American Johnson Bulldog

[dogsaremyworld]

As far as I know this is a recognized breed but not in Australia.

Mistress Google tells me that the breed is recognized by the NKC, UKC, ABRA and the American Bulldog Association (ABA) and the SACBR (South Africa)

They are a magnificent dog.

So none of the internationally recognised registries. Anyone can set up and call themselves a registry but if it is not recognised by the KC, AKC, ANKC and FCI, it doesn't mean anything.

Agreed, only recognised by 'made up' registries. This is where people get manipulated by confusion

[yarracully]

It seems to me their "breed council" doesn't care about the parents until the litter is born. If they are truly concerned about their breed wouldn't they want to check up on the parents health etc before the breeding.

I agree that one would think ethical breeders research the health of parents before breeding, but what does our own ANKC do in regards to being concerned about parent health prior to litters being dropped (or for that matter, afterwards) ??

Genuine question.

True enough although there is a code of ethics which, if adhered to by all breeders, means that dogs with health problems are not to be bred and a breeder is not allowed to sell or transfer any such dog.

Admittedly not all ANKC breeders do abide by this. However I for one am able to say that I health test all my dogs for all known breed issues prior to any breeding and I will not sell of transfer any dog that is not in perfect health.

This standard is what most would expect from a "breeder". As such there are procedures in place should a CC member breach this code. I can recall one state council in its monthly journal would publish any offences and imposed punishment for breach of these ethics, so some state canine councils are concerned. However it should also be noted that the state organisations cant act if they aren't informed.

My point though is there doesn't appear to be any such ethics in place for this particular breed or its "breed council". From the research I have been doing on this it seems the "National Breed Council" was setup by one person. Although there is very limited information on this council.

However you would have to agree that the ANKC is working to improve the health of the breeds it controls generally. Hence the change in many breed standards being undertaken. Yet this particular breed does not seem to have this same direction of breed betterment.

I have always had an issue with unofficial registries and false claims made with regard to either breeds or bloodlines. When a claim is made of "pedigree papers" or "champion bloodlines"(as in the ad in our paper) most members of the public would expect the breeder to be held to a certain standard yet this is not always the case. I'm not against this "breed" its the whole "invented registry" and "Homemade pedigree papers" that I am against both in this instance and also the designer dog area. Along with the misrepresentation to the public which only serves to confuse the public and in turn has a bad effect on the ethical breeders.

[Ozstar]

There was an add in our local Sunday newspaper stated that they had a show coming up (either tomorrow or next weekend) with an international judge. Would be interesting to have a look at.

Also if the judge deemed your dog to fit the standard you could get pedigree papers for your dog at the show.

Aussie Bulldogs could also enter the show.

Leanne

[Crisovar]

In reality a pedigree is simply a record of lineage, so homemade pedigree or not it is still a pedigree. Whether we who are involved in ANKC breeds agree or not ANKC means nothing if you do not intend to be involved with it. There have always been and will always continue to be breeds that do not wish to have recognition with ANKC or FCI, that fact doesn't make them made up or misrepresenting, it is purely different to how WE do things. My way or the highway seems to be the attitude with the dog world.

[Blackdogs]

In reality a pedigree is simply a record of lineage, so homemade pedigree or not it is still a pedigree. Whether we who are involved in ANKC breeds agree or not ANKC means nothing if you do not intend to be involved with it. There have always been and will always continue to be breeds that do not wish to have recognition with ANKC or FCI, that fact doesn't make them made up or misrepresenting, it is purely different to how WE do things. My way or the highway seems to be the attitude with the dog world.

Very well said.

[Kustali]

They are a gorgeous breed of dog, yes they may not recognized by the ANKC but they are a breed and have their own registry. The breed has been around a very long time.

My tip, do your research thoroughly on the breed, the lines and the registries. It's quite interesting really.

[Dame Aussie]

In reality a pedigree is simply a record of lineage, so homemade pedigree or not it is still a pedigree. Whether we who are involved in ANKC breeds agree or not ANKC means nothing if you do not intend to be involved with it. There have always been and will always continue to be breeds that do not wish to have recognition with ANKC or FCI, that fact doesn't make them made up or misrepresenting, it is purely different to how WE do things. My way or the highway seems to be the attitude with the dog world.

Very well said.

Yes, totally agree with this.

[Staffyluv]

They are a gorgeous breed of dog, yes they may not recognized by the ANKC but they are a breed and have their own registry. The breed has been around a very long time.

My tip, do your research thoroughly on the breed, the lines and the registries. It's quite interesting really.

Itis not for me, they were advertised on a Facebook page... As registered and pedigree dogs. I wasn't sure that the ergo was ANKC or not... I was just curious.

Sadly it is all the usual tough guy types responding to the ad so far..

They are very cute babies but I am a Stanford convert through and through... :)

[yarracully]

Also if the judge deemed your dog to fit the standard you could get pedigree papers for your dog at the show.

Aussie Bulldogs could also enter the show.

Interesting. They are going to determine lineage for your dog on the day of a show. Obviously a lot of research into your dogs parents is going to occur there.

I wonder how many might match the standard but are not actually pure.

There have always been and will always continue to be breeds that do not wish to have recognition with ANKC or FCI, that fact doesn't make them made up or misrepresenting, it is purely different to how WE do things

Yes and I could make my own registry for three legged dogs and can provide pedigree papers. This doesn't automatically mean that two of my new breed will produce three legged pups. As such even though there is a registry and pedigree papers provided doesn't mean they are a pure breed. At least with ANKC or FCI registries there is a governing body to ensure the registry is maintained to a certain standard. As such the pedigree papers issued via these bodies means the dog must be pure as its parents must also be pure and so forth throughout the dogs lineage.

If pedigree papers are issued "on the day" providing your dog meets the standard according to one individual, then there really isn't a guarantee about the purity of the dog.

This approach only serves to further confuse members of the public as to what actually constitutes a pure breed and pedigree papers, but then isnt that what the breeders of designer dogs have been trying to do - confuse the uninformed so they will believe whatever you want them to believe.

[Blackdogs]

Also if the judge deemed your dog to fit the standard you could get pedigree papers for your dog at the show.

Aussie Bulldogs could also enter the show.

Interesting. They are going to determine lineage for your dog on the day of a show. Obviously a lot of research into your dogs parents is going to occur there.

I wonder how many might match the standard but are not actually pure.

There have always been and will always continue to be breeds that do not wish to have recognition with ANKC or FCI, that fact doesn't make them made up or misrepresenting, it is purely different to how WE do things

Yes and I could make my own registry for three legged dogs and can provide pedigree papers. This doesn't automatically mean that two of my new breed will produce three legged pups. As such even though there is a registry and pedigree papers provided doesn't mean they are a pure breed. At least with ANKC or FCI registries there is a governing body to ensure the registry is maintained to a certain standard. As such the pedigree papers issued via these bodies means the dog must be pure as its parents must also be pure and so forth throughout the dogs lineage.

If pedigree papers are issued "on the day" providing your dog meets the standard according to one individual, then there really isn't a guarantee about the purity of the dog.

This approach only serves to further confuse members of the public as to what actually constitutes a pure breed and pedigree papers, but then isnt that what the breeders of designer dogs have been trying to do - confuse the uninformed so they will believe whatever you want them to believe.

The American Bulldog isn't a designer dog. They have bred true for a very long time and are recognised in other countries. All registries can be criticised including the ANKC. It doesn't mean that ANKC breeds are substandard.

[laneka]

We have one living next door, a very sweet boy but gives me the impression of not being too bright.

[yarracully]

Also if the judge deemed your dog to fit the standard you could get pedigree papers for your dog at the show.

Aussie Bulldogs could also enter the show.

Interesting. They are going to determine lineage for your dog on the day of a show. Obviously a lot of research into your dogs parents is going to occur there.

I wonder how many might match the standard but are not actually pure.

There have always been and will always continue to be breeds that do not wish to have recognition with ANKC or FCI, that fact doesn't make them made up or misrepresenting, it is purely different to how WE do things

Yes and I could make my own registry for three legged dogs and can provide pedigree papers. This doesn't automatically mean that two of my new breed will produce three legged pups. As such even though there is a registry and pedigree papers provided doesn't mean they are a pure breed. At least with ANKC or FCI registries there is a governing body to ensure the registry is maintained to a certain standard. As such the pedigree papers issued via these bodies means the dog must be pure as its parents must also be pure and so forth throughout the dogs lineage.

If pedigree papers are issued "on the day" providing your dog meets the standard according to one individual, then there really isn't a guarantee about the purity of the dog.

This approach only serves to further confuse members of the public as to what actually constitutes a pure breed and pedigree papers, but then isnt that what the breeders of designer dogs have been trying to do - confuse the uninformed so they will believe whatever you want them to believe.

The American Bulldog isn't a designer dog. They have bred true for a very long time and are recognised in other countries. All registries can be criticised including the ANKC. It doesn't mean that ANKC breeds are substandard.

I never said they were a designer dog but the registry system is much the same as the one set up by certain labradoodle breeders. Create their own registry and pedigree papers and rip off and mislead the unsuspecting public.

Which of these other countries have the American Johnson Bulldog on an international register, such as one recognised by the FCI.

Yes all registries could be criticised including the ANKC. But at least the ANKC is recognised by the FCI which makes it a registry accepted internationally. The AJB registry is not such a registry. Although it may be accepted by some registries, none of these are international registries either. Some of the registries I seen that accepts them is the American Pet Registry, Dog Registry of America, and American Canine Registry, none of which is a guarantee of breed purity. In fact one registry they are recognised by is the Animal Research Foundation which gives recognition to(of all things) Designer Dogs.

So if you were to get one of these how do you know you got a purebreed that you paid for.At least with a dog registered with an FCI registry there is a documented history to prove breed purity.

How realistic can a registry be if they will issue pedigree papers based on the opinion of one individual without proof of breed purity. Furthermore they will do this at one of their events which means they don't research to verify the purity of your dog.The dog only has to meet the standard, which means if it looks like one then it must be pure breed.

Using this concept I could walk down the street and pick out any dog I see and determine it to be purebreed without any knowledge of its parents or proof of bloodline. At least with the ANKC and other FCI registries there must be documented history to prove purity of breed.

The fact is by saying they are pure breed and come with pedigree papers (or champion bloodlines, as some are advertising)there really is nothing to back this up. So although you may spend a lot of money buying one ( I've seen prices around $1600.00)and are lead to believe it is purebreed, there really is no guarantee that your dog has not been the result of a cross breed mating and you payed a lot of money for it.

At least by the very process of ANKC and other FCI recognised registries there is automatic proof of breed purity. Now while I don't have an issue with this breed or its followers I do have an issue with a system that will boast breed purity yet the very same system doesn't appear to have the structure or integrity to reinforce such a claim.

Edited May 6, 2012 by yarracully

[Crisovar]

If pedigree papers are issued "on the day" providing your dog meets the standard according to one individual, then there really isn't a guarantee about the purity of the dog.

We did pretty much the same thing with Stumpy Tail they were assessed then allowed on the register.

[Dame Aussie]

Also if the judge deemed your dog to fit the standard you could get pedigree papers for your dog at the show.

Aussie Bulldogs could also enter the show.

Interesting. They are going to determine lineage for your dog on the day of a show. Obviously a lot of research into your dogs parents is going to occur there.

I wonder how many might match the standard but are not actually pure.

There have always been and will always continue to be breeds that do not wish to have recognition with ANKC or FCI, that fact doesn't make them made up or misrepresenting, it is purely different to how WE do things

Yes and I could make my own registry for three legged dogs and can provide pedigree papers. This doesn't automatically mean that two of my new breed will produce three legged pups. As such even though there is a registry and pedigree papers provided doesn't mean they are a pure breed. At least with ANKC or FCI registries there is a governing body to ensure the registry is maintained to a certain standard. As such the pedigree papers issued via these bodies means the dog must be pure as its parents must also be pure and so forth throughout the dogs lineage.

If pedigree papers are issued "on the day" providing your dog meets the standard according to one individual, then there really isn't a guarantee about the purity of the dog.

This approach only serves to further confuse members of the public as to what actually constitutes a pure breed and pedigree papers, but then isnt that what the breeders of designer dogs have been trying to do - confuse the uninformed so they will believe whatever you want them to believe.

The American Bulldog isn't a designer dog. They have bred true for a very long time and are recognised in other countries. All registries can be criticised including the ANKC. It doesn't mean that ANKC breeds are substandard.

[Nekhbet]

american bulldogs are not FCI recognised, be they Johnson or Scott

Johnson have the more 'bulldog' type head whereas the Scott have a squarer muzzle, more a 'standard' type.

[Steve]

there is an ad in our local paper for this breed. Advertiser is about 300k's away though. But they advertise them as being "Champion bloodlines" I am wondering how they can say that with honesty when the breed can't be shown in Aust.

Still someone will read it and believe it, mores the pity.

They can and are shown in Australia - its just the shows arent affiliated with the ANKC - same as mini foxies and many other breeds which arent recognised by the ANKC run shows most week ends but are not affiliated with the ANKC.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Steve

[Steve]

Yarracully, such disappointing information

Not sure why - its just different to what we are used to - its not so different to many other registries. No code of conduct for members and allowing them to breed how ever they want is also common including the AKC. Just because the ANKC do it one way doesnt mean its the only way.

[Steve]

Also if the judge deemed your dog to fit the standard you could get pedigree papers for your dog at the show.

Aussie Bulldogs could also enter the show.

Interesting. They are going to determine lineage for your dog on the day of a show. Obviously a lot of research into your dogs parents is going to occur there.

I wonder how many might match the standard but are not actually pure.

There have always been and will always continue to be breeds that do not wish to have recognition with ANKC or FCI, that fact doesn't make them made up or misrepresenting, it is purely different to how WE do things

Yes and I could make my own registry for three legged dogs and can provide pedigree papers. This doesn't automatically mean that two of my new breed will produce three legged pups. As such even though there is a registry and pedigree papers provided doesn't mean they are a pure breed. At least with ANKC or FCI registries there is a governing body to ensure the registry is maintained to a certain standard. As such the pedigree papers issued via these bodies means the dog must be pure as its parents must also be pure and so forth throughout the dogs lineage.

If pedigree papers are issued "on the day" providing your dog meets the standard according to one individual, then there really isn't a guarantee about the purity of the dog.

This approach only serves to further confuse members of the public as to what actually constitutes a pure breed and pedigree papers, but then isnt that what the breeders of designer dogs have been trying to do - confuse the uninformed so they will believe whatever you want them to believe.

So why is this so different to what is happening in the UK where dogs are accepted into the stud registry based on a photo - its time we looked outside the square - just because something is done one way for ANKC recognised breeds doesn't mean its the only way it can be done or should be done . If they still have an open stud book what they are doing is common and perfectly normal outside of the ANKC.

[Steve]

Also if the ANKC were to open stud books for any breed - and there is lots of pressure on them to do so this is what would happen.

The dogs being assessed without pedigree are given a pedigree which places them on as an F1 or similar and then they breed through to F4 or similar and are counted purebred.

Many breeds dont want to be recognised by the FCI and due to the fact that there have been deals cut and have been in place for 100 or so years where registries agree to only accept one registry per country any one other than those who are there now couldnt be recognised anyway.This was done to stop one country registering dogs in anyone else's back yard - all FCI recognition means is the registry was first in with the FCI and they only recognise all breeds registries.

The good news is a new all breeds registry can accept bloodlines from any registry ,have dual registry acceptances etc and not just those where deals have been cut which gives them access to a bigger and healthier gene pool world wide .

Edited May 7, 2012 by Steve

[BJean]

Some posters either genuinely do not know about FCI operations, or they have their heads up their a&ses when it comes to the FCI.

Many breeds dont want to be recognised by the FCI and due to the fact that there have been deals cut and have been in place for 100 or so years where registries agree to only accept one registry per country any one other than those who are there now couldnt be recognised anyway. This was done to stop one country registering dogs in anyone else's back yard - all FCI recognition means is the registry was first in with the FCI and they only recognise all breeds registries.

Yep Kazakh are out - they could not work under FCIs conditions

and Turkey - well anyone who thinks *FCI* means anything, go have a look at how KIF is being developed (bodged) and the politics at play.

FCI association = "we had lunch with the FCI board first"

seriously.

Edited May 7, 2012 by lilli