HazyWal Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 LOL imagine recommending a bark collar for a dog that barks :laugh: Yeah sorry I don't get the joke.PM didn't say a bark collar she said an electric shock collar that she was clearly not comfortable with.I don't think there is any need to laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorto Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Found a card at the dog park at Doonside the other day. http://dogbehaviourspecialist.com.au/ Haven't been able to find much information other then his website. Anyone have information ??? At this stage will be booking in with Steve at K9 in the next couple of weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 LOL imagine recommending a bark collar for a dog that barks :laugh: Yeah sorry I don't get the joke.PM didn't say a bark collar she said an electric shock collar that she was clearly not comfortable with.I don't think there is any need to laugh. It was just meant lightheartedly. Most bark collars are electric, but to be quite honest, K9 Pro wouldn't simply tell a client that came to a consult that they needed a bark collar and that was all. Even if a bark collar was recommended I don't see how it's absurd to think one would be recommended for a problem barker if it was appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 I'm glad to hear that, and perhaps 'pushed' was too strong a word from PM's description reading it back, so I apologise. K9: No problem, no hard feelings here. Perhaps it's a cultural thing. In WA it seems pretty common for clients to pick and choose their trainers based on the use of equipment like shock collars and prongs. K9: I don't think it is too much different here or anywhere, but in the end I think tool and method preference gets over taken by results when peoples backs are against the wall with a difficult dog. Very often I give people a number of other things to try before recommend a bark collar, but some people are incapable of those things, some don't have the time and some aren't given the time by neighbors / council etc. so measures that bring some relief fast are needed rather than saying "I cant help." It is funny that you mention prongs and e collars (shock collar is a term that is inaccurate), as I don't use any of these tools in my "training", sure they may be part of some of the behavior work, but that is more dependent on the client, their needs, abilities, time frames and level of motivation they have left, rather than the dog. But at least I am open and honest, there are no secret tools hidden here, all are shown and explained with professionalism and I chose to recommend them where I feel they may be the best solution at that time on that dog with that person. I don't know who Poppy's mum is, I am hopeless with DOL names lol, as you see I use my company name, but I don't think I have said to a single client ever, "you have no choice this is the only way", regarding anything, never mind a bark collar. If I knew who you were PM I could look up the file, but I would never discuss your case publicly, it is against our business practice to disclose client details. W: These aren't value-neutral tools in a lot of people's minds. PM made a choice about what methods were right for her and her dog and it made me uncomfortable to see her get lol'ed for it. K9: No tool is neutral really, if it were it would never be used, they all have to be chosen with some motivation. I didn't laugh, that was Huski, but she does work for us and is very passionate about her work, she see's the dogs I train for competition, working careers and rehab cases and knows how much I focus on the dogs and clients needs, probably the reason for the sarcasm. It seems though that you have a clouded view of what I do, I invite you to take a look at an eBook I wrote a little while ago, it is available on our website free. This will give you more insight to my thoughts on "training". It is only short and the reviews were getting back say it is a good but short read, let me know your thoughts. It is here. Hope you enjoy it :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 LOL imagine recommending a bark collar for a dog that barks :laugh: Yeah sorry I don't get the joke.PM didn't say a bark collar she said an electric shock collar that she was clearly not comfortable with.I don't think there is any need to laugh. It was just meant lightheartedly. Most bark collars are electric, but to be quite honest, K9 Pro wouldn't simply tell a client that came to a consult that they needed a bark collar and that was all. Even if a bark collar was recommended I don't see how it's absurd to think one would be recommended for a problem barker if it was appropriate. No worries.Don't tell me it was "lighthearted"...tell Poppys Mum, she was the one laughed at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy's mum Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Yes, Stan's Mum (and Weasels) I was a little shocked that I should be ridiculed for a comment about the use of aversives by a trainer - when all I was pointing out was that some trainers (Delta) work on a positive model. I'm happy for this to be the end of it. I think it would be unproductive to comment further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 K9: I don't think it is too much different here or anywhere, but in the end I think tool and method preference gets over taken by results when peoples backs are against the wall with a difficult dog. .... By reference to WA I meant that we have a reputation for being heavily biased towards purely reward-based training, and that is what I encounter most places I go. Most of the alternatives I have found are yank & crank clubs that I wouldn't let train my goldfish, there isn't much in between. I know plenty of people on the extreme end of the 'purely positive' scale that would not go to any trainer who uses e-collars purely on principle, so by comparison I thought the comments in this thread were perfectly reasonable - she had a consult about it, it wasn't the right fit for her, she moved on. K9 I can't say I have a view of what you do at all really, clouded or otherwise Although I will be sure to rectify that by having a read of your book. PM's comments were quite non-specific about who she was referring to as a few names were thrown around in the thread, and it could only be deduced from an unrefuted comment by someone else. I purely felt the need to jump in because I believe it is important for people to follow the training method that suits them, and was taken aback by the response she got. But the original matter seems to be settled among the parties now :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Hmm, if you don't have a view of my you seemed to come up with prong collar and e collar reference fast. No PM could have been talking about anyone, after the edit lol. Glad trainers in wa working for you, pop some video up, live to see. Hope you enjoy the ebook :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) Yes, Stan's Mum (and Weasels) I was a little shocked that I should be ridiculed for a comment about the use of aversives by a trainer - when all I was pointing out was that some trainers (Delta) work on a positive model. I'm happy for this to be the end of it. I think it would be unproductive to comment further. No, that wasn't all you were saying. You referred to a trainer and made an incorrect statement about the advice they supposedly gave you. I made a joke (I was certainly not trying to ridicule you LOL) because not only did I find what you said a bit absurd but I also don't understand what is that bad about a trainer recommending a bark collar anyway. I also get a bit tired of the assumption made by people that we aren't "positive" in the training methods we use. I not only find it incorrect but a bit insulting. Besides, the old positive vs negative debate is pretty tired. Edited June 5, 2012 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Hmm, if you don't have a view of my you seemed to come up with prong collar and e collar reference fast. No PM could have been talking about anyone, after the edit lol. Glad trainers in wa working for you, pop some video up, live to see. Hope you enjoy the ebook :) I really don't have a hidden agenda here. I mention prongs with e-collars because they are both tools many people have an opinion on whether they will or won't use. My only point is to support that people are free to chose what methods they use with their own dogs. If using a certain method takes 3 times as long but the handler is dedicated and happier using it, then I'd hate to see someone ridiculed for that. Whether the trainer recommending each method is a cackling dog-hating warlock, the warmest fuzziest +R trainer on earth, or a competent professional balanced trainer is not related to my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy's mum Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Yes, Stan's Mum (and Weasels) I was a little shocked that I should be ridiculed for a comment about the use of aversives by a trainer - when all I was pointing out was that some trainers (Delta) work on a positive model. I'm happy for this to be the end of it. I think it would be unproductive to comment further. No, that wasn't all you were saying. You referred to a trainer and made an incorrect statement about the advice they supposedly gave you. I made a joke (I was certainly not trying to ridicule you LOL) because not only did I find what you said a bit absurd but I also don't understand what is that bad about a trainer recommending a bark collar anyway. I also get a bit tired of the assumption made by people that we aren't "positive" in the training methods we use. I not only find it incorrect but a bit insulting. Besides, the old positive vs negative debate is pretty tired. I know what I was saying. I prefer R + Not sure why that is a problem for you. As for "Advice supposedly given" I am speechless at you inferring that I might be lying! When it is clear you have no issue with using aversive devices - "bark collars" if you prefer to call them that. My post was information. I had no intention of attracting this kind of personal attack by exercising my right of free speech. You have to let other views be heard in a public forum occasionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Yes, Stan's Mum (and Weasels) I was a little shocked that I should be ridiculed for a comment about the use of aversives by a trainer - when all I was pointing out was that some trainers (Delta) work on a positive model. I'm happy for this to be the end of it. I think it would be unproductive to comment further. No, that wasn't all you were saying. You referred to a trainer and made an incorrect statement about the advice they supposedly gave you. I made a joke (I was certainly not trying to ridicule you LOL) because not only did I find what you said a bit absurd but I also don't understand what is that bad about a trainer recommending a bark collar anyway. I also get a bit tired of the assumption made by people that we aren't "positive" in the training methods we use. I not only find it incorrect but a bit insulting. Besides, the old positive vs negative debate is pretty tired. Ok firstly apologies to the OP for sending this thread off the rails.Secondly Huski PM has already stated that it would be unproductive for her to comment anymore so don't quote her.What I find "absurd" being your favorite word is that you find it funny to belittle someone in your ""professional" position.Leave it alone this is a public forum and you are not doing yourself any favours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) I know what I was saying. I prefer R + Not sure why that is a problem for you. As for "Advice supposedly given" I am speechless at you inferring that I might be lying! When it is clear you have no issue with using aversive devices - "bark collars" if you prefer to call them that. My post was information. I had no intention of attracting this kind of personal attack by exercising my right of free speech. You have to let other views be heard in a public forum occasionally. You are more than entitled to share you opinion and views, as am I. I didn't say you were lying, I just don't think it's entirely accurate to say that is all you would have gotten out of a consult. I honestly believe we would never push any client into using a tool they were not comfortable with or wasn't what was deemed the most appropriate tool for that dog, handler and situation. I think it's unfair for you to paint a different picture and not expect any response. Ok firstly apologies to the OP for sending this thread off the rails.Secondly Huski PM has already stated that it would be unproductive for her to comment anymore so don't quote her.What I find "absurd" being your favorite word is that you find it funny to belittle someone in your ""professional" position.Leave it alone this is a public forum and you are not doing yourself any favours. So it's ok for everyone to post their opinions, just not for me to respond? I am not trying to belittle anyone. This is a public forum and therefore I have a right to post my opinion professional or otherwise. Edited June 5, 2012 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) YES! That is right Huski you have the right to respond but the bottom line to me (for what it's worth because at the moment it feels like I'm flogging a dead horse)is you were rude to PM professional or otherwise. Edited June 5, 2012 by stans mum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Can we draw a line and move on. Please get back to the OP's original question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Joanna Righetti is in Sydney - http://www.petproblemsolved.com.au/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casowner Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Hello all, We've only just taken ownership of two adult miniature daschunds, and are looking for a good trainer/behaviourist (preferably in home) in Sydney, to assist in settling them in and addressing some obedience and barking behaviours. Any recommendations or advice would be greatly appreciated. Cheers. Hi OP I would appreciate it if you could update us when you find a trainer that you are happy with as I have a friend in Sydney that is getting a large breed pup soon and will be looking for a trainer. Interpersonal skills and professionalism will be really important for this client as well as a high level training ability as she tends to be quite sensitive to overly strong personalities. Good luck with your daccies :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandella Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I have used a couple of trainers in the past who both use different training methods. I put in the same amount of effort for both but I definitely gained more results from positive reinforcement. I highly recommend Shona from Positive Paws http://www.positivepawsdt.com.au. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I think we would all agree that the best method depends on the individual dog itself and the specific problem the dog presents with... In my opinion there are no safe "methods" only safe and sensible trainers who know which is the most appropriate method for the situation. Even positive reinforcement can be dangerous if given at the wrong time... I think it is poor form to bad mouth or misrepresent information about a professional company/service on a public forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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