nawnim Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) ... Edited May 31, 2012 by padraic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nawnim Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) ... Edited May 31, 2012 by padraic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nawnim Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) ... Edited May 31, 2012 by padraic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nawnim Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) ... Edited June 1, 2012 by padraic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nawnim Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) ... Edited June 1, 2012 by padraic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valbitz Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 With all due respect I think you are being a bit harsh. Personally I haven't come across any rescue snobs with the rescues I have been in contact with when it comes to the rescue thread that I put up. That's the problem with snobbery - if you're "in" with those who consider themselves better than others, you experience it. Maybe I have lucky but I haven't come across "those who consider themselves better than others" yet and I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean by being "in" with them. Believe me I know what a snob is as my own mother is one and after being raised by a snob I can smell one at 20 feet :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 As for threads that can be accessed from Google I don't think that is a bad thing as the general public gets an education as to the reality of what happens to some of the pound animals and to me avoiding the rescue thread is like avoiding the "bad news" on TV it doesn't make the problem go away. I don't think that it does educate people about the whole reality, and that is part of the problem. Instead it narrows the focus in a way to elicit a certain reaction. The bigger picture is revealed when you look at overall numbers and patterns of dogs needing rescue. When you look a the way that dogs are bred and then placed in homes in the first place (acknowledgement here to Haredown's responsible ANKC breeders who don't contribute to the problem), when you learn about what is involved in preparing a rescue dog for sale, and have an understanding of the limited resources available. By reading about rescue (rather than looking at lists of dogs), the stories people tell of their experiences, good and bad, you are in a much better position to help solve or to even prevent some of the problems. I guess the bottom line is that some of these dogs will not make good pets.It's really sad, but it is a fact of life. Instead they will bring considerable expense and heartache to their new owners. A rescue organisation's task is to make sure the dogs they are placing in people's homes are not going to cause any major problems. And to do that you need to take an emotional step back from individual dogs, and consider the longer-term needs of the communities that these dogs will be placed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 I have never seen snobbery in the rescue forum. Only a bunch of dog passionate people trying to save lives, often out of their own back pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curlybert Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 I personally have found that the rescue snobs have their own cliques and they do not deign to answer questions from other dolers who are not part of their in-group. Some even address each other by real names and sign with a real name and the name of their rescue group. Is this advertising? Methinks it's best if I run for cover now, but perhaps I'm safe because rescue snobs don't post in the general thread. I'm puzzled by your post. Rescue snobs? I was still trying to get my head around the idea of pure-breed snobs, who I have also never encountered. But back to alleged rescue snobs - can you give some examples, with identifiers removed? I can only think that someone who posts on a rescue thread that they are interested in a particular dog already saved by rescue would need to go through that rescue's normal channels to acquire the dog - including yard inspection, completion of a questionnaire and so forth. If they were particularly keen on a saved but still impounded dog, they could go the pound themsleves and purchase it as a member of the public. The public always has priority over rescue. But there should not be an expectation that a rescue will do the hard yards springing a dog and then just hand it over to someone who wants it. It's all there on the rescue forum if you would like to look for it. :) I'm quite familiar with the rescue threads. I'm asking you to provide examples to support your assertion because I can't recall any posts that do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 I no longer visit the rescue section because I do get teary and not only because of the unfortunate dogs. I personally have found that the rescue snobs have their own cliques and they do not deign to answer questions from other dolers who are not part of their in-group. Some even address each other by real names and sign with a real name and the name of their rescue group. Is this advertising? I'm not sure why rescue does not have its own closed forum or private email group. Some of the information about the reasons why a dog should find itself in need of rescue should be confidential and not be aired on a public forum. Threads can be accessed from Google and in some cases it would be fairly easy to work out the identity of the original owner. Methinks it's best if I run for cover now, but perhaps I'm safe because rescue snobs don't post in the general thread. You are so far wrong, it isn't funny! You've just joined the forum but went in to rescue with boots on - as far as I could see you were just in there to question everything you saw as being wrong. One of the people you wanted to check on was me. I had said that I'd had to turn down a desperately needed foster home for two reasons: 1. The applicant and sister turned out to have parents who owned the house, lived there and actually didn't want to have any foster dogs. 2. The house had a doggie door (great!) to the backyard and an unfenced pool (not great). You suggested that we should perhaps worry about being in legal trouble for turning down foster carers. As you couldn't see that the two reasons above weren't fair for turning someone down, I shared with you the benefit of some of my experience. You were also concerned with another very experienced rescuer using a Caesar Milan technique when introducing dogs into the household. The other option at the time for that particular dog was death. None of the above involves "snobbery" - it's about years of hard work in the rescue field and tonnes of experience. You are welcome to ask questions of rescue - you can ask me anything you like here or pm me. I'm happy to take people out on the road with me, doing pound visits, rehoming and foster care. Many of them have come once, burst into tears and given up, I've tried to help - believe me I've been there, plenty of times but that doesn't save any dogs, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) Dogmad: You were also concerned with another very experienced rescuer using a Caesar Milan technique when introducing dogs into the household. The other option at the time for that particular dog was death. Dogmad, you know I have no difficulties with your practices but sadly the quote above is used by some rescue folk to justify just about anything. Overcrowding, warehousing in kennels, failure to temperament test, failure to quarantine, revolving door rescue, rehoming dogs with aggression histories, rehoming undesexed.. placing challenging dogs with novice foster carers.. deaths and injury to rescue dogs by dog attack in foster homes.. you name it. And the more responsible rescuers know it. That's why the word "responsible" needs a bigger work out, in breeding, in rescue, in ownership. Because if any of us are not doing what we're doing responsibly then any statement about being "all for the dogs" is a total crock. And those NOT doing it responsibly shouldn't get to hide behind the skirts of those who do or to justify what they do in terms of the best interests of the dogs. There ARE worse fates for a dog than a humane death and frankly a small minority of rescuers need to cowboy up and face it. And frankly the "circle the wagons' and ignore the concerns of others approach some adopt means it ain't going to happen. Edited May 20, 2012 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 I only foster for a well known rescue group and have never seen any snobbery there. every question I have ever asked has been answered as soon as it is noticed and the rescue coordinators are very helpful. From my experience they all work together to save as many as possible... Many times I have seen BDR and ARF work together, that is just an example, there are many more that could be named... In answering the OP, yes, I do every time I check out the urgent rescues... Sadly they cannot save them all... Obviously you are part of the in-group and I don't see anything remarkable about two rescue groups working together. Isn't that what the forum is supposed to do? :) I am by no means part of any 'in' group... I find offense at you saying I am... I have fostered just 3 dogs in the last 7 months with the help of my wonderful mentor. I have been a member on DOL for many more years than I have been fostering, so how you could even conclude I am in a certain group is beyond me. 2 rescue groups working together is very remarkable... Anyone working together to save the dogs that can be rehomed is remarkable. Perhaps you don't get the response you want to your questions because of the way you ask them... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 I get you HW but this was not a cowboy rescuer involved although someone who has only been on the forum a month or so isn't to know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valbitz Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 As for threads that can be accessed from Google I don't think that is a bad thing as the general public gets an education as to the reality of what happens to some of the pound animals and to me avoiding the rescue thread is like avoiding the "bad news" on TV it doesn't make the problem go away. I don't think that it does educate people about the whole reality, and that is part of the problem. Instead it narrows the focus in a way to elicit a certain reaction. The bigger picture is revealed when you look at overall numbers and patterns of dogs needing rescue. When you look a the way that dogs are bred and then placed in homes in the first place (acknowledgement here to Haredown's responsible ANKC breeders who don't contribute to the problem), when you learn about what is involved in preparing a rescue dog for sale, and have an understanding of the limited resources available. By reading about rescue (rather than looking at lists of dogs), the stories people tell of their experiences, good and bad, you are in a much better position to help solve or to even prevent some of the problems. I guess the bottom line is that some of these dogs will not make good pets.It's really sad, but it is a fact of life. Instead they will bring considerable expense and heartache to their new owners. A rescue organisation's task is to make sure the dogs they are placing in people's homes are not going to cause any major problems. And to do that you need to take an emotional step back from individual dogs, and consider the longer-term needs of the communities that these dogs will be placed in. You are right, and my use of the word education is probably wrong, maybe I should have said "makes the public aware.." Good post by the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 I get you HW but this was not a cowboy rescuer involved although someone who has only been on the forum a month or so isn't to know that. Then maybe a little more education and a little less siege mentality is called for. Christ knows, registered breeders and trainers spend half their lives on this forum handing out free advice to BYB pup and pet shop puppy buyers - for the benefit of the dogs. A closed ranks, delete the thread and repel all boarders approach in the rescue forum doesn't educate anyone. Frankly some of the homing decisions I've seen foisted on novice dog owners who are doing precisely what rescuers want them to do (adopt) appall me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 I get you HW but this was not a cowboy rescuer involved although someone who has only been on the forum a month or so isn't to know that. Then maybe a little more education and a little less siege mentality is called for. Christ knows, registered breeders and trainers spend half their lives on this forum handing out free advice to BYB pup and pet shop puppy buyers - for the benefit of the dogs. A closed ranks, delete the thread and repel all boarders approach in the rescue forum doesn't educate anyone. Frankly some of the homing decisions I've seen foisted on novice dog owners who are doing precisely what rescuers want them to do (adopt) appall me. I think you are exagerrating just a little here. You also need to remember that DOL is a purebred forum, as rescuers we are not free to roam in all sections and some of us will have our memberships cancelled for being a little too open with information on non-rescuers. That's all I'll say as i do not want my membership to be cancelled. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 I am by no means part of any 'in' group... I find offense at you saying I am... Oh honey you so are - and you shouldn't be offended by it. You are a respected rescuer and foster carer. You can comment and ask questions and get responses because to a rescuer you are "one of us". Being part of the "in crowd" doesn't have to be a bad thing - but it colours how you see the world. Don't for a moment think that there aren't other "in groups" around that folk can be members of and be similarly affected. ANKC registered breeders is another here. Hell, they have a closed forum!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 You also need to remember that DOL is a purebred forum, as rescuers we are not free to roam in all sections and some of us will have our memberships cancelled for being a little too open with information on non-rescuers. That's all I'll say as i do not want my membership to be cancelled. :) With respect, a little more roaming might reduce some of the hot house mentality of the rescue forum. You know as well as I do that there are rescue forum folk that never post anywhere else - perhaps in part because they feel that they don't get the deference they get in rescue??? I think some rescuers would benefit from spending time in the health and training forums.. and the puppy one. That's where some of the owners of future surrenders start their careers here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) You also need to remember that DOL is a purebred forum, as rescuers we are not free to roam in all sections and some of us will have our memberships cancelled for being a little too open with information on non-rescuers. That's all I'll say as i do not want my membership to be cancelled. :) With respect, a little more roaming might reduce some of the hot house mentality of the rescue forum. You know as well as I do that there are rescue forum folk that never post anywhere else - perhaps in part because they feel that they don't get the deference they get in rescue??? I think some rescuers would benefit from spending time in the health and training forums.. and the puppy one. That's where some of the owners of future surrenders start their careers here. They may not have much time - I know I don't but I regularly go into some of the other sections and provide information. I certainly have little time for the other craze - Facebook - bores the crap out of me. When you've worked a full day, come home to your own dogs and then end up spending 3 hours on the phone/email, eating dinner at 9.30 - as happened to me for a few days the other week - you may not have the time or the energy left to go through all the forums just in case there's something you can offer advice on. And it often leaves me dismayed. There is the owner posting in the Health thread about a whippet who can't gain weight. Plenty of people offering advice but sometimes people aren't prepared to listen ... I find your suggestion that we need to be lauded, VERY offensive. Edited May 20, 2012 by dogmad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) I am by no means part of any 'in' group... I find offense at you saying I am... Oh honey you so are - and you shouldn't be offended by it. You are a respected rescuer and foster carer. You can comment and ask questions and get responses because to a rescuer you are "one of us". Being part of the "in crowd" doesn't have to be a bad thing - but it colours how you see the world. Don't for a moment think that there aren't other "in groups" around that folk can be members of and be similarly affected. ANKC registered breeders is another here. Hell, they have a closed forum!! HW I have never considered myself part of anything other than DOL as a whole... I love this forum and am so grateful to Troy for keeping it going. DOL has been there with so much advice and support over my years as a member in the palliative care threads over the years Ollie had cancer and rainbow bridge when he finally passed away. How many wonderful members kept me brave when my son was missing in the bush years ago.. The wonderful crew who frequent OT and give all manner of advice on everything from cooking to divorce... The photo forum where I get to pick the brains of all the great photographers and share all the Ziggy and foster dog pictures. I have recently discovered the training thread with Ziggy as he has a few issues that we are working on.. Also general for all the basic stuff and the breed threads... Nah I am not In the in crowd, just glad to be a part of it all :D ETA I think the breeders should have their own section.. After all this is a purebred dog forum. I think we are lucky to have so many other aspects to contribute to.. Edited May 20, 2012 by Staffyluv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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