laurajaye Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 I have a beautiful 11 month old border collie neutered male who has always responded well to training etc and has always been very friendly to people and dogs. Right from the time i brought him home at 8 weeks he has challenged me but i have stood my ground and we have worked through it. But the last few times he has interacted with a dominant dog or a child under 6 it has not ended well and i dont know what to do! With some dogs he is has an instant best friend, and others he becomes very aggressive (snarling, hackles raised, and then they try to jump at each other!). With small children hes fine for a bit but very quiet, ears down, tail down in an almost submissive way and then all of a sudden he will jump at them, nudging them hard or nipping at them (but never any agressive behaviour). Once when we werent around he was quite content lounging inside with my 5yo cousin but as soon as we were around he lunged at her face and nosed her quite hard (but no teeth or anything). Obviously this behaviour is NOT ON but there is no way i can use other peoples children or pets to train him. We have a 4mnth old baby boy and they absolutely adore each other but when it comes to older children i dont trust him one bit. Please help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 The behaviour you are describing does not indicate dominance to me. As this dog has already lunged at a small child IMO you need to get professional help immediately. You need to get someone to come to your home and study what the dog is doing - internet diagnosis could end in tragedy. In the mean time this dog should not be around children or other dogs - it is up to you and you alone to ensure this doesn't happen until you get the issues sorted. Good on you in recognising you have a problem and not waiting for disaster before seeking help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Agree it doesn't sound like dominant behaviour, but it could be a herding instinct? What you described sound like the stalking process of a sheepdog. BCs are breed to stop something that is running away unexpectedly or to move something that is refusing to move, which can be a dangerous instinct around kids. It's also normal for not all dogs to get along. If you can find some common thread in the dogs he doesn't like it can help you manage it. But agree with Sandra a professional trainer can help you diagnose & work with the issue with the kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Agree this sounds like something you need to get someone in who can objectively look at what the dog is doing to determine why. Have you spoken to the breeder you got the dog from? Be open and honest with them, most behaviours dogs show have a genetic component and an environmental component. So they may have a genetic predisposition to something and then how we deal with them determines the behaviour they actually demonstrate. Plus it is likely your breeder will have dealt with many dogs in their lifetime, so may have some experience in this sort of behaviour and be able to help you until you can see a trainer/behaviourist. From the dogs I see (drop in the ocean compared to other people!!) dogs from working lines seem to have a faster switch to go to herding (which is sort of what the behaviour you described sounds like), so if your dog has working lines behind it that would be contributing. Good luck, but make sure the kids are never left alone with the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurajaye Posted April 22, 2012 Author Share Posted April 22, 2012 Thanks for the replies! The common denominator with other dogs seems to be other dominant male dogs.. He will greet them by wrapping his front legs around their neck which not all dogs appreciate. Some dogs dont even get close enough for him to be able to do this though. Could it be more of a protective (of us) stance? As i said with children, he was fine when my partner and i werent around. We always make sure they are calm and not running around screaming and in the past he has happily played outside with a 2yo and 5yo. He possibly just doesnt understand what they are? He isnt trying to hurt them so it could be a hearding instinct or a protective thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 He's right at the age where he's growing into his adult behaviour, so it's not unusual for things to be changing from when he was a pup :) I know with my boy he grew much more aloof with other dogs around 12-15 months old, he still plays with some dogs but he doesn't love everyone the way he did when he was younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Wrapping front legs around another dog is appalling manners I think (unless they are close friends who are playing). So I would be keeping him at a distance from other dogs until he learns (is taught) his manners. Maybe go in to the training thread and have a look at some of the stuff on reactive dogs and see if it fits in with the behaviour you are seeing. Like Sandra777 said trying to diagnose over the internet is fraught with problems, those with the knowhow can't actually see and interpret what is going on with your dog and the environment. So you might get great advice ut not for the problem you have (it will be for the perceived problem). Having a reactive BC, my advice to everyone I meet now with a dog showing even slight issues like that is to get help from someone who knows what they're doing - it's much easier to prevent there being a problem that to try and untrain and fix a problem. OT- have you put pics of your young man up in the BC thread????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Please, please do not leave him unsupervised with children! No dog should be left unsupervised but ESPECIALLY a dog showing the behaviour you are describing. I agree with getting a professional in to assess the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Having a Border Collie challenge you is not normal, outsmart you yes, challenge you no. One of the strongest breed traits is being biddable and willing to please so something isn't right. What you have described is not dominant behaviour either, more obnoxious brat with no manners. You really do need a qualified trainer or behaviouralist to assess what is going on because I think you are reading the signs wrong. Are the other dogs he is reacting to, other Border Collies? If not they are probably challenging him by staring at him and Borders hate that. They are a breed that usually prefer their own breed or at least other herding breeds and expecting them to play nice with all other breeds is asking for trouble. Some just don't like strange dogs getting in their face at all and prefer to stick to their own pack. The thing with the kids sounds more like a confused dog that isn't sure how to react to them. I used to have one that was very wary of under 5s, including my niece and she would attempt to snap at kids noses like she would at a stubborn sheep. When my niece turned 5 I took her for a walk with the dog on lead, allowed her to hold the lead and issue obedience commands. You could see the dog visibly relax as she realised this little creature was actually a person and she happily complied. They became best friends after that but I still never allowed that dog to be with kids too young to verbally control a dog because she just didn't understand what they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Are the other dogs he is reacting to, other Border Collies? If not they are probably challenging him by staring at him and Borders hate that. They are a breed that usually prefer their own breed or at least other herding breeds and expecting them to play nice with all other breeds is asking for trouble. Some just don't like strange dogs getting in their face at all and prefer to stick to their own pack. This bit here describes my Kenzie to a tee!!! She generally loves all other working breeds, loves her few close friends that are not working breeds (and over time will make friends with other breeds of dogs but it usually takes a few good meetings), but otherwise she pretty much just says "I don't get you" about other breeds of dogs!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 (edited) Please get someone to assess him and DO NOT leave him alone with children, even if he does appear relaxed. Incorrect diagnosis and treatment will only lead to escalation of this behaviour. It sounds fear based to me but very difficult to know from your description. Nipping, snapping, nudging or biting at children's faces is NOT a herding trait, nor is it likely to be more common in working line dogs! Labeling things like this, whether they are true or not, often makes us subconsciously excuse them. .Someone very wise once told me "it doesn't matter why they bite, it matters that they bite" Edited April 26, 2012 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now