Cookie - Dumped Kitten

[BC Crazy]

K9 angle, hats off to you & your darling family for your total devotion & dedication. Have been watching Cookie's progress & she looks amazing in such a short space of time. Marvellous

Everything is crossed for her today at the vets You can do it Cookie girl.

Had to edit this, Oh S#%T not good news Yes the 'I thinks' from the vet make me think, hmmm. Bloody hell Oh this is so not fair, poor Cookie.

Edited May 29, 2012 by BC Crazy

[huntrox]

Did she do any x-rays??

[melinda10786]

I think perhaps you need a second opinion? If the vet 'thinks' that she has a fractured spine, then it sounds like they aren't really sure. Hugs to you for everything you've done for Cookie.

[Cheyd]

I agree with a second opinion, or at least wait to speak to your normal vet. My Jess had a fractured pelvis when she was young, took a long time but she did heal over time, hopefully Cookie's back will also heal

I still have everything crossed for Cookie, c'mon girl

[huntrox]

Sorry, yes she did have x-rays. I agree too, second opinion.

[aussielover]

:cry:

It's not good news guys. The vet just called (a fill in, I don't know where Phil is?), she said she 'thinks' she has a fractured spine. She did say the lumbar? vertabrae? no. but I was too shocked to take it in. I feel sick.

I tried to explain to her that she has been improving and that if she had a broken back, she wouldn't do that would she? she didn't really give an answer. Her main concern was the urine scold, which I did explain has only started yesterday/today. She strongly advised to pts and wants me to sign the consent forms.

I don't know what to do. It's obviously not a clear break if she 'thinks' she has a fractured spine? and what about the improvements I've seen? I don't get it? I am going to have a look at the xrays myself (not that I will know what I am looking at, but surely a break would be somewhat noticeable?) Oh and she said something about her not having control her bladder??. She does. She always goes after a feed or if I am cleaning down around her bum. She doesn't just pee anywhere, anytime - so she's got some control.

I told her I would be in this afternoon, I have to wait for OH to get in and mind the kids for me. I don't want them there if I have to say goodbye to her. I asked about her pelvis and she said it seems to be fine. It's the lower back where the problem is. I just wish she gave me a definate answer instead of "I think".

Firstly, good on you for taking on this poor kitten and at least giving her a chance. You are obviously an amazing person.

By the sounds of things, Cookie retains both superficial pain response and voluntary limb movement in her hindlimbs. These signs are GOOD prognostic indicators. Recovery of neurological function can take months. Obviously, during this time, the animals require intensive care with regard to nursing (toileting, physio, feeding etc).

Even for animals that are completely paralyzed with no deep pain, it is recommended (if the owner wishes) to give them at least 2 months to recover some neurological function- if the cause for spinal cord damage has been removed (if it hasn't been removed than there will be no improvement).

I think it is pretty poor form to only be *partially* sure that the animal has a fractured vetebral column and hence recommend euthanasia. As a minimum, radiographs should be performed. Even then unless there is severe luxaion of the vertebrae, they will not tell us about the extent of spinal cord damage and whether it is likely to resolve, or if there are surgical options for correction. A myelogram or MRI would be needed to determine this.

Obviously all this requires time and money, but the vet should at least offer the "gold standard" approach and then let the owner decide how far they want to go.

Personally, I would be inclined to continue giving the nursing care you are providing, and at least give the kitten a few more weeks, as it seems she does make improvements over time. It seems she is not suffering or in any pain at present.

My main concern would be the issue of incontinence as it seems Cookie doesn't have 100% control, going after feeding or stimulating her perineum may be considered a reflex action rather than concious control. But the fact that she does go by herself (even if stimulated in some way) is a good sign again. The main risk for incontinent animals is UTI and bladder atony (where the bladder becomes very large and flaccid and can't contract properly). If she is urinating regularly, her chances of complications are less likely. Only time will tell whether she will regain full function unfortunately.

ETA: You can request that the radiographs are read by a specialist if there is any doubt over such a potentially serious diagnosis.

Going off her clinical signs and possible contience issues, I'd say her problem probably is lumbosacral. A "fractured" spine is not always very obvious as there may not be a crack through bone, but instead there may be a luxation between 2 vertebrae (eg. instead of being in a line, one of the vertebrae will be displaced usually up or down). This can be quite subtle. But as I said before if it is subtle, its really hard to tell what the actual damage to the spinal cord itself is.

Edited May 29, 2012 by aussielover

[Michelleva]

Massive hugs Rach.. I agree you need to speak to your normal vet. I'm still sending loads more positive energy little cookie's way.

PS - Great post Aussielover.

[Kirislin]

I'm so sorry it wasn't diagnosed sooner, to save her the suffering and you the heartache. I hate to imagine how hard it will be to say goodbye now if it comes to that.

[BC Crazy]

K9 angel. This must be just so very hard for you. I have become so attached to Cookie, I can only imagine how hard it is for you & you family.

I would be getting another opinion if at all possible. I would like to help $$ cause I just think Cookie has a bit more fight left in her.

Could you give me details so I could help out. It will only be a small help but at least it will be something I guess. Good luck & Cookie has my blessing what ever you decide.

You know what is best for her

+1 Great post aussielover.

Edited May 29, 2012 by BC Crazy

[mita]

Massive hugs Rach.. I agree you need to speak to your normal vet. I'm still sending loads more positive energy little cookie's way.

PS - Great post Aussielover.

Yes, thank you, Aussielover, for a great post.

Edited May 29, 2012 by mita

[k9angel]

:cry:

It's not good news guys. The vet just called (a fill in, I don't know where Phil is?), she said she 'thinks' she has a fractured spine. She did say the lumbar? vertabrae? no. but I was too shocked to take it in. I feel sick.

I tried to explain to her that she has been improving and that if she had a broken back, she wouldn't do that would she? she didn't really give an answer. Her main concern was the urine scold, which I did explain has only started yesterday/today. She strongly advised to pts and wants me to sign the consent forms.

I don't know what to do. It's obviously not a clear break if she 'thinks' she has a fractured spine? and what about the improvements I've seen? I don't get it? I am going to have a look at the xrays myself (not that I will know what I am looking at, but surely a break would be somewhat noticeable?) Oh and she said something about her not having control her bladder??. She does. She always goes after a feed or if I am cleaning down around her bum. She doesn't just pee anywhere, anytime - so she's got some control.

I told her I would be in this afternoon, I have to wait for OH to get in and mind the kids for me. I don't want them there if I have to say goodbye to her. I asked about her pelvis and she said it seems to be fine. It's the lower back where the problem is. I just wish she gave me a definate answer instead of "I think".

Firstly, good on you for taking on this poor kitten and at least giving her a chance. You are obviously an amazing person.

By the sounds of things, Cookie retains both superficial pain response and voluntary limb movement in her hindlimbs. These signs are GOOD prognostic indicators. Recovery of neurological function can take months. Obviously, during this time, the animals require intensive care with regard to nursing (toileting, physio, feeding etc).

Even for animals that are completely paralyzed with no deep pain, it is recommended (if the owner wishes) to give them at least 2 months to recover some neurological function- if the cause for spinal cord damage has been removed (if it hasn't been removed than there will be no improvement).

I think it is pretty poor form to only be *partially* sure that the animal has a fractured vetebral column and hence recommend euthanasia. As a minimum, radiographs should be performed. Even then unless there is severe luxaion of the vertebrae, they will not tell us about the extent of spinal cord damage and whether it is likely to resolve, or if there are surgical options for correction. A myelogram or MRI would be needed to determine this.

Obviously all this requires time and money, but the vet should at least offer the "gold standard" approach and then let the owner decide how far they want to go.

Personally, I would be inclined to continue giving the nursing care you are providing, and at least give the kitten a few more weeks, as it seems she does make improvements over time. It seems she is not suffering or in any pain at present.

My main concern would be the issue of incontinence as it seems Cookie doesn't have 100% control, going after feeding or stimulating her perineum may be considered a reflex action rather than concious control. But the fact that she does go by herself (even if stimulated in some way) is a good sign again. The main risk for incontinent animals is UTI and bladder atony (where the bladder becomes very large and flaccid and can't contract properly). If she is urinating regularly, her chances of complications are less likely. Only time will tell whether she will regain full function unfortunately.

ETA: You can request that the radiographs are read by a specialist if there is any doubt over such a potentially serious diagnosis.

Going off her clinical signs and possible contience issues, I'd say her problem probably is lumbosacral. A "fractured" spine is not always very obvious as there may not be a crack through bone, but instead there may be a luxation between 2 vertebrae (eg. instead of being in a line, one of the vertebrae will be displaced usually up or down). This can be quite subtle. But as I said before if it is subtle, its really hard to tell what the actual damage to the spinal cord itself is.

Thankyou so much for your post Aussielover.

I have thought it over carefully and watched and re-watched the video's I made of her. She is making progress, there is no denying that. The video's prove it. Thank God I made them otherwise I would of questioned whether it was my imagination or whether she really was improving.

I have decided I will continue working with her for a little while longer. I am picking her up shortly. If we don't see any further improvement in the next week or two, I will set her free but because I have seen remarkable improvement in just the past week alone, I am going to hang in there just a little while more.

I will also be asking the regular vet to go over the x-ray for a 2nd opinion.

And when I pick her up I will ask if they have any ointment for her urine scald as that's the only thing causing her any discomfort at the moment. (from my observations and the vets).

If anyone else has any suggestions re; remedy for the urine scald, please let me know.

Thanks and thanks again for all your support.

[Pammie-Jayne]

You truly are an amazing woman. You have so much love, patience and kindness. May you and your family always be blessed for all the great work you. xx

[KKDD]

K9angel on several occasions when I took my dachshunds to vets partial paralysis, they misdiagnosed (which led to mishandling and exacerbation of the problem) because they were not familiar with classic symptoms of a spinal chord that has been compressed. A vet who is familiar with a condition will generally know exactly what they are looking at. If Kitty's spine is fractured, the chord is evidently not completely severed but rather, given her compromised function, likely damaged or compressed/pinched. Spinal chords can recover, especially in a young animal although compression or pinching must be removed - and surgery can be expensive. Urinary and feacal incontinence were problems in each of my dogs cases, and recovered along with mobility. I strongly urge a second opinion, from a vet who is very familiar with spinal injuries.

Edited May 29, 2012 by KKDD

[Guest Wildthing]

I have read this story and have been amazed at Cookies progress in a short period of time. As an ex nurse and having been in cat rescue for nearly 17 years, I have often seen some incredible things happen. Barbara Jackson of Wildcats in QLD once went against vets advice to PTS and the cat made a full recovery. Sometimes it pays to persist, but keep the video diary for you to reflect on her progress. The power of positive thinking can achieve amazing things. Many years ago I took a 10 - 12 month old female cat that only weighed 1.5kgs and was three weeks pregnant. Vets advice was terminate after the cat has gained sufficient weight. I do not terminate pregnancies after 5 weeks gestation. I decided to let nature take its course. There were problems with the pregnancy, but in the end her body and nature decided the outcome. This cat also had lower back problems - was not able to jump onto the bed. Veterinary chiropractor visit and an incredible improvement. She had a few more adjustments to her spine and every time there were improvements. I refused to give in and allow the cat to live without the ability to jump. Eventually she was adopted and has a wonderful life. The back problems were thought to be caused by trauma - a foot or other object probably inflicted by a human. As I live in Canberra, I am unable to physically help you, but can suggest trying to find an animal physio or chiropractor later on may help Cookie on her road to recovery. There is some wonderful support out there for you and Cookie and we are all keeping the positive thoughts going for you both. The only thing I can say about urine scold is NOT to use baby oil as it does not work - tried it on some kittens years ago. Hand raising unweaned kittens I just use warm water with a drop of natural animal shampoo. I will keep checking to see how you progress. Brenda Colbourne ACT Cat Rescue and Rehoming

[Michelleva]

Thanks for not giving up on her Rach, I knew you wouldn't.

[Nic.B]

Oh, little Cookie is most certainly a fighter.

I am not at all experienced with cats, though when my children were tiny they at times developed a nappy rash. Urine aggravated it enormously even though they were changed immediately.

A family friend is a midwife with over 30 years’ experience and she suggested putting bicarb in a little shaker and cornflour in the other. Once they were clean and dry I sprinkled a little bit of the bicarb and cornflour on their bottoms. I was amazed how quickly it cleared up!

I would be inclined to give her a little brazilian around those areas, it may help as all traces of urine etc can be easily cleaned away and dried immediately.

Puppy pads underneath her would also help draw away any urine.

I agree with a second opinion if you have any doubts, at least that way you won’t ever be wondering “what if”.

There is most certainly no doubt Cookie is looking much better, seeing her feeling the love and compassion she needs and deserves is beautiful.

ETA The bicarb neutralised the acid in the urine, forget what the cornflour did! perhaps just sooth the skin.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Nic.B

[dandybrush]

come on cookie!! proove the vets wrong!!

do you have a specialist near you?? i would recommend one 100% over a regular vet

lets hope she just keeps improving over the next 1-2 weeks

[huntrox]

Keep strong Rach and thank you so much for giving Cookie a chance, you truely are an angel

[Camellia12]

:cry:

It's not good news guys. The vet just called (a fill in, I don't know where Phil is?), she said she 'thinks' she has a fractured spine. She did say the lumbar? vertabrae? no. but I was too shocked to take it in. I feel sick.

I tried to explain to her that she has been improving and that if she had a broken back, she wouldn't do that would she? she didn't really give an answer. Her main concern was the urine scold, which I did explain has only started yesterday/today. She strongly advised to pts and wants me to sign the consent forms.

I don't know what to do. It's obviously not a clear break if she 'thinks' she has a fractured spine? and what about the improvements I've seen? I don't get it? I am going to have a look at the xrays myself (not that I will know what I am looking at, but surely a break would be somewhat noticeable?) Oh and she said something about her not having control her bladder??. She does. She always goes after a feed or if I am cleaning down around her bum. She doesn't just pee anywhere, anytime - so she's got some control.

I told her I would be in this afternoon, I have to wait for OH to get in and mind the kids for me. I don't want them there if I have to say goodbye to her. I asked about her pelvis and she said it seems to be fine. It's the lower back where the problem is. I just wish she gave me a definate answer instead of "I think".

Firstly, good on you for taking on this poor kitten and at least giving her a chance. You are obviously an amazing person.

By the sounds of things, Cookie retains both superficial pain response and voluntary limb movement in her hindlimbs. These signs are GOOD prognostic indicators. Recovery of neurological function can take months. Obviously, during this time, the animals require intensive care with regard to nursing (toileting, physio, feeding etc).

Even for animals that are completely paralyzed with no deep pain, it is recommended (if the owner wishes) to give them at least 2 months to recover some neurological function- if the cause for spinal cord damage has been removed (if it hasn't been removed than there will be no improvement).

I think it is pretty poor form to only be *partially* sure that the animal has a fractured vetebral column and hence recommend euthanasia. As a minimum, radiographs should be performed. Even then unless there is severe luxaion of the vertebrae, they will not tell us about the extent of spinal cord damage and whether it is likely to resolve, or if there are surgical options for correction. A myelogram or MRI would be needed to determine this.

Obviously all this requires time and money, but the vet should at least offer the "gold standard" approach and then let the owner decide how far they want to go.

Personally, I would be inclined to continue giving the nursing care you are providing, and at least give the kitten a few more weeks, as it seems she does make improvements over time. It seems she is not suffering or in any pain at present.

My main concern would be the issue of incontinence as it seems Cookie doesn't have 100% control, going after feeding or stimulating her perineum may be considered a reflex action rather than concious control. But the fact that she does go by herself (even if stimulated in some way) is a good sign again. The main risk for incontinent animals is UTI and bladder atony (where the bladder becomes very large and flaccid and can't contract properly). If she is urinating regularly, her chances of complications are less likely. Only time will tell whether she will regain full function unfortunately.

ETA: You can request that the radiographs are read by a specialist if there is any doubt over such a potentially serious diagnosis.

Going off her clinical signs and possible contience issues, I'd say her problem probably is lumbosacral. A "fractured" spine is not always very obvious as there may not be a crack through bone, but instead there may be a luxation between 2 vertebrae (eg. instead of being in a line, one of the vertebrae will be displaced usually up or down). This can be quite subtle. But as I said before if it is subtle, its really hard to tell what the actual damage to the spinal cord itself is.

Thankyou so much for your post Aussielover.

I have thought it over carefully and watched and re-watched the video's I made of her. She is making progress, there is no denying that. The video's prove it. Thank God I made them otherwise I would of questioned whether it was my imagination or whether she really was improving.

I have decided I will continue working with her for a little while longer. I am picking her up shortly. If we don't see any further improvement in the next week or two, I will set her free but because I have seen remarkable improvement in just the past week alone, I am going to hang in there just a little while more.

I will also be asking the regular vet to go over the x-ray for a 2nd opinion.

And when I pick her up I will ask if they have any ointment for her urine scald as that's the only thing causing her any discomfort at the moment. (from my observations and the vets).

If anyone else has any suggestions re; remedy for the urine scald, please let me know.

Thanks and thanks again for all your support.

Hello K9Angel. I think Aussielover's post was great too. Now that I know what transpired at your vets today, I am going to go and see my vet here in Canberra and get her to speak with their super brilliant orthopaedic surgeon on staff to at least get her view of what the outlook might be for Cookie. I know she did some of her training in Sydney so she may also be able to recommend a good orthopaedic surgeon in Sydney too (not that I'm advocating surgery necessarily) but just to get a view on Cookie's potential prognosis and a highly regarded specialist's opinion on the possible outlook for Cookie. Clearly that is hard without examining x-rays herself or doing further investigation but she may be able to tell me what might be best to pursue. She also has dealings I think with the top feline specialist in Australia who works out of Sydney university (or at least used to).

Depending on what might be suggested for further investigation (and clearly any decision about further investigation and tests would have to be made by you, Cookie's loving carer) I would be happy to contribute money if Cookie had some hope (Aussielover's comment about what might be required for a more definitive diagnosis is right) and I suspect it will be expensive. Having said that, it appears you have support from many people who are willing to contribute to save Cookie. I'll get back to you about the above once I have spoken to my vet here in Canberra in case that is of any help to you. Cookie has agreat carer in you :)

[Kajtek]

A heart felt thank you k9angel and a train of healing vibes for Cookie.