged with cruelty for taking a dog which has been debarked by a vet to a dog show is the most blatant display of the dog world gone mad - of over regulation and ridiculous government interference in our ability to enjoy the company of our pets.

[Jade~Harley~Bella]

As I said, some make something similar to a coughing sound and some don't really make a sound at all when they "bark" (mouth moves but no sound comes out). I think its sad because I don't really agree with doing things like that to any animal regardless of the situation. My dogs don't bark, but I have neighbours that do constantly.. mostly through lack of action from the owner.

Are your dogs desexed? That's quite a big operation to put our dogs through for our own convenience.

Not trying to be controversial, just putting forward some alternate thoughts :)

Lol yes my dogs are desexed. Not so much for my own convenience (apart from the mess with the little miss) more so for their safety and to make sure less puppies are in this world that don't need to be.

Not trying to be controversial and all... but the way I see it most of the time a barking dog is the result of inaction by an owner. I understand the OP is elderly etc but I've recently seen a similar issue with a youngish girl who had a kelpie in suburbia and was not willing to work the dog like it needed to be and ended up re-homing her to a farm where she is doing much better. It was the best thing for the dog. At the end of the day the dogs needs have to be taken into consideration before what we want.

[Angeluca]

As I said, some make something similar to a coughing sound and some don't really make a sound at all when they "bark" (mouth moves but no sound comes out). I think its sad because I don't really agree with doing things like that to any animal regardless of the situation. My dogs don't bark, but I have neighbours that do constantly.. mostly through lack of action from the owner.

Are your dogs desexed? That's quite a big operation to put our dogs through for our own convenience.

Not trying to be controversial, just putting forward some alternate thoughts :)

Lol yes my dogs are desexed. Not so much for my own convenience (apart from the mess with the little miss) more so for their safety and to make sure less puppies are in this world that don't need to be.

Not trying to be controversial and all... but the way I see it most of the time a barking dog is the result of inaction by an owner. I understand the OP is elderly etc but I've recently seen a similar issue with a youngish girl who had a kelpie in suburbia and was not willing to work the dog like it needed to be and ended up re-homing her to a farm where she is doing much better. It was the best thing for the dog. At the end of the day the dogs needs have to be taken into consideration before what we want.

Note : I'm Not against desexing and i know there is more then just health risks and unwanted puppies as reasons to desex such as behavioral and so on. And not a personal attack.

but your statement is a little contradicting.

You state that your dogs a desexed because 1 safety i assume you mean health wise. Its a preventative measure only that your dog may have health problems if it isn't desexed. Many dogs have lived healthy lives without desexing probably as many who got ill from not being desexed. I personally find the health argument in desexing invalid. You never know if you have helped the dog avoid health problems or just put it through an unnecessary operation (regarding only health).

2ndly which is the part I find contradicting you desexed your dogs to prevent unwanted litters. Couldn't you just do everything to make sure your dogs (male) are secure and can't get to someone else's female on heat or in the case of your female secure her to prevent unwanted males including your own from getting to her instead of putting your dogs through the procedure.

I own both sexes undesexed and I managed to not have unwanted litters as I know many others do.

Yes desexing is responsible not contesting that but it is just a easier way of controlling your own dogs as you put debarking is.

Personally I find both desexing and de-barking can be put in both categories elective and Necessary pending on individual circumstance and reason.

Edited May 27, 2012 by Angeluca

[WoofnHoof]

There is very much a perception that debarking is cruel, a friend of my mums asked for my advice with her non stop barker, she had moved and the dog's barking increased because of the neighbours dogs. Apparently rehoming a 10+ year old dog is more palatable than trying a barking collar and the reaction to my suggestion of looking at debarking was extreme (they have already had one neighbour threaten to complain to council). I dare say there is more than a little anthropomorphising going on as the owner proudly admits that the dogs are her babies so I should probably have anticipated the reaction, it still came as a surprise to me though.

Some people seem to have trouble understanding that a dogs perception of itself is not the same as the human perceptions, the dog doesn't understand that his bark no longer carries across three blocks, he barks, a noise comes out, he's happy :)

[Dame Aussie]

As I said, some make something similar to a coughing sound and some don't really make a sound at all when they "bark" (mouth moves but no sound comes out). I think its sad because I don't really agree with doing things like that to any animal regardless of the situation. My dogs don't bark, but I have neighbours that do constantly.. mostly through lack of action from the owner.

Are your dogs desexed? That's quite a big operation to put our dogs through for our own convenience.

Not trying to be controversial, just putting forward some alternate thoughts :)

Lol yes my dogs are desexed. Not so much for my own convenience (apart from the mess with the little miss) more so for their safety and to make sure less puppies are in this world that don't need to be.

Not trying to be controversial and all... but the way I see it most of the time a barking dog is the result of inaction by an owner. I understand the OP is elderly etc but I've recently seen a similar issue with a youngish girl who had a kelpie in suburbia and was not willing to work the dog like it needed to be and ended up re-homing her to a farm where she is doing much better. It was the best thing for the dog. At the end of the day the dogs needs have to be taken into consideration before what we want.

You say you desexed your dogs so they won't get pregnant/impregnate another dog....I could say that the reason you did that was because you couldn't be bothered keeping your dogs secure/safe and took the easy way out by desexing....the same way you're saying owners can't be bothered to stop barking and take the easy way out by debarking.

Quite contradictory.

[persephone]

the dog doesn't understand that his bark no longer carries across three blocks, he barks, a noise comes out, he's happy

[Clyde]

have you tried citronella collars

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/182774-citronella-collars/

[pebbles]

I really can't understand some people. So you would suggest rehoming a barker? What happens when the new owner gets fed up with the barking? Some breeds are 'barkers', I've got one here, yes he stops when told but the next noise and away he goes again. I do draw the line at night barking and my guys are inside overnight. Fortunately I live where barking isn't a problem but if circumstances changed then he would be debarked. Have always had entire dogs and bitches, don't believe in putting any animal through operations which aren't necessary but debarking would be done rather than lose a lifelong companion.

[WoofnHoof]

I really can't understand some people. So you would suggest rehoming a barker? What happens when the new owner gets fed up with the barking? Some breeds are 'barkers', I've got one here, yes he stops when told but the next noise and away he goes again. I do draw the line at night barking and my guys are inside overnight. Fortunately I live where barking isn't a problem but if circumstances changed then he would be debarked. Have always had entire dogs and bitches, don't believe in putting any animal through operations which aren't necessary but debarking would be done rather than lose a lifelong companion.

I don't know if you're referring to my post the owner I was referring to was considering rehoming, I didn't suggest it and tried to steer her away from that idea as I know there certainly aren't a wealth of good homes available for older dogs of that breed/mix, particularly if they have issues. I totally agree with you re rehoming a barker.

[pebbles]

No, sorry, WoofnHoof, I wasn't refering to any post in particular. I haven't checked but I don't think the poor original OP has been back. All he/she wanted to know was if debarking would harm the dog and there was this long thread about training, rehoming etc. Obviously this is an older person with an old dog. Moving into a retirement village, leaving your home and probably friends is hard enough without making the person feel they aren't doing the right thing by their companion. Circumstances must come into it. Get the dog debarked and live out the years together. Ok rant over lol.

[espinay2]

the dog doesn't understand that his bark no longer carries across three blocks, he barks, a noise comes out, he's happy

Agree. In the case of a breed bred to bark to do their job, for instance. Stopping them barking altogether can potentially cause the dog major and continued stress.

By Debarking and allowing them to continue to bark (though it wont be as loud) means the dog can be happy it is doing its job.

Stopping the dog from barking my not necessarily always be the best solution when it comes to the dogs happiness and wellbeing.

Edited May 27, 2012 by espinay2

[twodoggies2001]

As I said, some make something similar to a coughing sound and some don't really make a sound at all when they "bark" (mouth moves but no sound comes out). I think its sad because I don't really agree with doing things like that to any animal regardless of the situation. My dogs don't bark, but I have neighbours that do constantly.. mostly through lack of action from the owner.

Are your dogs desexed? That's quite a big operation to put our dogs through for our own convenience.

Not trying to be controversial, just putting forward some alternate thoughts :)

Lol yes my dogs are desexed. Not so much for my own convenience (apart from the mess with the little miss) more so for their safety and to make sure less puppies are in this world that don't need to be.

Not trying to be controversial and all... but the way I see it most of the time a barking dog is the result of inaction by an owner. I understand the OP is elderly etc but I've recently seen a similar issue with a youngish girl who had a kelpie in suburbia and was not willing to work the dog like it needed to be and ended up re-homing her to a farm where she is doing much better. It was the best thing for the dog. At the end of the day the dogs needs have to be taken into consideration before what we want.

Note : I'm Not against desexing and i know there is more then just health risks and unwanted puppies as reasons to desex such as behavioral and so on. And not a personal attack.

but your statement is a little contradicting.

You state that your dogs a desexed because 1 safety i assume you mean health wise. Its a preventative measure only that your dog may have health problems if it isn't desexed. Many dogs have lived healthy lives without desexing probably as many who got ill from not being desexed. I personally find the health argument in desexing invalid. You never know if you have helped the dog avoid health problems or just put it through an unnecessary operation (regarding only health).

2ndly which is the part I find contradicting you desexed your dogs to prevent unwanted litters. Couldn't you just do everything to make sure your dogs (male) are secure and can't get to someone else's female on heat or in the case of your female secure her to prevent unwanted males including your own from getting to her instead of putting your dogs through the procedure.

I own both sexes undesexed and I managed to not have unwanted litters as I know many others do.

Yes desexing is responsible not contesting that but it is just a easier way of controlling your own dogs as you put debarking is.

Personally I find both desexing and de-barking can be put in both categories elective and Necessary pending on individual circumstance and reason.

If as you say 2ndly, owners didn't desex their dogs, either bitch or dog, that means the owner would always have to keep their dogs secure at all times and never allowed thew pleasure of romping at the park for fear of unwanted litters. In my case, and it's my right to do so, is to have my dogs desexed as I have always done in the past and will continue to do so with future charges.

[wuffles]

It's a big misconception that all dogs that bark are mistreated. Some dogs just like the sound of their own voices.

[pebbles]

OMG this thread is getting more ridiculous by the minute - never let an entire dog romp in the park? It's not something they catch, you know.

[persephone]

never let an entire dog romp in the park? It's not something they catch, you know.

[twodoggies2001]

OMG this thread is getting more ridiculous by the minute - never let an entire dog romp in the park? It's not something they catch, you know.

Read what was written! It was stated that about keeping entire dogs secure so they couldn't get to entire bitches. If we all chose not to desex then nobody could let their animals romp in the park. It's not getting more ridiculous by the minute

[Esky the husky]

Yes we could, but owners of entire bitches would have to keep the bitch home during her season.

That is all.