Vets Discuss Vaccinations

[Jed]

Here is a link to Dogs Naturally Magazine, with Catherine O'Driscoll DVM -an American vet. She has asked vets to comment on vaccinations.

Worth a read if you are interested in vaccines and vaccinosis.

Oops, forgot the link!!

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/vets-on-vaccines/

Edited April 28, 2012 by Jed

[cavNrott]

Thanks for that link Jed. It confirmed what I have thought for many years.

My 8yo dog had a reaction to his 16 month booster. He developed explosive diarrhoea within 24 hours of the vaccination. He'd never had it before nor since then. I've not vaccinated him again despite a vet telling me how uneducated I am about vaccinations. This vet stated if all pet owners were as uneducated as I am then we would likely have an outbreak of Parvo and Distemper. This vet is still pushing annual vaccs.

My 6yo dog has also not been vaccinated since her 16 month puppy booster. Neither dog will be vaccinated again.

[Andisa]

Thanks Jed, have shared the link :D .

Nice to get as much proof as I can when warning people about over vaccinating their pets.

[Jed]

I haven't vac mine apart from 2 puppy vacs and one at 12 months+ for about 14 years.Never had a problem.

This information needs to be out there, so people can make an informed choice. My vet knows I wont vac annually, but his partner sends me annual reminders *sigh*.

Interesting to see what Dr Glickmann of Purdue has had to say about raw and MVD, and vaccinations and MVD - and cavaliers. He feels that the vaccines exacerbate, or cause MVD in Cavaliers - but only in genetically susceptible dogs. Which may explain my excellent run - as a breeder and owner - with MVD. A few of the dogs had murmurs after the fire. Interesting to see that they have all disappeared

Dr. Glickmann's theory would explain why trying to pin a hereditary link on MVD is so difficult. I would not be at all surprised if SM is proved to be caused be something similar.

So far, I have bred a Cav which developed Leukemia within 2 weeks of being given her annual booster at 3. It was a particularly aggressive form of leukemia, and she was dead within 3 days. Then there was the Cav which developed ketoneacidosis, which is a serious complication of diabetes. Trouble is, she didn't have diabetes. She developed it within a week of being vaccinated, and again, was pts in 6 days.

So disheartening for a breeder, so sad for the owners, and so disasterous for the poor dog.

Anyhow - enjoy!!

You can also subscribe to Dogs Naturally.

[mantis]

Agree Jed, Kenny had his last vaccination at 3, my Vet said that after that they weren't needed, their natural immune system would click in. She also had a feeling that the rise in dog cancers could be attributed to the fact the natural immune systems were destroyed by the drugs.

I think it's the same with humans, the constant media hype about having flu vaccines every year, or else we could end up with a pandemic, It is just the pharmaceutical companies, paying Vets, Doctors & media, to sell their products.

[Andrea]

and further to Jed's link, for those who would like to keep up to date, would like to know more or for those who would like to help in some way, go to

The Pet Parents Action Group

[Issy]

When I came here a year ago my vet told me I had to do Heartworm once a year as it is very dangerous here? I've never had it done in the USA so is this Australia only?

So, none of you vaccinate at all? or do you only stop vaccinating after a certain age?

[tdierikx]

I'm not a fan of yearly vaccinations for my own dogs, but they all get their puppy shots and first adult booster (C3 only) - nothing after that.

My dogs would probably have a fairly high exposure to a wide range of things that I could be bringing home from pounds during the course of my volunteer work with rescue - but so far the worst we have had is mild KC...

I had a foster pup once that developed vaccinosis... to be fair the poor little bugger had been vacc'ed, wormed, and desexed all on the same day by the pound who released him - probably a bit of a smack to his poor little immune system doing all that at once. He was not overly ill with it, as he was still running around and playing, but the diarrhoea and vomiting had me worried for a couple of days.

I also wonder how many pups test "positive" for Parvo shortly after being vaccinated, but really have vaccinosis... if you'd ever seen (or smelled) both, it would be pretty obvious to the trained eye (or nose) which was which...

T.

[melzawelza]

While I don't vaccinate annually and agree that it is complete overkill, I think the underlying tone of the article (to not vaccinate ever) is really irresponsible. I also rolled my eyes when in the first paragraph they spoke about the child who was given brain damage by the MMR vaccine. There is no link between the two, studies have shown this - so I had my skeptical hat on while reading.

Don't over-vaccinate sure, but to suggest no vaccines at all is completely irresponsible.

[aussielover]

I personally believe puppy vaccinations are essential. I have seen a number of cases where herbal products or "alternative" treatments were given instead of puppy vaccs were given, with the final result of the puppies contracting parvovirus and requiring intensive care and even then, some died.

I get my dog titre tested which is really currently the only way you can tell if your dog has adequate antibody protection. It isn't 100% guarantee that your dog has adequate immunity and some dogs will have low titres but still be immunocompetent against certain viruses. However, it is the best guide we currently have. Titre testing is the same cost and in some cases cheaper than vaccination.

I agree it is irresponsible to suggest that dogs shouldn't be vaccinated at all. There is a small risk that a dog or human will have an adverse reaction to a vaccine, and and even tinier chance it will be a serious adverse reaction.

How is orthopedic disease related to vaccination (as one vet claims) and where is the evidence based research to support this?

[stellnme]

This concerns me as well. I have four dogs, all older and I really don't feel that they need annual vaccinations. The problem is, from time to time I need to board them as I don't have any other choice. The kennel owners are good people, no problem about leaving the dogs there but the owners insist on current vaccinations. How often should the titre test be done and are boarding kennels becoming more accepting of alternative tests?

[cavNrott]

I personally believe puppy vaccinations are essential. I have seen a number of cases where herbal products or "alternative" treatments were given instead of puppy vaccs were given, with the final result of the puppies contracting parvovirus and requiring intensive care and even then, some died.

I get my dog titre tested which is really currently the only way you can tell if your dog has adequate antibody protection. It isn't 100% guarantee that your dog has adequate immunity and some dogs will have low titres but still be immunocompetent against certain viruses. However, it is the best guide we currently have. Titre testing is the same cost and in some cases cheaper than vaccination.

I agree it is irresponsible to suggest that dogs shouldn't be vaccinated at all. There is a small risk that a dog or human will have an adverse reaction to a vaccine, and and even tinier chance it will be a serious adverse reaction.

How is orthopedic disease related to vaccination (as one vet claims) and where is the evidence based research to support this?

I have always done puppy vaccs plus the 16 month booster but won't vaccinate after the booster shots.

The vet who said I was uneducated about vaccinations also said titre testing was unreliable as the levels are not stable and are accurate only at the time of the test. He said if the titre was repeated the following day the level would be different, therefore unreliable and not an indication that the dog had an adequate level of protection against Parvo.

To dissuade me from continuing the discussion he quoted me $380 to titre each dog!! This is in suburban Melbourne. I no longer discuss vaccinations or titre testing with this vet.

[megan_]

When I came here a year ago my vet told me I had to do Heartworm once a year as it is very dangerous here? I've never had it done in the USA so is this Australia only?

So, none of you vaccinate at all? or do you only stop vaccinating after a certain age?

No one is suggesting never to vaccinate! Also, people are talking more parvovirus than heartworm.

[trifecta]

I haven't vac mine apart from 2 puppy vacs and one at 12 months+ for about 14 years.Never had a problem.

Same here apart from the dogs which have obedience trialled or attended club. The sooner these organisations accept titre testing the better.

[RuralPug]

When I came here a year ago my vet told me I had to do Heartworm once a year as it is very dangerous here? I've never had it done in the USA so is this Australia only?

So, none of you vaccinate at all? or do you only stop vaccinating after a certain age?

To answer your question about heartworm, it isn't necessary in all areas. Where regular frosts kill mosqutio larvae, then the disease is not prevalent. In some areas the resident mosquitoes do not carry and spread heartworm. I can assure you that in some parts of the USA heartworm is a huge killer of unprotected dogs.

Some vets are money hungry and will try to sell heartworm protection when it is unneccessary. Also, depending on the body weight of the dog, sometimes daily or monthly tablets (available in supermarkets, petshops and online) are preferable to a once yearly injection. I would contact every vet in your area and any obedience club too and just ask if they think that heartworm protection is necessary in your area. Or tell us your region and let experienced DOLers advise.

Of course, if you travel with your dogs, it may well be necessary to have them on heartworm protection even if your home area is safe.

Sorry, not meaning to take the thread off topic, but just wanting to answer the question.

[Issy]

Thanks for answering that. I live in Sydney and my dog is indoors. We only go outside on walks and sometimes to the park - but not often.

[perfect partners]

I was wondering why there seems to be an epidemic of cruciate problems in dogs - then I read this article - http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/vaccines-collagen-and-joint-disease/

[megan_]

Id rather vaccinate my dog (they get done every 3years only) and take them out and about to training, agility, the beach etc than keep them "safe" in my house only.

[Chris the Rebel Wolf]

“I was taught vaccines were safe and it was implied there had been safety studies done on them before they were used on the general public. They are not safe and there have not been any safety studies done on any of them. THIS. This bothers me more than I can describe.

I have had a chat to several local vets as I'm on the lookout for a new one for my new puppy. Nearly all in my area (including 'big brands' like Greencross as well as small private practices) are recommending a two-course puppy vaccine (6-8 weeks for the first and the second and last puppy vaccination coming 4 weeks later) And then every THREE YEARS after that instead of annually. Apart from the Kennel Cough spray which to be effective, is done yearly. I found that very interesting as when my previous dogs were puppies, eight and six years ago, it was drilled in YEARLY.

What is the opinion on titres? Should we as pet owners be pushing for vets to have these more readily available? I know many pet owners who have never heard of titre testing an before the start of the year I myself was among them. Is this a good way to make an informed decision on weather a dog needs a vaccination?

[Jumabaar]

Thanks for answering that. I live in Sydney and my dog is indoors. We only go outside on walks and sometimes to the park - but not often.

If you live in sydney then some form of heart worm preventative is highly recommended.