Dog Attacks Cat In Dogs Own Yard

[Tempus Fugit]

Sorry, I added some more to my post if no one saw and added some more thoughts on the matter. She *could* be in a bit of a sticky situation. I really, really don't think it'd hold up in court at all but that doesn't stop them placing the order anyway, as they can essentially do whatever they like - your only recourse is appealing in court which is obviously costly and stressful. Best bet is to prevent that order being placed in the first place through whatever means you can (paying the vet bills (WITH letter stating it is goodwill only!), reading up on the Act and being prepared to show the Council that you know what you're talking about and won't back down).

Clyde send me a PM if it gets to that point and I'll send you my number to pass on to them to help them out.

From what you've said though the cat owners haven't complained or anything yet, she just rang up to check. Fingers crossed her paying the bill will mean that they don't contact the Council and she won't have to deal with any of this hypothetical.

I think Melzawelza is essentially correct although I think the appeal would hinge more on the phrase 'without provocation'. 'Provocation' does not appear to be defined in the Act and if there are no independent witnesses to the attack then there is no proof that the cat did not provoke the dog. Cats, like dogs, are predatory carnivores and are well known to attack and kill other animals such as mice, bilbys, birds etc.

[Esky the husky]

tdierikx that is so sad

[Whippetsmum]

On the Dept of Local Govt website for NSW, it says if you want to stop cats coming into your yard get a dog....

http://www.dlg.nsw.gov.au/dlg/dlghome/documents/Newsletters/cainfo11.pdf

People can discourage cats from coming into their

yards by:

owning a dog;

using deterrents;

hosing any cat that enters the yard.

Doesn't say what happens when the dog follows local govt advice though.

[Dame Aussie]

On the Dept of Local Govt website for NSW, it says if you want to stop cats coming into your yard get a dog....

http://www.dlg.nsw.gov.au/dlg/dlghome/documents/Newsletters/cainfo11.pdf

People can discourage cats from coming into their

yards by:

owning a dog;

using deterrents;

hosing any cat that enters the yard.

Doesn't say what happens when the dog follows local govt advice though.

What a joke!! Argh! They make me ragey! Where's my Rolly eye man?!

[MishB]

In our Council area you can get a dangerous dog declaration if your dog kills a cat on your property. The Friday before Good Friday the GSD in the yard over our back fence killed the side neighbours cat, the cat was not dead when the neighbour found the GSD with him but died en route to the vet. I had heard the commotion (it was early hours of the morning) but assumed it was a possum or bat the dog had bailed up.The neighbour over the back was unsure where the cat lived as it roamed the entire area constantly.

On the Saturday morning the side neighbour called us and asked if we had seen the cat, we had not but it made me think about the incident the previous morning and I offered to ask the back neighbour, he confirmed it was her cat that the dog had caught and that it was dead. He also said the GSD had a tooth embedded in his muzzle and he would be seeking money for his vet bills - up until that point the side neighbour; whilst very upset had acknowledged it was her fault for not containing the cat. When she heard he was looking to her to pay his vet bills for the dog she said if he did this she would report the dog to the council. He said she did not stand a chance as the cat was on his property, the dog is properly contained and has never escaped.

Turns out he is wrong -on checking with the Council (anonymously) he was informed if there is a formal complaint they will declare his dog dangerous. The Council's rationale for their decisions on these things " other pet owners in the area have the right to know what might happen if their pets stray into his yard". Nothing was said regarding the side neighbour's obligations or otherwise to contain her cats. She has others and they also roam, I have asked both her and our other side neighbour repeatedly to please keep their cats out of our property to no avail.

The responsible dog owner will have to bear the brunt of her lack of care of her cat. He will be asked to build an additional enclosure inside his yard for the dog, despite the fact the dog has never escaped and there is no suitable area due to the fact they have extensive landscaping and a pool. He will have to put signage on his fence and pay a much higher annual registration, he is totally (and understandably) enraged,basically the Council said he should pay his own vet bills, apologise to the cat owner and hope she does not complain.

Whilst I think he could have been more empathetic with how he approached the vet bill issue when he could plainly see how upset the cat owner was, I don't think what the Council will do if she complains is right. The dog was contained,the back neighbour tried to get the cat to the vet for care and was visibly upset by the whole incident. Whilst chatting with other residents of the street I have been asking a few questions and every dog owner in the street (including us) has tales of cats roaming in their properties night and day - I have no idea what can be done but it makes me very nervous as I cannot be sure my girl would not kill a cat if she managed to catch one in "her" yard.

OMG thats outrageous!!!

[mantis]

On the Dept of Local Govt website for NSW, it says if you want to stop cats coming into your yard get a dog....

http://www.dlg.nsw.gov.au/dlg/dlghome/documents/Newsletters/cainfo11.pdf

People can discourage cats from coming into their

yards by:

owning a dog;

using deterrents;

hosing any cat that enters the yard.

Doesn't say what happens when the dog follows local govt advice though.

Or if cats aren't aware of the risks.

[Atanquin]

Just wondering what would happen if your dog was attacked by a cat in his own yard as my dog is always being beaten up by cats and runs And hides

[Chompadomp]

Is this NSW we're talking about?

If so no, they shouldn't be declaring the dog dangerous and have no grounds to stand on.

Here is a link to the act:

http://www.legislati...+87+1998+cd+0+N

Scroll to section 16 and read 2b

(2) It is not an offence under this section if the incident occurred:

(a) as a result of the dog being teased, mistreated, attacked or otherwise provoked, or

(b) as a result of the person or animal trespassing on the property on which the dog was being kept, or

© as a result of the dog acting in reasonable defence of a person or property, or

(d) in the course of lawful hunting, or

(e) in the course of the working of stock by the dog or the training of the dog in the working of stock.

Either the Council doesn't understand the act they're enforcing or they're bluffing her which they often do.

ETA:

The section they are referring to is section 33 in regards to dangerous dogs:

33 Meaning of “dangerous”

(1) For the purposes of this Division, a dog is dangerous if it:

(a) has, without provocation, attacked or killed a person or animal (other than vermin), or

(b) has, without provocation, repeatedly threatened to attack or repeatedly chased a person or animal (other than vermin), or

© has displayed unreasonable aggression towards a person or animal (other than vermin), or(d) is kept or used for the purposes of hunting.

The attack would not be deemed unreasonable though based on section 16 and the definition of what an attack is.

But wouldn't almost killing the cat be classed as 'unreasonable aggression'?

Appreciate the help with this too, Cheers.

IMO yes killing another animal just for the sake of it is unreasonable aggression, I have always had dogs and no way would I think it was acceptable for any of them to kill an animal that wandered into my yard, I have to say I am a little shocked that people are saying yeah well that's what dogs do.

FWIW I don't like cats and think they should be indoors 24/7.

[Dame Aussie]

Is this NSW we're talking about?

If so no, they shouldn't be declaring the dog dangerous and have no grounds to stand on.

Here is a link to the act:

http://www.legislati...+87+1998+cd+0+N

Scroll to section 16 and read 2b

(2) It is not an offence under this section if the incident occurred:

(a) as a result of the dog being teased, mistreated, attacked or otherwise provoked, or

(b) as a result of the person or animal trespassing on the property on which the dog was being kept, or

© as a result of the dog acting in reasonable defence of a person or property, or

(d) in the course of lawful hunting, or

(e) in the course of the working of stock by the dog or the training of the dog in the working of stock.

Either the Council doesn't understand the act they're enforcing or they're bluffing her which they often do.

ETA:

The section they are referring to is section 33 in regards to dangerous dogs:

33 Meaning of “dangerous”

(1) For the purposes of this Division, a dog is dangerous if it:

(a) has, without provocation, attacked or killed a person or animal (other than vermin), or

(b) has, without provocation, repeatedly threatened to attack or repeatedly chased a person or animal (other than vermin), or

© has displayed unreasonable aggression towards a person or animal (other than vermin), or(d) is kept or used for the purposes of hunting.

The attack would not be deemed unreasonable though based on section 16 and the definition of what an attack is.

But wouldn't almost killing the cat be classed as 'unreasonable aggression'?

Appreciate the help with this too, Cheers.

IMO yes killing another animal just for the sake of it is unreasonable aggression, I have always had dogs and no way would I think it was acceptable for any of them to kill an animal that wandered into my yard, I have to say I am a little shocked that people are saying yeah well that's what dogs do.

FWIW I don't like cats and think they should be indoors 24/7.

I wouldn't call either of my dogs aggressive at all but I have no idea what they would do to a cat in my yard.

It doesn't necessarily have to be on purpose either,if my big dog jumped or fell on a cat it could be killed.

To me, it's not about what my dogs do, they're in their yard mindung their own business, and as far as I'm concerned they have the right to protect it.

[sausy.dog]

I have had plenty of chickens killed by cats - "unreasonable agression" or just what they do??

No different in regards to cats being attacked in backyards by dogs, the dog is only displaying the same instincts, but because it's a dog is it supposed to have more self control? That just doesn't make sense.

This is also a very grey area using the words "other than vermin". How is a dog supposed to distinguish between a feral cat (which are vermin by definition) and someones pet.

[emgem]

Just wondering what would happen if your dog was attacked by a cat in his own yard as my dog is always being beaten up by cats and runs And hides

Short answer nothing at least in NSW. I complained to the council about an aggressive cat that kept attacking my dog when we walked through its territory. I tried walking on the other side of the street and keeping a eye out for it, but the bloody thing would stalk us and leap out from behind bushes. Twice it scratched him on the nose. The council basically laughed at me.

And of he now thinks cats are the enemy.

[Dame Aussie]

I have had plenty of chickens killed by cats - "unreasonable agression" or just what they do??

No different in regards to cats being attacked in backyards by dogs, the dog is only displaying the same instincts, but because it's a dog is it supposed to have more self control? That just doesn't make sense.

This is also a very grey area using the words "other than vermin". How is a dog supposed to distinguish between a feral cat (which are vermin by definition) and someones pet.

Exactly. It's apparently ok for cats to hunt and kill animals but a dog is supposed to act like what? A human with rationale??

Edited April 18, 2012 by Aussie3

[ChloeEastwood]

Is this NSW we're talking about?

If so no, they shouldn't be declaring the dog dangerous and have no grounds to stand on.

Here is a link to the act:

http://www.legislati...+87+1998+cd+0+N

Scroll to section 16 and read 2b

(2) It is not an offence under this section if the incident occurred:

(a) as a result of the dog being teased, mistreated, attacked or otherwise provoked, or

(b) as a result of the person or animal trespassing on the property on which the dog was being kept, or

© as a result of the dog acting in reasonable defence of a person or property, or

(d) in the course of lawful hunting, or

(e) in the course of the working of stock by the dog or the training of the dog in the working of stock.

Either the Council doesn't understand the act they're enforcing or they're bluffing her which they often do.

ETA:

The section they are referring to is section 33 in regards to dangerous dogs:

33 Meaning of “dangerous”

(1) For the purposes of this Division, a dog is dangerous if it:

(a) has, without provocation, attacked or killed a person or animal (other than vermin), or

(b) has, without provocation, repeatedly threatened to attack or repeatedly chased a person or animal (other than vermin), or

© has displayed unreasonable aggression towards a person or animal (other than vermin), or(d) is kept or used for the purposes of hunting.

The attack would not be deemed unreasonable though based on section 16 and the definition of what an attack is.

But wouldn't almost killing the cat be classed as 'unreasonable aggression'?

Appreciate the help with this too, Cheers.

IMO yes killing another animal just for the sake of it is unreasonable aggression, I have always had dogs and no way would I think it was acceptable for any of them to kill an animal that wandered into my yard, I have to say I am a little shocked that people are saying yeah well that's what dogs do.

FWIW I don't like cats and think they should be indoors 24/7.

So when a cat stalks it's prey i.e. mouse, rat, native bird, small lizards & animals then kills it either instantly or slowly, plays with the corpse for it's amusement and possibly later consumes, you wouldn't say that's their natural instinct or have they been taught to? And shall it branded a Dangerous Aggressive animal?

That would be a substantial number of offenders.

In individual cases it's unknown what a dog(s) is capable of until the situation arises. I would be mortified and sadden if my dogs were the perpetrators but it's not beyond the realms of possibility. There are dogs out there inclined to exhibit their animal instinct if called upon for whatever circumstance.

[RiverStar-Aura]

I think when cats are in the picture, dogs will always cop the blame. Imagine if the situation was reversed and a cat killed a dog that wandered onto its property. I seriously doubt the cat would be "declared dangerous".

I just find the double standards outrageous. If someone reported a dog for killing wildlife all h3ll would break loose, but people don't seem to care if their cat kills a magpie or possum etc.

I own terriers but they wouldn't deliberately kill a cat. They'd play with it as a toy that moves and a thing to chase. That's just what they do!

Edited April 18, 2012 by RiverStar-Aura

[mantis]

I think when cats are in the picture, dogs will always cop the blame. Imagine if the situation was reversed and a cat killed a dog that wandered onto its property. I seriously doubt the cat would be "declared dangerous".

I just find the double standards outrageous. If someone reported a dog for killing wildlife all h3ll would break loose, but people don't seem to care if their cat kills a magpie or possum etc.

I own terriers but they wouldn't deliberately kill a cat. They'd play with it as a toy that moves and a thing to chase. That's just what they do!

Exactly.

It seems cats are allowed to do whatever they want & the cat & owners are never critisized, yet poor bloody dogs get hammered for acting like animals.

[Kajirin]

Well actually, nearly lost one of my Huskies to a cat. Big old roaming Tom cat attacked one of my dogs and he got rather sick had to have vet treatment to pull him through. Thinking he got a severe infection that went into his bloodstream. The old Tom came into the backyard and pounced on my dog, they tumbled around and eventually off an embankment, the cat was firmly holding on with teeth and claws /sigh. Never knew who he belonged to, but he was the resident meany picking on anything that moved.

I sort of laugh about it now after nearly 20 years...but at the time I was so angry.

[OSoSwift]

I have seen a Chihuahua extremely traumatised and badly damaged physically after an attack by a cat.

My dogs when I lived in town were fine with my cats not so with others. I would not like my dogs to kill any other animal, but if a cat got in the backyard and ended up dead, the only ones to be blamed are the idiot owners.

[minxy]

Kyojin absolutely loved our two cats. He was always very gentle with them. But I've seen him a few times where we've been sitting in the car and a strange cat has been around. His ears prick up, he starts licking his lips and he just stares at them, wanting to get at them. He just doesn't seem to see the link between our cats and other cats. So it wouldn't matter how used to our cats he was. If a strange cat wandered into our yard there's a very good chance it would be severely hurt. I can't do anything to prevent that, but the cat owner could.

[WExtremeG]

I have no doubt my GSD would kill a cat...which worries me as we have an indoor only cat that only ever gets to go outside when he escapes.

(but I'm going to start another topic on that)

I would be angry if my dog copped the blame for someone elses responsibility.

[Alyosha]

Having re-read the NSW sections, I think the Council would have a difficult time making a Dangerous Dog order. Don't forget that notice of intention to make such an order is given. This is the owner's time to object to the order.

As the Act has a lawful defence to an attack when the victim animal is tresspassing in the dog's yard, at s.16(2)(b) - it would be an obvious objection.

As for unreasonable aggression, it doesn't take an unreasonable amount of force for an average dog to kill a cat. One grab can certainly do it. And a few grabs or bites, even shaking, would be hard pushed to be labelled unreasonable. That is the purpose of subsection 16(2)(a), to allow dor reasonable dog behaviour within it's own environment.

The outcome for the trespassing animal is not necessarily a consideration in whether the level of aggression shown was unreasonable.

edit for clarity...

Edited April 19, 2012 by Alyosha