**Super_Dogs** Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 A family member put a large deposit (33%) for a puppy. At the puppy's 6 week health check last week the vet detected a 2/6 heart murmur. What makes it worse is the breeder wants final payment this week - 1 week before they pick up the puppy. They spoke to the breeder about waiting until the puppy has the all clear before they pay and take puppy but she did not agree to this. They have therefore decided that they do not want to take the puppy and have requested a refund. The breeder has refused. Her terms and conditions hidden on The website in a place you would not look state the deposit is non-refundable or refundable at their discretion. I cannot understand how she can refuse to refund when the puppy has a heart murmur. This is not what they put the deposit on! Any advice of next steps they could take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 It seems a bit crap, but if it was there in the fine print I don't know that they could really do anything? Hopefully I'm wrong though, what a disappointment for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Are they ANKC registered breeders ?. If they are I would put it in writing to their states controlling body as a complaint. Breeders like this we do not need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
**Super_Dogs** Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 Are they ANKC registered breeders ?. If they are I would put it in writing to their states controlling body as a complaint. Breeders like this we do not need. Yes they are. I also suggested they do this. What is worse the breeder has been telling them this is no problem and will go away (which I know it could but you would not knowingly take this risk). The breeder keeps saying this is not a heart disease, it is a murmur. The breeder even emailed a document to her about it which clearly they wrote as it says a heart murmur in 6-8 week old puppies is normal. You don't need to be a vet to know a heart murmur is not normal! They also admitted to having puppy with a 3/6 heart murmur from another litter and said that it will be good for a pet home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caesars mum Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 They may want to check the legalities with the state office of fair trading. Have to agree with oakway we don't need this sort of rubbish from registered breeders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I'd be backing away from this breeder and contacting the state controlling body about them. The admission of a grade 3 murmur in another litter says (to me) that the breeder may not have the health of their breeding stock as their highest priority... as does the insistence of full payment long before you get the pup even after being told that it has a grade 2 murmur at this young age. Sure, the grade 2 murmur may clear up on it's own by the time the pup is around 5 months old - but where do you stand if it doesn't, and you knew of the issue prior to taking the pup home? You could try using small claims court to get your deposit back if all else fails. Personally I wouldn't take any pup from this particular breeder - go find a fully healthy pup elsewhere... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsaremyworld Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Contact the kennel control, but in most cases they will not get involved in personal disputes, but still let the state controllng body aware of the breeder. If, all further claims to the deposit are refused, all you can do is NAME AND SHAME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trinabean Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I'd be backing away from this breeder and contacting the state controlling body about them. The admission of a grade 3 murmur in another litter says (to me) that the breeder may not have the health of their breeding stock as their highest priority... as does the insistence of full payment long before you get the pup even after being told that it has a grade 2 murmur at this young age. Sure, the grade 2 murmur may clear up on it's own by the time the pup is around 5 months old - but where do you stand if it doesn't, and you knew of the issue prior to taking the pup home? You could try using small claims court to get your deposit back if all else fails. Personally I wouldn't take any pup from this particular breeder - go find a fully healthy pup elsewhere... T. Yes, and no pet insurer will cover them for what will be deemed a "pre-existing condition." I agree, don't take a pup from this breeder. They could be in for a lot of heartbreak if they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I don't agree with the behaviour, and leaving the concerns of health aside, a great many deposits in the buying and selling world are non refundable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I would be one of the first to say that this may just go away with time, but the first thing you do is offer back the deposit. Then advise the purchasers that you will contact them if they still want to be advised if the condition clears. I personally would be asking the purchasers to speak to my vet if they were still interested and be advised by the vet. By with-holding the deposit it gives honest caring breeders a bad name and that reflects on all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
**Super_Dogs** Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 I am glad to hear others thing what the breeder is doing is wrong. I certainly do! The fact that she would not hold only to the puppy until the condition is cleared I think speaks volumes. I would have thought this is what any responsible breeder would do! I understand deposits can be non refundable, however I did not think this was the case if it is not as per the original agreement being a healthy puppy. For example if you put a deposit on the car and in that time they dinged it, they would have to fix it or give the money back. as you can't fix thins health condition this only leaves one option. I have told them even of they get the deposit back they still need to report it to dogs qld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I am glad to hear others thing what the breeder is doing is wrong. I certainly do! The fact that she would not hold only to the puppy until the condition is cleared I think speaks volumes. I would have thought this is what any responsible breeder would do! I understand deposits can be non refundable, however I did not think this was the case if it is not as per the original agreement being a healthy puppy. For example if you put a deposit on the car and in that time they dinged it, they would have to fix it or give the money back. as you can't fix thins health condition this only leaves one option. I have told them even of they get the deposit back they still need to report it to dogs qld. At this stage I would consider the pup defective and act accordingly and so would most caring breeders. For goodness sake it is hard enough to sell puppies in this economic climate let alone antagonise a purchaser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I doubt the controlling body will do anything. They generally do not get involved in civil matters. The purchaser should contact the Dept of Fair Trading for advice before they take any further action, including taking the puppy. The breeder is being an idiot in my opinion. They obviously haven't heard of Greyshaft. There are laws about selling defective goods (and in legal terms, despite being a living thing, a puppy is still "goods"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I doubt the controlling body will do anything. They generally do not get involved in civil matters. The purchaser should contact the Dept of Fair Trading for advice before they take any further action, including taking the puppy. The breeder is being an idiot in my opinion. They obviously haven't heard of Greyshaft. There are laws about selling defective goods (and in legal terms, despite being a living thing, a puppy is still "goods"). I do agree that the controlling body will be able to do little but at least they will have in writing an official complaint. They may in time question the breeder if sufficiant complants are laid. It has happened, so I was informed the other day. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
**Super_Dogs** Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) I doubt the controlling body will do anything. They generally do not get involved in civil matters. The purchaser should contact the Dept of Fair Trading for advice before they take any further action, including taking the puppy. The breeder is being an idiot in my opinion. They obviously haven't heard of Greyshaft. There are laws about selling defective goods (and in legal terms, despite being a living thing, a puppy is still "goods"). . I do agree that the controlling body will be able to do little but at least they will have in writing an official complaint. They may in time question the breeder if sufficiant complants are laid. It has happened, so I was informed the other day. :) ellz I totally agree. They even emailed the breeder reference to these, with the link, but still refused to refund the deposit. They are going to call the office of fair trading tomorrow to get some advice Thanks oakway. Good to know. I think this is why people must complain whe breeders are doing the wrong thing. Edited May 3, 2012 by buddy1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsaremyworld Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I am glad to hear others thing what the breeder is doing is wrong. I certainly do! The fact that she would not hold only to the puppy until the condition is cleared I think speaks volumes. I would have thought this is what any responsible breeder would do! I understand deposits can be non refundable, however I did not think this was the case if it is not as per the original agreement being a healthy puppy. For example if you put a deposit on the car and in that time they dinged it, they would have to fix it or give the money back. as you can't fix thins health condition this only leaves one option. I have told them even of they get the deposit back they still need to report it to dogs qld. It is most definately wrong, and behaviour such as this is disgusting, reprehensible, and makes me SOOO angry. It paints all registered breeder's the wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozstar Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Contact the state controlling body as it is against ANKC to sell a sick or not completely healthy pup. Leanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotts4ever Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 A family member put a large deposit (33%) for a puppy. At the puppy's 6 week health check last week the vet detected a 2/6 heart murmur. What makes it worse is the breeder wants final payment this week - 1 week before they pick up the puppy. They spoke to the breeder about waiting until the puppy has the all clear before they pay and take puppy but she did not agree to this. They have therefore decided that they do not want to take the puppy and have requested a refund. The breeder has refused. Her terms and conditions hidden on The website in a place you would not look state the deposit is non-refundable or refundable at their discretion. I cannot understand how she can refuse to refund when the puppy has a heart murmur. This is not what they put the deposit on! Any advice of next steps they could take? I'm sure it would be against their CC's COE to sell knowing of an illness and if the breeder is a member of a breed club they too often have this in their COE. This is taken from Dogs NSW Code of Ethics and I don't think the breeder has any defence because they know of the heart murmur so even if it might clear I guess the purchaser can argue the pup is of ill health so should not be sold or transfered 13. No dog should be sold or transferred in a state of ill health. It is a defence to any complaint against a member for contravention of this Clause if the Member proves that it was not reasonably practicable for the Member to know that the dog was in ill health at the time of sale or transfer. (08/11) Cheers Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Like others, I think the murmur will probably abate - and probably by the 8 week check. But it may not. The fair thing for the breeder to do is refund your deposit, and maybe leave it that you can still buy the pup if it passes the 8 week check. However, at the moment, the pup is not suitable for the purposes intended so by law, they should refund your deposit. If you go to the courhouse, you can take out a plaint against them for under $100. You can do it yourself. It will go to mediation, cost you no more, and if you keep saying you want a healthy dog, and this one was not because it had a heart murmur. I think it is very likely you would win. And receiving the plaint in the mail will often liven up the most recalcitrant!! If you threaten something --- do it!! Your case is that at the time of purchase, the dog was unsound and not suitable for the purposes intended. If you went to buy a toaster, and left a deposit, but when you went to use it, it didn't go you would want a refund of your deposit, or another toaster. Same principle. I don't know what these wretched "breeders" can be thinking. It's all about $$ maybe. and do complain to your state CC. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Issy Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Before I had Kingston I had planned to buy another pup from a breeder. I went to her place and picked one at 6 weeks old and I was waiting until he was old enough to bring him home. In the meantime I got updates on him with pictures and the like every few days. Then a couple weeks later when he got vet checked he was diagnosed with a heart murmur. Now the breeder gave me two options - either I could get a refund or buy the puppy but at a reduced cost. By this time I already felt he was a part of the family and decided to buy him anyway. Unfortunately a week after the diagnosis (we were supposed to pick him up the following weekend) he passed away I was devastated to say the least. My breeder was shocked too and it was just a horrible experience. I got a refund and needless to say did lots of homework before I picked another breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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