How To Train A Great Dane Who Is Not Interested In Treats

[MrStompy]

We have an 8 month old Great dane.

He is a great dog and we love him to death of course.

Around the house he is a perfect dog i can get him to come when he is called, go to bed, sit, stay etc etc and even to be "gentle" (not sure how he knows what that means but tell him "gentle" and it works).

At home he will do just about anything it seems for treats, he is fantastic and he is now at the point where he will most things without a treat - just kind words and a pat.

He will walk on the lead beautifully in the yard and even to the point where i dont even need the lead - he will just stay next to me and voice commands keep him with me.

He lulls us into a false sense of security and we venture beyond the yard and all of a sudden he is no longer interested in treats or us anymore

To walk him out of the yard i have to use one of those head piece things that wrap a cord over his mouth.

That was reccomended by a dog trainer and it has worked really well in the past but I am continually having to pull him up.

I dont trust it and i dont think it is an indefinite solution.

If he sees a little kid or another dog he will still fight me to try and get to them (not aggressively)

I want to be able to trust that when he is just on a normal lead i wont have to fight him at all.

He also gets way over excited and pulls hard on the lead. Ive tried stopping, walking back the other way, treats but he still pulls

If he is off the lead at the beach or gets out of the yard he will do whatever pleases him and will not come when we call him. i basically have to trick him into coming to me or sneak up on him and put him back on his lead.

I know that he just needs recall training for that but i dont know what to reward him with that will entice him to come to us when called as he is not interested in us or treats when out.

I know some dogs are food driven and others are play driven but our boy changes what drives him depending where he is. He is food driven at home but out of the yard I dont know what drives him.

I was hoping someone might have some suggestions on training tips or how i can reward him when out and about so that i can try to settle him down and get better control of him out of the yard.

It is at the point now where we think very carefully about where we are going, who will be there and what time it is before we take him - ie we wont take him to the beach if we think it will be crowded.

he is a very socialised dog - he comes most places with us but we have to very catious around kids and strangers etc not that he has any intentions of harming anyone its just through his size that he can easily knock a small kid over which he then thinks is a game.

I really appreciate any advice you might have

[Obi246]

I would recommend joining a good dog obedience club. There you will learn tools to control him and he will learn how to behave around other dogs. They are generally pretty cheap - mine is only a $15 registration fee + gold coin donation each time you go.

In regards to him not liking treats, I have read about people who don't feed their dogs meals... but give them dry food as treats throughout the day so they always have high food drive. What treats are you using?? My dog loves fritz and cheese.

If he has no recall, you could use a long lead (~10m) so he can still have a run around, but you can pull him back to you when you call him so he learns that if you call he has to come back. Then only once he has 100% recall let him off the lead.

I'm sure there are more experienced dog trainers that may have other ideas.

[Danois]

Hi - come into the Dane thread in the breed sub forum or search for Ozzie Danes on Facebook as you'll get a lot of breed specific advice as Danes can be an interesting challenge sometimes for training!

I would not be letting him off lead while he does not recall as its too much if a risk. Get yourself a long line (horse lunge leads are perfect) and a bit empty oval and train the recall by reeling him in.

As for not being interested in treats when outside of the home - sounds like everything else is waaaay more interesting. Sometimes being well socialized can be a pain as they have to know everything that is going on rather than just ignoring things.

My 4 year old has been a challenge at times - lots of interest in other dogs, bit of anxiety and no food drive makes obedience training interesting!

Joining a good obedience club is a great start - look for one which uses different training methods as purely positive training does not always work on a Dane but a simple change in tone of voice can make a difference!

[huski]

What treats are you using to train him?

Personally I would recommend a session with a trainer as it sounds like you have a number of problems.

My dog is quite food driven, but for quite a long time as soon as we left the house she'd have little to zero interest in treats and I could literally shove food under her nose and she wouldn't notice it. Training around distractions can be difficult even for dogs with decent food or prey drive, and from what you've said it sounds like your dog has developed some habits that will take some behaviour modification to change.

[Nekhbet]

your dog is fine at home because there is nothing more rewarding. It's like when you're really hungry and your cupboards are bare, a cup noodle seems quite tempting, go out to a restaurant and that some cup noodle is a now comparatively average and unexciting item you would drop in a heartbeat.

You need to work on your leadership skills I'm surprised a head halter on a young dane was recommended. I think a school is a great idea, meantime there are some great articles to read up on at www.leerburg.com

Start in the front yard, and if he pulls towards dogs or children turn him around and walk away, redirecting his attention. He needs to learn that he cannot get what he wants and in fact he will get further away.

[Weasels]

My dog is quite food driven, but for quite a long time as soon as we left the house she'd have little to zero interest in treats and I could literally shove food under her nose and she wouldn't notice it.

My boy was like this too, I could put treats on his tongue and he wouldn't react! It was just a matter of building up more slowly to highly distracting environments, like others said. I also taught a couple of quick-reaction cues - "catch!" was a good one because he would snap his head around, get a treat, then go right back to what he was doing. Win-win from his perspective. Then I built up the duration of attention to me and the imminent treat.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the value of treats can be increased through conditioning by pairing them with praise & a happy owner, but I haven't really read up on this

I too have a dog where what is rewarding to him varies with time and place, so I have to get creative :) Treats in one pocket, a toy in another, and a leash in-hand to control Premack rewards ('do what I ask and then you can go do that other thing you want to do'). He's a work in progress, but we've made big improvements in his responsiveness this way.

Edit - here's a nice short article explaining Premack rewards: http://www.teachingdogobedience.com/2009/01/premacks-principle.html

Edited April 24, 2012 by Weasels

[Kavik]

I agree with the others - you need to build distractions slowly and build duration of attention. Going to see a trainer would be very helpful also given the size of the dog and the issues you are having.

[ChristineX]

Hi Mrstompy - its not that your great dane isn't interested in treats, its that the world outside your home is, at the moment, too distracting. which is why a good training club or school has major benefits.

If you can, add distractions slowly (start outside your front door, when he calms enough to be listening take another step or two for example), up the value of the treats (ie something he would normally die for) and keep going with your training - you have a young dog and you will get there if you are consistant and persistant. And reward heavily for any notice he takes of you (ie, reward for focussing on you.)

[MrStompy]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

It makes sense that the outside world is too overwhelming for him. i guess i was expecting too much from him too soon.

Since my initial post i have changed a few things for his walks. when i walk him i try to take him at different times than i was doing so there are fewer people around or to places that are not so popular.

When he pulls on the lead now i stop and dont move again till he is not pulling or else walk the other way.

The suggestion about taking a toy as well as treats is a great idea - usually a squeaker toy gets his attention pretty quick.

I dont know why i didnt think of that ... makes a lot of sense

The last few walks have actually been very promising with him. maybe he was having a bad week (or i was).

I will check out those suggested sites.

thanks again

[Staffyluv]

I had a similar issue and the dog was not interested in treats or toys or me and I was getting really frustrated..

Our trainer had me cut his meal food back, so he was actually a bit hungry at training time...

Also I was trying to use a firm voice all the time and as soon as I started using an excited voice and a clicker, all of a sudden the dog was interested in me, the toys, the clicker and the treats..

A good trainer is worth their weight in gold...

If what you are doing is not working I suggest getting help...

[m-sass]

We have an 8 month old Great dane.

He is a great dog and we love him to death of course.

Around the house he is a perfect dog i can get him to come when he is called, go to bed, sit, stay etc etc and even to be "gentle" (not sure how he knows what that means but tell him "gentle" and it works).

At home he will do just about anything it seems for treats, he is fantastic and he is now at the point where he will most things without a treat - just kind words and a pat.

He will walk on the lead beautifully in the yard and even to the point where i dont even need the lead - he will just stay next to me and voice commands keep him with me.

He lulls us into a false sense of security and we venture beyond the yard and all of a sudden he is no longer interested in treats or us anymore

To walk him out of the yard i have to use one of those head piece things that wrap a cord over his mouth.

That was reccomended by a dog trainer and it has worked really well in the past but I am continually having to pull him up.

I dont trust it and i dont think it is an indefinite solution.

If he sees a little kid or another dog he will still fight me to try and get to them (not aggressively)

I want to be able to trust that when he is just on a normal lead i wont have to fight him at all.

He also gets way over excited and pulls hard on the lead. Ive tried stopping, walking back the other way, treats but he still pulls

If he is off the lead at the beach or gets out of the yard he will do whatever pleases him and will not come when we call him. i basically have to trick him into coming to me or sneak up on him and put him back on his lead.

I know that he just needs recall training for that but i dont know what to reward him with that will entice him to come to us when called as he is not interested in us or treats when out.

I know some dogs are food driven and others are play driven but our boy changes what drives him depending where he is. He is food driven at home but out of the yard I dont know what drives him.

I was hoping someone might have some suggestions on training tips or how i can reward him when out and about so that i can try to settle him down and get better control of him out of the yard.

It is at the point now where we think very carefully about where we are going, who will be there and what time it is before we take him - ie we wont take him to the beach if we think it will be crowded.

he is a very socialised dog - he comes most places with us but we have to very catious around kids and strangers etc not that he has any intentions of harming anyone its just through his size that he can easily knock a small kid over which he then thinks is a game.

I really appreciate any advice you might have

Make an appointment with K9pro to be taught how to use a prong collar :D

[Danois]

Not that I have anything against prong collars but there is a huge amount which can be done between using a Haiti and a prong collar such as teaching loose lead walking.

Danes have their own quirks when it comes to training. Whilst it is achievable, quite a few Dane owners I know are not able to get that intense focus as Danes are not necessarily a breed that is comfortable with that. You are never going to get a Dane working like a BC etc - they simply don't care enough LoL!

I also think there has been a discussion on here recently discussing the merits of expecting a dog to work on an empty stomach - no energy results in a sluggish inattentive dog.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Mr Stompy

I had similar problems with my dog - going for a walk from home to the park - she'd freak out and would not take any kind of treat - no matter how yummy she normally found it. For her - not taking food - is a measure of how stressed she is. If she will take a treat, she's pretty comfortable about where she is, if she won't - it's because she's stressed out or highly distracted (look at that cat / LAT cat).

You can use the something else more exciting as the reward (if it's safe) eg a bit of nice heeling, and reward with "go sniff" and enough loose lead to do so. If your dog can do a nice recall away from other dogs, you can reward with "go play". Ie pay attention to anything your dog finds interesting or exciting and if its safe to do so - use those things to reward him. And only let him have those things with your permission.

And if you feel he can't recall away from whatever exciting thing it is at your current level of training - just go get him and put him back on lead - don't break your recall word or his name by calling over and over when he's not likely to come.

With exciting things like cats - it goes something like - from a safe distance where he can still pay attention to you - "Look at the cat" (treat), look at me - (treat), look at that (cat) (treat) etc. Lesley McDevitt in "control unleashed" (aka CU) has a good description of how to use distractions like cats (and joggers and bicycles etc) as training opportunities. Or you can google LAT CU dog game.

[sas]

Hi, my name is Sacha from Great Dane Rescue. You're not alone in your challenges, we hear stories like yours all the time. You can definately get back on the right track and fairly quickly with the right trainer.

Our Great Dane Rescue Trainer & Behaviourist is Craig Murray at Bringelly, if you'd like to contact me privately at [email protected] we can arrange a session for you and will cover this cost for you. We also reccomend Steve Courtney at K9 Pro if if he is closer to you, you're welcome to make an appt there

Edited April 30, 2012 by sas

[megan_]

I agree Snook!

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Like button for Sas's post. Most excellent offer!

[MrStompy]

Hi, my name is Sacha from Great Dane Rescue. You're not alone in your challenges, we hear stories like yours all the time. You can definately get back on the right track and fairly quickly with the right trainer.

hi Sas

Thanks so much for your very kind offer. i will send you an email.

We have been working hard with him and have been attending the local dog obedience school

After seeing how the other dogs are i dont think our edmond is that bad after all.

His problem is that his size exaggerates everything he does.

When he doesnt sit in class it is obvious whereas the little dogs can get away with being disobedient.

It is good though as it gives him a chance to be with other dogs as most dog owners out and about wont let their dogs near him because they think he will eat them (which he definitely would not do).

I feel sorry for him about this as he is desperate to play with any other dog but doesnt get a chance too often as usually the other dog is too small, scared etc.

Walks are much better too now. i use the body harness and a short leash. I carry treats and small squeeky toy.

He still isnt interested in treats but when he becomes more interested in a passing dog or a bird etc i squeek the toy and he cant help himself but to look at it will usually gains a bit of time for the distraction to pass without too much fuss.

thanks again everyone for the advice. its greatly appreciated