mini girl Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Have a very large litter as already put on another thread and so far so good with my girl feeding and caring for the pups - all 10 miniature poodles. They are now 11 days old - well today one of my other girls got in with the pups - and when I found her the pups mother was inside the crate but down the far end just watching while the other girl had some of the pups actually on her nipples. The puppies mother has always been submissive to this girl and I don't want my mother dog upset in any way - the invading girl did not seem to want to hurt the pups in any way but now its got me a bit on edge - all our dogs live in the house and this has never happened to me before. The invading girl has had pups herself before and was an excellend mother and she has been very interested in the pups since born - wanted to sniff them etc when they were taken out of the pen and put in a basket while cleaning the pen or weighing the pups. We took her away and have tried to separate them but its not all that easy - has anyone else had this happen and is it a problem - one breeder friend told me she had a girl who actually went to another girls litter and killed some pups. The invader (for want of a better word) has been a bit sooky since the pups came along I think she feels a little left out but we have tried to give her lots of attention - but with the mother and 10 pups naturally they are getting more attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) Our older bitch who is great mates with the younger was very excited when Crystal had her pup last year and came into the room and seemed intent to get to the pup. Fortunately we put a pen around the whelping box so it is a barrier just in case. Her body language did not fill me with confidence as she seemed to have that overly fast tail wag and stiff body. After a few more day and a couple more supervised visits she seemed to relax more, but it did occur to me that she may have either killed the pup or upset the new mother enough to distrupt her bonding. We have three gates between the whelping box and main living area as extra protection. Once the pup was up and running she received heaps of attention from the baby and she seemed happy about it. Edited May 8, 2012 by LizT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadbury Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 :) I have had this happen with Cavaliers with no problems at all. The Aunties hopped in and shared the cleaning of pups BUT there was no distress to Mum at all. I must add that the Aunties and the Mum shared the whelping box during the delivery and they cleaned the pups in turn. Your situation might be a little different with 10 pups but as long as you supervise Mum and make sure she is not too stressed I would say that Aunty Poodle is just clucky and trying to help Mum out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freundhund Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 I have always had all my dogs and bitches in the house, including during whelping. I have been lucky in the fact that I have found my bitches who have had puppies before tend to want to help, mum normally hasn't been to worried. I find I just end up with 2 bitches in the whelping box, one of my bitches used to come into milk as well so she would feed the puppies and I would end up having to dry up 2 bitches I would personally supervise your 2 girls and if mum can cope with auntie helping I would let auntie help. After all dogs are pack animals and in the wild some animals do have aunties that help the mums along. Wishing you all the best with your litter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 I've often had a "Nanny" amongst my girls. Provided nobody gets upset or hurt, I really don't see any problem with it all. Quite often an older bitch is a better role model for puppies anyway. Some years ago now, I had an American Cocker bitch who really was a princess. When she had her litter, she used to feed them and then get out of the box and HER mother would then hop in and take over the cleaning and playing. Worked really well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Unless mum really & obviously welcomes the other dog I would completely seperate at this age. My dogs & cats go into isolation away from other animals with their babies for the first couple of weeks. They hate having to be on guard, its less risk of any infection & less stress. Sometimes I keep a litter in the lounge but keep the other animals out, sometimes it may be in another room, it is manageable. I think they need to bond with their babies in peace & I don't want anything to upset them in any way. Some dogs are fine with this but many are not, mine are fiercely protective even though they are all friends other times. If you are not sure don't allow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Family affair here from the big & small. Never had any issues plus our mums still run with the pack during time out anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretel Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 I do know of a bitch who got in to the whelping box and killed the pups of another girl. I would not take a risk. My girls are kept well away from the others so that they don't have to feel at all stressed if they don't want the others around. Once the pups are up and about they get supervised visits :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 The "invader" did get into the box again and didn't want to get out - the mother didn't seem really stressed or anything but she is scared at times of this dog as she is dominant over her - I picked the mother up and put her in with the pups and the "invader" and the "invader" gave a little snap at the mother - nothing really to worry about but it did set my alarm bells ringing and so we took her out and would not let her back near the pups again even though she wanted to - rang a friend who loves "the invader" and she took her tonight as we had to go out for a couple of hours - all seems fine with mum and her puppies - so when "the invader" comes home will keep her well away till the pups are a bit older. I miss "the invader" so much tonight though and feel sort of guilty that she has been farmed out for a night but better to take no chances. Hope you don't think me awful calling her "the invader" but want to make this post clear on just who is who. Love them all and want to give this litter every chance to go well. They will be 12 days tomorrow - will be so glad when they are old enough to feed - will start with divetelact and farex at 3 weeks to help mum out. All are quite plump pups and mum is eating and drinking well - a lovely litter but 10 was just a big litter for my little girl. My biggest worry was not that "the invader" would harm the pups but that she would try and claim them for herself and try and keep their mother away from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saffioraire Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Seems like you need a Don't be so hard on yourself, mum and you sound like your doing a great job. IMHO I don't think anyone would judge you for "farming out" an unwelcome surrogate to a place where she is incredibly loved and welcome! I'm tipping she's not judging you whilst curled up on someone else's bed hoging all the cuddles In our 'times of need' dogs who may cause an interference go to our farm property where my MIL lives. I always feel so guilty until I get there and they have gained 10kgs over night, are covered in mud and not too interested in coming home ROFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 Seems like you need a Don't be so hard on yourself, mum and you sound like your doing a great job. IMHO I don't think anyone would judge you for "farming out" an unwelcome surrogate to a place where she is incredibly loved and welcome! I'm tipping she's not judging you whilst curled up on someone else's bed hoging all the cuddles In our 'times of need' dogs who may cause an interference go to our farm property where my MIL lives. I always feel so guilty until I get there and they have gained 10kgs over night, are covered in mud and not too interested in coming home ROFL Thanks for your kind words - I needed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missymoo Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 My Brittany bitch used to com in and check out family...then one day she she decided to kill...one died before I could get her out...now we play it safe and a crate covers my whelping area. See, but no touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Danni Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Dont risk your precious pups, keep the "invader" out of the box with an x-pen around it. She can look at and hear the pups but cant hurt them, even by accident. Your Mum will also feel happier I'm sure. In a few weeks, when the pups are out and about, the "invader' might be a good nanny/baby sitter if she is trustworthy, but right now, she isn't needed and may be disruptive. Let Mum enjoy her time with her babies, it's only a few short weeks and then they'll be gone. We have GSDs, they all live in the house and the pups are born and raised in our home, but they are protected from the adult dogs, who we allow to see and sniff the pups one at a time under very close supervision while Mum is outside having a loo break. I'm not worried that our adults would intentionally hurt our babies, far from it, but they are very tiny and accidents happen in a heart beat. At 3 weeks, the pups join the family in the loungeroom to watch TV at night, but they are still seperated by a physical barrier from the adults (also because the adults steal their toys!). Their first nanny is, in fact, one of our adult males, who is incredibly careful and tolerant with babies. He watches over them outside and is penned with them when they eventually move out of the house during the day at 6 weeks. But I'd never let him in the box with 11 day old babies, he'd walk all over them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I think you know your own girls and how they get along normally. My lot I keep together, pups are in a puppy pen or crate so they can be covered over in the early days. Once in the pen the older girls will go in for a visit (2 of them now have the knack to open the gate on the pen!). The adults are all very respectful, have a look and see pups are OK then leave mum to it. I have had one litter where a girl was having a phantom, so at weaning time when I was keeping mum out for a couple of hours, the other girl would jump into the pen and feed the pups instead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 My invader is back home came back this morning - seems she did fret a good bit of last night - she was so intent on getting in with the pups this morning that we let her for a while but it became apparent she wanted to take over from mum so we have become quite firm with her and she is not allowed in any more - we shut the door while we are not in that room (they are in the room we watch tv in at present) and when we were in there kept her away from the pen. She seems to be settling down - took her for a nice long walk to get her mind off it all and she is very obedient especialy with my husband so she is learning that the other girls pups are not for her. Feel sorry for her though she loves being a mum and was so gentle to the pups but wanted to take over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Photo of mum & 10 poodle babies please :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 All going well - and mum and babies going great - my sweet invader is only allowed very limited supervised visits which seems to be ok with everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blakbelgian Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I have heard of a mother & daughter Schipperke having pups around the same age and both mothers took turns looking after both sets of babies (I think there were 6 pups) so the breeder put both litters together in a whelping box and let both mothers mix when ever they wanted too. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I have heard of a mother & daughter Schipperke having pups around the same age and both mothers took turns looking after both sets of babies (I think there were 6 pups) so the breeder put both litters together in a whelping box and let both mothers mix when ever they wanted too. BB If you truly know your dogs, and the breed is of a temperament to enable this then why not? A calculated risk but with both bitches being mums I doubt there would be a take over or jealousy involved. Wonderful socialisation happening there. I remember seeing the same situation occur in a pack of Cape Hunting Dogs in a documentary I watched once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted May 13, 2012 Author Share Posted May 13, 2012 Pups were 2 weeks on Friday my mother dog is feeding them well and they are all getting quite plumb little things all 10 My mother is very tired a lot and when she gets out of the box just lays down to sleep. She is eating well and I am giving her divetelact drinks several times a day as well as puppy food mixed with raw meat, cheese , chicken necks, cottage cheese, 2 doses of calcium a day plus a little nutrigel. My other girl is wanting to be constantly be in with the pups and we are letting her do this as she cleans them up and it's a little less on the mother, mum seems happy to lay around after she feeds them and rest, I guess 10 pups is taking its toll, she is not panting or wobbly on her legs just seems so lethargic , mind you she perks up if she thinks she can get out for a walk or go in the car not that we let her . We take the other dog upstairs at night and leave mum with the pups. When the other dog is in with the pups the try to suckle but there doesn't seem to be any milk. I will be so glad to get them on meals to take a bit of pressure of mum. Give the pups a little divetelact from a dropper but the don't seem too interested they never cry so are obviously not hungry or cold. Doing my best so hope all continues ok and my mother dog will be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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