Mock Trials

[wuffles]

Does anyone do mock trials? How do you handle them?

When people at our club do mock trials, they generally run their dogs through exactly as they would in a trial, including no rewards until the end.

I have issues with motivation with my dog in the ring, so I am hesitant to put her through a full round without rewards. But what SHOULD I be doing? What do you guys do?

I like to start with a few games (eg. two food) to get her excited, also some start peg rewarding, but after that I'm not sure what the best approach is.

[huski]

I think what you should do really depends on you and your dog.

Personally I would use a mock trial as a chance to train my dog in a trial setting. I would reward randomly in the ring so my dog doesn't start predicting when the reward will come. IMO often for dogs that have issues with motivation in the ring stems from the dog predicting that the reward only comes when they leave the ring. this comes from the handler being too predictable with their reward delivery so the more you mix it up the better IMO. I want my dog thinking that the reward could come at any second.

[wuffles]

Thanks huski. That is my thought as well and is what I do at the moment when I get the opportunity. I'd like to be a bit random, for example rewarding after 10 steps of heelwork then leaving the ring, or just doing two exercises (eg. SFE and recall) then rewarding/leaving. The people I train with think I'm nuts, though, so I need some validation to make me feel better :laugh:

I do think that some of my dog's issues have to do with my nerves but she is also anticipating the lack of rewards also.

[huski]

Nerves is my issue too, I look like a completely different person in the ring compared to training and considering how much our dogs rely on our body language it can really impact on them. My dog looks at me in the ring and thinks "that does not look like that super fun person my rewards come from". I've done a lot of work now trying to emulate the way I look in the ring, in training.

IMO I try to be as unpredictable as possible when it comes to when I will give the reward, it could be two steps into heelwork or I could release her to the reward as I'm walking away to do a recall or it could be after she's dropped etc. I want her thinking "is it now? Or now? Or now?" not thinking "well after we do this round of heel work we will do a SFE and recall and then leave the ring and then I'll get the reward".

[Kavik]

Since my dog doesn't tug at trials yet I can't make use of the not for competition (NFC) runs in ADAA as that is pretty much the only reward you are allowed to bring into the ring (as you state at the beginning whether it will be NFC or a normal run you can't bring in food and not allowed to throw a toy).

However I have just joined a club which has club pointscore competition days once a month, and last night I used it as a mock trial/training run, using it as an opportunity to be able to reward in the ring, especially things like contacts and weaves where our performance at trials is not as good as at training.

[fuzzy82]

I think a mock trial is a nice opportunity to teach the dog that it's possible to get rewards even though you're trialling. That way when you don't reward for a real trial the dog just shakes it off and goes "oh well, just one of those times" instead of learning that trial = no rewards ever.

I haven't don't a mock trial, but that's what I would do.

[PAX]

IMO a mock trial is your opportunity to bring fun into the ring. I would be using my dogs highest level rewards for any parts that need help, make it the best place ever..

I do this at a club I belong to, but most people just use it exactly like a trial run out.

As long as you are mindful of other users, dont leave food on the ground etc, don't be intimidated by what others say and do, use it for you and your dogs greatest advantage.

[Ptolomy]

In a mock trial don't feel that you have to wait until the end of the exercise to reward

I do a lot of playing - pushing the dog away, hand touches, encouraging the dog to jump up

[bedazzledx2]

For mock trials I will have a plan and will inform the 'judge' if I'm going to do something unexpected. I try not to include food in the ring as part of the equation or if I do its not usually food from my pocket...believe me, dogs know!!! Sometimes I will give the judge a container of food or have a My Dog in my pocket which has no smell until its opened. A randomly produced ball or tuggy works well too.

Lets say you are doing Open for example...you could do a couple of steps and jackpot out of the ring, or, you could do half the heeling pattern and when the dog is particularly attentive break off and have a play...yipee!! then back to it.

I will pay for three or four go's but usually only do two or three exercises which are usually back chained.

[gsdog2]

IMO a mock trial is your opportunity to bring fun into the ring. I would be using my dogs highest level rewards for any parts that need help, make it the best place ever..

I do this at a club I belong to, but most people just use it exactly like a trial run out.

As long as you are mindful of other users, dont leave food on the ground etc, don't be intimidated by what others say and do, use it for you and your dogs greatest advantage.

I agree with this - including being intimidated by others.

My shepherd is 'almost' ready for the ring, something I've been preparing her for since I brought her home at 8wks. She's ball driven (loves her tug too) however there's not a lot of places where we live that encourage any sort of reward let alone using her prey drive. That's been fine until now - I take her to a local club and they're ok with me going off doing my own thing but now I want to try her in the mock trial ring and I'm already feeling intimidated . At the moment I train at the far end of the paddock so I won't upset anyone, but their mock trial ring's right next to their classes. I won't be throwing her ball but I would like to use tug in the mock trial ring but I'm pretty sure at best it won't be appreciated and at worst I'll be asked not to use it - so yes I'm already feeling intimidated

[wuffles]

Thanks for the comments everyone!

IMO a mock trial is your opportunity to bring fun into the ring. I would be using my dogs highest level rewards for any parts that need help, make it the best place ever..

I do this at a club I belong to, but most people just use it exactly like a trial run out.

As long as you are mindful of other users, dont leave food on the ground etc, don't be intimidated by what others say and do, use it for you and your dogs greatest advantage.

I agree with this - including being intimidated by others.

My shepherd is 'almost' ready for the ring, something I've been preparing her for since I brought her home at 8wks. She's ball driven (loves her tug too) however there's not a lot of places where we live that encourage any sort of reward let alone using her prey drive. That's been fine until now - I take her to a local club and they're ok with me going off doing my own thing but now I want to try her in the mock trial ring and I'm already feeling intimidated . At the moment I train at the far end of the paddock so I won't upset anyone, but their mock trial ring's right next to their classes. I won't be throwing her ball but I would like to use tug in the mock trial ring but I'm pretty sure at best it won't be appreciated and at worst I'll be asked not to use it - so yes I'm already feeling intimidated

I would recommend asking someone involved - perhaps you are worrying about nothing! I've found that as long as I listen to advice without being rude, and pre-warn them about my intentions, people don't really mind what I do. The more rapport I build with people by training and trialling my dog, the easier it gets :) Trust me I was very intimidated by the senior triallers at first but now not so much.

My other suggestion would be to find some like minded individuals (I didn't find this difficult at my club, there are quite a bunch of us but we are generally novice trainers) and run some little mock trials of your own. All you need is some rope and a start peg and you can do what you like! :)

We did a run through yesterday, not strictly a mock trial but as close as we're going to get at the moment. I actually found that our biggest problem was just going into the ring, before we even got to the start peg! So I worked on that a little, then did a run through which was quite decent. We'll see how it translates to our next trial.

[ness]

Things are changing in some respects gsdog2. Not sure but we headed out to a mock trial this morning and the vast majority use food however I did see a few people around with tug toys (mostly in the rally ring). I guess I have just gone about things my own way - we have regular club training and I have been proactive and trained the way I have wanted to. Can't say I saw to many raised eyebrows to using a tug this morning and it wasn't my regular club that were hosting the mock trial.

I tend to reward if I think she has done something well. This morning I did opt to reward at the end of a heel pattern because she was already being a little naughty and trying to pinch the toy while working but did settle towards the end. I will almost always reward a SFE because she use to be a super nervy dog although I probably needn't these days. I have problems with rewarding after a retrieve because she goes through phases of finding that more rewarding then the game of tug or any food reward I have to offer.

[gsdog2]

I would recommend asking someone involved - perhaps you are worrying about nothing! I've found that as long as I listen to advice without being rude, and pre-warn them about my intentions, people don't really mind what I do. The more rapport I build with people by training and trialling my dog, the easier it gets :) Trust me I was very intimidated by the senior triallers at first but now not so much.

Thanks wuffles, I get on well with a number of people involved in the running of the club, however none of them use balls or tugs as rewards (even requesting people not use them in classes). I will let them know my intentions beforehand, although I'm not sure what I'll do if they say no.

I will almost always reward a SFE because she use to be a super nervy dog although I probably needn't these days.

SFE is the hardest exercise for my girl as she see's everyone as a potential cuddle and melts when approached - it would be huge for her not to move and would deserve a huge reward (tug :) )

[wuffles]

No-one at my club uses balls or tug either in mock trials, but I'm pretty sure no-one would have a big issue with it if it was explained beforehand :)

SFE is our easiest exercise Touch wood.

[gsdog2]

No-one at my club uses balls or tug either in mock trials, but I'm pretty sure no-one would have a big issue with it if it was explained beforehand :)

SFE is our easiest exercise Touch wood.

I could use food but it's not huge on her rewards ladder, so fingers crossed they're ok with her tug.

I've gone from having dogs that hated SFE and being handled by strangers to a dog that loves everyone - I'm happy to work with what I've got :laugh:

[wuffles]

No-one at my club uses balls or tug either in mock trials, but I'm pretty sure no-one would have a big issue with it if it was explained beforehand :)

SFE is our easiest exercise Touch wood.

I could use food but it's not huge on her rewards ladder, so fingers crossed they're ok with her tug.

I've gone from having dogs that hated SFE and being handled by strangers to a dog that loves everyone - I'm happy to work with what I've got :laugh:

Used to be hard for us, she loved everyone, lost a few points in CCD... but got it together in Novice and now she just stands there and looks disgusted :laugh:

[Kavik]

IMO a mock trial is your opportunity to bring fun into the ring. I would be using my dogs highest level rewards for any parts that need help, make it the best place ever..

I do this at a club I belong to, but most people just use it exactly like a trial run out.

As long as you are mindful of other users, dont leave food on the ground etc, don't be intimidated by what others say and do, use it for you and your dogs greatest advantage.

I agree with this - including being intimidated by others.

My shepherd is 'almost' ready for the ring, something I've been preparing her for since I brought her home at 8wks. She's ball driven (loves her tug too) however there's not a lot of places where we live that encourage any sort of reward let alone using her prey drive. That's been fine until now - I take her to a local club and they're ok with me going off doing my own thing but now I want to try her in the mock trial ring and I'm already feeling intimidated . At the moment I train at the far end of the paddock so I won't upset anyone, but their mock trial ring's right next to their classes. I won't be throwing her ball but I would like to use tug in the mock trial ring but I'm pretty sure at best it won't be appreciated and at worst I'll be asked not to use it - so yes I'm already feeling intimidated

That's very interesting considering that in agility NFC runs in ADAA a tug is the only reward you are allowed to use! and is the preferred reward for pretty much all top level international competitors.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Kavik

[ness]

Still not in obedience Kavik - food has always seemed to be the preferred reward.

[wuffles]

I hope this isn't getting too off track (although it is my thread and I don't mind :laugh:) but at a trial last weekend we were asked to stop TALKING next to the Novice obedience ring (the ring was in a fenced area) so obedience is still a bit regimented over here :laugh:

Edit: By this I just mean, it's difficult to reward your dog at obedience trials, or even warm them up sometimes.

Edited April 29, 2012 by wuffles

[gsdog2]

I hope this isn't getting too off track (although it is my thread and I don't mind :laugh:) but at a trial last weekend we were asked to stop TALKING next to the Novice obedience ring (the ring was in a fenced area) so obedience is still a bit regimented over here :laugh:

Edit: By this I just mean, it's difficult to reward your dog at obedience trials, or even warm them up sometimes.

Wasn't going to say anything but as long as you don't mind :laugh:

I've been out of the loop for awhile and fully expected things to have changed when we returned. I have watched the classes to see what sort of rewards are offered and struggled to see anything - apparently rewards are not encouraged . A couple of weeks ago a lady was chatted for using a tug with her Mal - it was working beautifully but it was a distraction to the rest of the class.

My next 'issue' will also be warming up before a trial - I would like to use her tug, but I don't want to upset other handlers???