I Am Not A Snob -

[Angeluca]

I often get the

"why the hell would you pay $1000, $2000 just for a dog when you can get them off the notice board for $50 or the pound for $300?"

I think the snob label comes from the price we pay for an animal just like people who buy handbags for $2000 in comparison to the $50 bag from Big W. So a purebred or designer dog is for wealthier citizens to put it politely and petshop pups can spontaneous ATM-pup. Not many make the connection past cost. Nor do they see any possible future out lay for there choice in a $50 pup. People think more about what type of coffee they want longer then what sort of needs they or the animal has.

[Salukifan]

The "just a dog" argument is an extension of "all dogs are basically the same" one I think. And it simply isn't so.

[LizT]

I think it goes back to the days when only the rich could afford to own a purebred registered dog. BYB and hobbyists would be able to sell, cross breed and off load puppies, without any huge amount of labelling about what they did or didn't do. If you could buy a more affordable purebred dog all the better. Health testing was at it's minimal with most good breeders going by eye and experience and a Vet was only required for vaccinations, desexing and if an animal were sick or injured beyond the capacity of home remedies or a wish to be spared from the shotgun.

There were more than enough unwanted puppies being gladly given away for free for every man to be able to own some type of dog should he wish it. The surplus were quietly disposed of, no fuss was made about it, quickly despatched, easily replaced.

Now with the ability to draw on more scientific health testing a definative line has been drawn between BYB and Purebred dog breeders. Combine this with a social concience and you will immediately get factions.

Blaming purebred dog owners on the surplus today is about as logical as blaming Rescue groups for making it easy for people to offload their unwanted dogs with a lighter concience than in days gone by. Neither is that cut and dry.

[Salukifan]

All good points Liz T.

I think there's another dynamic at play too - most average families these days desex their pets - that message is getting through. So the days of getting a pup from your neighbour down the street and from a bitch you probably knew are gone.

So with pups, the sources are now the breeders for profit, the irresponsible/negilent, rescue (but not that many baby puppies are around) and ANKC breeders. And no folks, I don't think that they are three distinct and non-overlapping groups.

So if a responsibly bred, carefully raised pup is what you are after then the sources of those pups are narrowing constantly and generally in the direction of the ANKC.

Rescue is a good source of adult dogs but pups, not as much, particularly if you don't fancy making up for lost time, careless breeding and poor nuturing.

The money argument largely doesn't wash with me. Its a matter of priorities for many folk. I don't have a McMansion, Foxtel, a play station, a brand new car or go on expensive holidays. I've seen plenty of "just a dog" buyers who quibble over purchase prices on pups but don't stint on themselves.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[LizT]

Yes HW, what people are willing to pay for certain items really depends on where their priorities lie.

I can feed a horse easily with change in my pocket with what some people spend on cigarettes.

I can keep a number of dogs easily compared to what my "sisters" spends on hair and nails.

It's all about priorities and what matters to the individual.

Some people are just naturally bargain hunters and others people wouldn't buy something cheap because it must not have much value.

Example in point. My friend was selling a horse but didn't get many inquiries for this lovely fellow she had reschooled after a career at racing. She readveritsed him in a higher price bracket and was inundated with calls. The horse found a very, very good home easily.

[sparkycat]

I think it is important to remember that there are good and bad breeders of pedigree, cross- breeds and mutts.

To me all dogs are equal and they all deserve an equal chance in life.

[GregW]

Snobs are for coffee, cars, and computers, not animals :D

[mita]

I agree the notion of owning purebreds as 'snobbery' needs addressing. And I have heard in some sources that adopting a purebred condemns a 'shelter' dog to die.

But that wrong thinking does not come from the majority of the ethical Australian rescue groups who take care of homeless dogs.....all dogs, because they are dogs.

I've yet to hear any of those rescuers I've had dealings with, do or say anything judgmental about purebreds. And, tho' I try to assist when any rescue has what looks like a purebred tibbie.....I'll assist with any dog they have that needs special attention.

Last time I donated money towards surgery, I don't even know what breed or mix the little one was. Nor do I care. I trust entirely the integrity and practices of that rescue.

The only comments I've heard come from sources that assist homeless dogs....concerns the churning out of novelty mixes for a commercial pet market. Couple years ago, AWL in SA combined voices with the SA Kennel Association to point out that the shelter was being inundated by obvious 'produced' mixes.

Interestingly, our tibs' highly experienced groomer made a comment after grooming our new p/b tibbie for the first time....'In my opinion, the purebreds stand out a mile in comparison with the produced 'mixes'....quality of fur, proportions, even temperament.' I had to tell her there was proof for her 'good eye'. This tib's close relative had just won at B of B at Crufts.

The purebreds, which are bred and raised by the responsible, ethical registered breeders....actually prevent dogs being dumped. The evidence is in (a Q'ld study) that this type of registered breeder socialises their dogs and puppies better.....so they are less likely to develop the behaviours that lead to dumping.

And they are also far more likely to have control over the number of litters they produce, so have less accidental ones than unregistered breeders.

Once again, the good rescues also step up to the plate. Anyone who's been following the NSW rescue that's been saving pregnant mother dogs....& raising the puppies, then desexing the mother....will see the same sound practices at work in raising well-socialised puppies....& socialising the mother dogs.

I don't like the idea of some kind of division being drummed up between rescue and purebred dog breeding. The best of both are exemplary & have my respect.

Edited May 18, 2012 by mita

[Salukifan]

One more thing. History does not support the theory that purebred dogs were the sole purview of the wealthy. My two breeds of choice have some pretty strong working class or lower associations. Poachers and prostitutes!

Whippets were developed by English coal miners to race once a week and put a bunny in the cooking pot when they could.

Entire groups of purebred dogs were developed for working lives by people who carefully selected and refined certain characteristics because they didn't want to take chances on randomly bred pups.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[WreckitWhippet]

I'm "breedist" and I'm proud of it

I love the predicability that comes with a pedigree dog and even more so the predictability that comes with certain lines.

I'm no snob, I own, show, breed and rescue

[espinay2]

I often get the

"why the hell would you pay $1000, $2000 just for a dog when you can get them off the notice board for $50 or the pound for $300?"

I think the snob label comes from the price we pay for an animal just like people who buy handbags for $2000 in comparison to the $50 bag from Big W. So a purebred or designer dog is for wealthier citizens to put it politely and petshop pups can spontaneous ATM-pup. Not many make the connection past cost. Nor do they see any possible future out lay for there choice in a $50 pup. People think more about what type of coffee they want longer then what sort of needs they or the animal has.

And I wonder how many of these folks were first in line to get an ipad.......

[espinay2]

One more thing. History does not support the theory that purebred dogs were the sole purview of the wealthy. My two breeds of choice have some pretty strong working class or lower associations. Poachers and prostitutes!!

Entire groups of purebred dogs were developed for working lives by people who carefully selected and refined certain characteristics because they didn't want to take chances on randomly bred pups.

Same with mine. It was the French mountain farmers who were the mainstay of my breed. It did have its wealthy supporters too in later years, but it has always maintained strong roots and association with 'lowly farmers'.

[mita]

I often get the

"why the hell would you pay $1000, $2000 just for a dog when you can get them off the notice board for $50 or the pound for $300?"

I

Well, I have to answer that question with....'Actually, I had to make the registered breeders take any money at all for the exquisite, healthy and lovely -natured retired Aus Chs.' They only wanted the best of forever pet homes for their dogs who'd done their bit for the development of their breed.

And how did the first breeder make a 'call' that our home would be a good one? We once rescued a little mixed breed puppy, thrown from a car and she became our much loved housedog for nearly 23 years. The breeder said that good pet owners, in her eyes, were those who loved and cared for any dog.

Statistically, registered breeders like this who take good care of their dogs, home them responsibly after socialising them well...are keeping dogs out of pounds & shelters. And there's a scientific study to support that. It's not just about good breeding practices, it's about welfare, too.

Edited May 18, 2012 by mita

[Linda K]

Raiineth - go and check out Pethaven facebook page - you will find so much purebred hatred over there it is frightening, and anyone even poking up their head asking about buying from a breeder is hearily condened (and yet when this "rescue" group gets their hands on any purebreds through rescue, wow, do they charge for them!!!!

Happy to love my purebreds, and agree with the sentiment that I like knowing the reassurance of what I am getting, not the great unknown.

[Esky the husky]

I want to know what I'm buying.

I want a puppy because it's a fresh slate.

OH won't let me take on any rescues either, because we don't want the problems that can come with them.

I do support rescues in other ways, but I don't think I could ever see us owning one.

[raineth]

Raiineth - go and check out Pethaven facebook page - you will find so much purebred hatred over there it is frightening, and anyone even poking up their head asking about buying from a breeder is hearily condened (and yet when this "rescue" group gets their hands on any purebreds through rescue, wow, do they charge for them!!!!

Happy to love my purebreds, and agree with the sentiment that I like knowing the reassurance of what I am getting, not the great unknown.

That's awful! I can't stand that sort of mob mentality either

I'll take your word for it, there's no way I want to check it out myself.

But at the same time it makes me think that the people doing this are a crazy minority in rescue, rather than the majority.

I personally don't think anyone should be treated like that even if they've bought from a petshop or byb.

for myself personally, I honestly don't know if I have the confidence to ever get a pedigree puppy again. My one and only pedigree dog suffered from a whole host of problems, temperamental and healthwise, and died at a very young age even though I spent a lot of time selecting a respected breeder. It was so traumatising that I just don't know if I can do it again. I'm not saying that's rational, it is definitely an emotional response but I can't really help it. I have had really good experiences with my rescue dogs and so I think I'll stick with that :)

[Kavik]

Two organisations I follow on Facebook (one rescue, one herding) post updates, photos and videos suggesting that buying from a breeder means a pound dog dies and the comments always get lots of likes from other people following them. They don't otherwise appear to be 'radical' groups.

I have both purebred and rescue dogs. I have had temperament issues with my rescue, only just coming around to the idea of another if the right young adult dog comes up (did recently see a pound photo that made me consider him ), have had health problems with the purebred but unpapered dog. So will either be registered purebred puppy or the right young adult rescue, depending on what is around and whether I feel up to retraining a young adult or start fresh with a pup. My breed of choice is overrepresented in pounds and there are a lot of breeders to choose from as well! Makes the choice very complicated and difficult!

[Alkhe]

Before I started posting on dog forums, I would never have known that snobbery toward purebred owners even existed. I accept that some rescues may have facebook pages and fans etc that promote messages like every purebred means the death of a shelter dog, but I don’t think this is as widespread as those facebooks would have you believe.

But to be honest, I think discussions like this can degenerate into a bit of a straw man – it feels like a division is being created and reinforced where it doesn’t necessarily exist, or exist to the degree that it appears. It’s the same as people talking about The Left and The Right and some huge conspiracy, when really.. we’re all just people. People who think or act a different way to you doesn’t imply that they’re a coordinated group of people acting in concert against you.

I have a purebred, and grew up with purebreds by accident, and also then some BYBs – none were more or less loved or cared about by virtue of their breeding or source.

I do get annoyed sometimes when I see people with crossbred pups but it’s usually when the owners are clueless and you can just see trouble down the road with the breeds they’ve got, without really thinking about it. They’re the kind of dthoughtless spur of the moment decisions that are problematic. And that’s not to say that people don’t make mindless decisions to get x kind of purebred either, or that some breeders couldn’t give a rat’s where their dogs end up.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Alkhe

[Dogsfevr]

There was a rescue group here that still exist but not sure of there policies anymore that wouldn't work with any breed club because they would profit from the dog .

They would prefer these dogs to sit for months on end in there shelter & that requires money spent on them than work with a breed club that could easily rehome to people experienced with the breed .

This same group also refuses more homes than not for stupid reasons

If you don't earn enough,if you work to many hrs Yep how bloody stupid is that

We have sold puppies to people refused by this org who are the most wonderful owners.

I visit a person with my dogs who was also refused & works from home because heaven forbid the Kelpie x they would be interested in would spend many hours outside with them with the horses.

I fondly remember one breed a Italian Spinone that was spayed living for many years in this place all because they wouldn't work with the breeder east who was happy to pay for the dog to be flown home & homed at that stage with someone who already had the breed

Here it does seem pure breed snobbery does work & some groups go on this elitist band wagon that they are the be all & end all & forget about the actual dog in need & that if everyone worked together the dog benefits the most which is the most important factor

[Diva]

Snobs are everywhere, and some of the snobbiest just follow whatever seems to be the cool thing to do at any point in time, whether it's oodles, or teacups, or rescue crosses or rescue pures, or whatever. Right now it's not cool to have a pure breed, so the snobs aren't drawn to purchasing them - except the sub-class of self-identified snobs we have posting in this thread :laugh:

.....

Good post ssm, I agree wholeheartedly with all of it.

I am only interested in owning a handful of breeds ever. And no cross-breeds. Name calling won't change that. I am not one for bandwagons.

I don't dispute that very dog deserves a chance at life - but other people's bad breeding decisions and ownership failures do not dictate what dogs I share my life with, anymore than I let the very unfair situation of homeless people in our society dictate where I live or who I live with.

I invest a lot of time, money and emotion in my dogs. No apologies for going for what suits me best, and it is a pure bred puppy.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Diva