Vets Discuss Vaccinations

[cavNrott]

Id rather vaccinate my dog (they get done every 3years only) and take them out and about to training, agility, the beach etc than keep them "safe" in my house only.

I think most of us on here do walk our dogs daily and take them to parks, the beach and generally take them out and about. I haven't seen anyone say they keep their dogs 'safe' in their house only.

[jr_inoz]

What is the opinion on titres? Should we as pet owners be pushing for vets to have these more readily available? I know many pet owners who have never heard of titre testing an before the start of the year I myself was among them. Is this a good way to make an informed decision on weather a dog needs a vaccination?

In SA, the only way to get a titre test done is to have the blood work sent to the US. As far as I know, you can't get titre testing done in a lab in Australia. There are quite a few vets who are happy to send the lab work off though. Cost me the same price as the vaccination to have the titre test. Was happy with that - especially peace of mind. My girl is much better (less allergies) without annual vaccination. Her immunity is the highest level.

[stormie]

What is the opinion on titres? Should we as pet owners be pushing for vets to have these more readily available? I know many pet owners who have never heard of titre testing an before the start of the year I myself was among them. Is this a good way to make an informed decision on weather a dog needs a vaccination?

In SA, the only way to get a titre test done is to have the blood work sent to the US. As far as I know, you can't get titre testing done in a lab in Australia. There are quite a few vets who are happy to send the lab work off though. Cost me the same price as the vaccination to have the titre test. Was happy with that - especially peace of mind. My girl is much better (less allergies) without annual vaccination. Her immunity is the highest level.

All the major path labs in Australia offer Titre Testing and Pfizer now have in-house titre testing.

Our clinic has an account with VetPath in WA, purely for the purpose of Titre Testing.

Just for interests sake, here's an article about Vaccination from the Vet Path Lab Newsletter:

http://www.greatdanerescue.com.au/Docs/vaccination_vinfo.pdf

And here are the latest recommendations (2010) from the Vaccination Guideline Group, which was set up by the WSAVA:

http://www.wsava.org/PDF/Misc/VaccinationGuidelines2010.pdf

[dogsaremyworld]

I completely disagree with annual vaccinations, and have found a vet who will listen to me in my beliefs, but it was a long road. The reason I disagree is to do with the fact that they are unneccesary to protect the animal against diseases due the vaccines immunisation life. I completely agree with the following statements in that article;

“It’s my belief that pet owners are not being informed about recent studies and are just following recommendations.

“Of course, the completely unscientific opinion that vaccines should be given every year is nothing more than a convention adopted decades ago by agreement between veterinarians and vaccine manufacturers, primarily as an excuse to get pets in for annual exams

The author has done a fantastic job with that article, and I thank the person on here who posted it.

However, when it came to another article someone on here referred to, as towards the effects of the vaccines itself and the fact that the distemper article apparently destroys collagen within the dog, I found, as a researcher some red flags when it came to the validity of the information, including;

There is no cause and effect here but the temporal relationship is fairly noteworthy.

That sure would be a heck of a coincidence.

Clearly, more research needs to be done in this area

It seems that in-depth research and analysis are not all that necessary

Statements like this, are trying to link unrelated information to unpublished, and unconfirmed research. I am not saying that the fact that collagen may be destroyed by the vaccine is untrue, it may be, but obviously they have not managed to conclusively prove it. I think damaging the repuatation of the vaccine itself, not just the schedule on which the Vet Societies around the worlds seem to endlessly push is wrong, without conclusive evidence that they are in fact dangerous. This article sort of reminds me of others that people have linked on here linking everything from heart murmurs to HD to early desexing. While I wholeheartedly detest the over-vaccination trend, I still want my animals to be vaccinated against the terrible diseases that are out there. And I don't want things like Rabies in Australia, so I still believe in vaccination, just not OVER-vaccination.

[pebbles]

For my 50+ years with dogs I've never vacc'd past the 12 month booster and never given heartworm meds. never had a problem. I've lived in Melbourne, Gippsland and now the Mallee. Many years ago a Gordon Setter I had experienced a terrible case of vomitting and diarrhoa (sp?). The local Vet immediately said 'Parvo'. Not convinced, I took her to the specialist Vet in Melbourne and it was a nasty stomach bug, forget the name, so I wonder if Parvo is always the correct diagnosis? (sp again? lol).

[Jed]

I thought the AVA protocol for vaccinations was changed from annually to 3 yearly a few years ago.

Heartworm - I don't like the yearly vaccinations, but you can get monthly chewable, and daily from the supermarket, or the chemist. The dog should be on some sort of heartworm preventative.

I don't think those vets were anti vaccine - but I am pro and probably would have missed any nuances like that

[megan_]

Sorry but that is how I interpreted issy's quote. I am against over vaccinating but I see the anit vaccs sentiment as dangerous too. There are people on this forum who don't vaccinate at alll and rely on dilute water to protect their dogs from parovirus.

Id rather vaccinate my dog (they get done every 3years only) and take them out and about to training, agility, the beach etc than keep them "safe" in my house only.

I think most of us on here do walk our dogs daily and take them to parks, the beach and generally take them out and about. I haven't seen anyone say they keep their dogs 'safe' in their house only.

sorry but that is how I interpreted issy's quote

[megan_]

While the AVA recommends every 3 years, the manufacturer doesn't. That means that vets who only do it every three years are prescribing off label I believe. If a dog gets pave on year 2, the vet is exposed. I think the AVA has put vets in an awkward position - they should have lined things up properly.

[tdierikx]

One of my vets told me that the yearly vaccination reminder was more for the purpose of getting the animal in for a general health checkup.

T.

[Crisovar]

While the AVA recommends every 3 years, the manufacturer doesn't. That means that vets who only do it every three years are prescribing off label I believe. If a dog gets pave on year 2, the vet is exposed. I think the AVA has put vets in an awkward position - they should have lined things up properly.

There are Triennial Vaccines available that are registered as such.

[Guest lavendergirl]

I would not vaccinate my 3 year old further if not for the boarding kennel requirements - something I find really annoying. I do give heartworm monthly though and think the kennel cough vaccine is worthwhile.

[oakway]

What is the opinion on titres? Should we as pet owners be pushing for vets to have these more readily available? I know many pet owners who have never heard of titre testing an before the start of the year I myself was among them. Is this a good way to make an informed decision on weather a dog needs a vaccination?

In SA, the only way to get a titre test done is to have the blood work sent to the US. As far as I know, you can't get titre testing done in a lab in Australia. There are quite a few vets who are happy to send the lab work off though. Cost me the same price as the vaccination to have the titre test. Was happy with that - especially peace of mind. My girl is much better (less allergies) without annual vaccination. Her immunity is the highest level.

All the major path labs in Australia offer Titre Testing and Pfizer now have in-house titre testing.

Our clinic has an account with VetPath in WA, purely for the purpose of Titre Testing.

Just for interests sake, here's an article about Vaccination from the Vet Path Lab Newsletter:

http://www.greatdanerescue.com.au/Docs/vaccination_vinfo.pdf

And here are the latest recommendations (2010) from the Vaccination Guideline Group, which was set up by the WSAVA:

http://www.wsava.org/PDF/Misc/VaccinationGuidelines2010.pdf

Hi Stormie,

Has the in house testing been released.

I knew it was was coming but I was not sure when it was to be released.

It is going to make life a lot easier with this available.

[megan_]

While the AVA recommends every 3 years, the manufacturer doesn't. That means that vets who only do it every three years are prescribing off label I believe. If a dog gets pave on year 2, the vet is exposed. I think the AVA has put vets in an awkward position - they should have lined things up properly.

There are Triennial Vaccines available that are registered as such.

But this is a TRIPLE dose. No way in hell I'd let my dogs have that! FWIW, this isn't what the AVA is recommending, they are saying a single dose every three years.

[dancinbcs]

While the AVA recommends every 3 years, the manufacturer doesn't. That means that vets who only do it every three years are prescribing off label I believe. If a dog gets pave on year 2, the vet is exposed. I think the AVA has put vets in an awkward position - they should have lined things up properly.

There are Triennial Vaccines available that are registered as such.

But this is a TRIPLE dose. No way in hell I'd let my dogs have that! FWIW, this isn't what the AVA is recommending, they are saying a single dose every three years.

Yes, they have put the vets in an awkward situation. My vet believes the normal vaccine should be fine for 3 years but cannot actually say it will be. Legally she can only do it with the triennial one but she has never pushed over vaccination. I haven't used C5 in the 17 years I have been going there due to a dog having a bad reaction to it previously and she never questioned that decision. Having also had a very old dog with parvo back in the days when we only did puppy vaccines I would not leave a dog it's whole life with no boosters either. I think 3 yearly with a C3 is a good compromise. The most dangerous of the lot though is the heartworm injection and I will never use that again due to problems with it in my dogs. Back to monthly tablets for us.

As to vaccinosis, I am very sceptical it exists after some Border Collies in the US, that were diagnosed with it, turned out to have the fatal genetic condition, TNS. No other breed has a genetic test for this faulty immune system problem that is common in many species and is highly likely to occur in other dog breeds. My theory is that dogs born with a condition similar to TNS will be the ones that react badly to basic vaccination that healthy dogs can easily cope with.

[stormie]

While the AVA recommends every 3 years, the manufacturer doesn't. That means that vets who only do it every three years are prescribing off label I believe. If a dog gets pave on year 2, the vet is exposed. I think the AVA has put vets in an awkward position - they should have lined things up properly.

There are Triennial Vaccines available that are registered as such.

But this is a TRIPLE dose. No way in hell I'd let my dogs have that! FWIW, this isn't what the AVA is recommending, they are saying a single dose every three years.

It's not a triple dose. It's pretty much the same vaccine as the annuals.

I understand that most of the vaccines available now have longer than annual registration. Off the top of my head I think only one company still insists on annuals. One has an open registration on their vaccines, so the Vet can decide whether they want to use it annually or triennially (maybe even 4 yearly?).

Oakway I believe they are available. I'm not sure how popular they will be though, as I believe there's something with them that means once opened, they have to be used up quite quickly? I can't actually remember off the top of my head, but I'm sure I remember them suggesting we get a group of clients so they're not wasted?

Prise wise I think it worked out similar to if we sent the bloods to the Labs, so for now, our clinic will be sticking with the labs rather than in-house

Edited April 30, 2012 by stormie

[stormie]

This is taken from the WSAVA Guidelines link I posted on page 2, with regards to Vets using vaccines off label...

"There are instances, where the guidelines may recommend a triennial vaccination with a product that still carries a 1 year licensed

DOI. The simple reason for this is that the guidelines are based on current scientific knowledge and thinking, whereas the data

sheet reflects the knowledge available at the time that the vaccine received its original license (which may be more than 20 years

earlier). Consequently, guidelines advice will often differ from that given in the data sheet; however, any veterinarian may use a

vaccine according to guidelines (and therefore current scientific thinking) by obtaining informed (and documented) owner consent

for this deviation from legal recommendations (‘off-label use’). Further confusion is often caused by company representatives who

will advise, as they are legally obliged to do, that the veterinarian must adhere to the data sheet recommendation.

A further point of confusion arises where veterinarians compare the recommendations given in different sets of guidelines. There

are, for example, subtle differences in recommendations made in the USA and Europe that reflect differences in the opinions of

local expert groups and in the perception of lifestyles of pet animals that may make them more or less exposed to infections. The

VGG faces the difficult challenge of setting a middle-course through various national or regional guidelines. Its recommendations

attempt to provide a balanced perspective to account for global differences in the keeping of small companion animals.

In summary, veterinarians should feel comfortable about vaccinating according to the schedules given in these guidelines but

should cross-reference these with local recommendations where available. Where the VGG recommendations differ from current

legal requirements, the practitioner need only obtain informed client consent to provide that client, and the animal, with a current

evidence-based vaccination schedule."