Chequeredblackdog Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Reggie is alomst 12 months olds and I am interested in giving him ago with a couple of dog sports (namely flyball and agility) He has done basic obedience and currently we attend obedience training weekly, where he is coming along nicely. We have also been working on his body awareness and general fitness/stamina. As a pup he had (unconfirmed) possible patella issues, which he seems to have grown out of, but he is still quite a soft dog. I was wondering if it would be worth getting him fully vetted? (eg, scanned, bloods, gaits, joints etc) before commencing anything that might put him under increased strain? I'm assuming this would give me an indicator if he is suseptible to future injuries/ problems or is unsuitable for certain sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Is Reggie desexed or not - I've read that delaying a desex (or not desexing) until a dog is about 18 months can help their bone strength. Though it's hard for me to say - since my AWL puppy farm dog bitsa was desexed at 8 weeks and seems fine doing agility at 3.5 years old. Otherwise - really not sure if a full vet work up would predict anything or not. Ie a full joint check, hip scoring under general anaesthetic (anything else you want to get done while he's there?), might indicate he's not suitable for jumping sport, but an all clear doesn't mean he wouldn't have problems either. Maybe less chance but not no chance. Same as the way footballers can break themselves and their joints. Maybe you could find a vet who is also into dog sports so understands the specific stresses and vulnerabilities, to do a check or at least answer your question. There's quite a few vets into agility. All you have to do to find them is show up at an agility trial to watch - and ask around. And if you bring your dog, you can get him used to the environment - it can be very exciting for a puppy or even an older dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chequeredblackdog Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 Thank you for that. Reggie is a Kelpie that came from the RSPCA, so he was desexed at around 10 weeks. So I take it you can take your dog to agility trials? I'll have to see if I can find out about any local(ish) agility trials, I live in Orange NSW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I would avoid the flyball due to the constant impact on the front legs. A poor gait can sometimes also be due to being unfit and lack of good muscle tone. Sport dogs need to be lean and have well nourished muscles, this is what helps. I've had my rottie with no hip sockets and shot elbows totter over agility equipment from time to time with no ill effects because we started slowly and did it at his pace. One thing to consider is conditioning and diet. Start him slowly, put him on a good fresh diet and do small amounts often to build up his body strength. This way too you will also know where his limits are without really exceeding them and causing pain. I have mine on Vets All Natural and use greyhound products such as Recharge and Muscle Pro powder to help and no problems at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Thank you for that. Reggie is a Kelpie that came from the RSPCA, so he was desexed at around 10 weeks. So I take it you can take your dog to agility trials? I'll have to see if I can find out about any local(ish) agility trials, I live in Orange NSW. Your dog has to be 18 months or over to compete in Agility trials & over 12 months to train for agility. If you go to This Link, it will tell you everything you need to know about trialling. It's on my own web page & I have put it together to help other first timers, as I had now idea in the world where to start when I wanted to trial. It was all double dutch to me at the time, but now it is all "old hat". Good luck...it is a fun sport & warning....it is very addictive. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chequeredblackdog Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) I've forgotten to check this thread Nekhbet- I didn't think about the strain on joints in regards to doing flyball. Is it really that bad for them? He LOVES chasing balls and would run all day after one (I try to limit 'ball-time') and I thought he would love Flyball. Is there a way to minimise damage or is it really best to avoid completely? He is fed a combo of raw and dry (Holistic Select)and is very lean. So far he seems to be the type of dog that runs all fat off. At last measurement (a couple of months ago) he was 59-60cm, and is roughly 20kg. We are working on building up his muscle. Is there any particular type of exercise that will help? He gets walked onlead, as well as having a couple of offleash stints a week at the dogpark. We also do daily training sessions that include bits of obedience, some balance/awareness, ball chasing, "treat hunting" or tugging. Sheena-I didn't know they had to be 18 months to trial in agility Thank you for the link, I've tried looking into agility before, but it found it all rather overwhelming. Edited April 18, 2012 by Chequeredblackdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Flyball isn't too hard on the dogs- we now have veterans divisions and we have quite a large number of 10+ year old dogs still coming out for competitions. That being said its the dogs that have been trained well (do nice box work and jump work) and don't over train that have lasted the distance. I have JUST started training my 13mth old kelpies on low jumps for flyball but they have been doing foundation work for agility and flyball since they were tiny. My eldest girl has done more damage playing fetch in the back yard than at flyball (still no idea how she managed to fracture a leg while she was house bound in season) but she is a silly Kelpie so thats as good an explanation as you can get. I would be going to a chiro and/or greyhound vet to make sure he is sound. If he does have any weaknesses you can moderate how much training you do. It also means you can start building a relationship with a vet that deals with performance dogs just in case you need them in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 what I dont like about flyball is the impact at the end of the run. When the dogs hit the board for the ball to come out, for me personally I wouldnt want my dogs doing it. If your dog LOVES balls why dont you look up training videos on www.leerburg.com and Michael Ellis/Bart Bellon on youtube for ideas on prey training in the mean time. The age limit is there because it is quite strenuous on the joints. As for muscle building I use Muscle Pro powder for my bitch that had muscle problems, she was also hideous to keep fat on and ball obsessed. She's paying for it now at 8 years old but the powder and Vets All Natural diet has really helped her get back into a young dog condition. Swimming is another great exercise, our younger dog we throw the ball into the water and let her swim out to retrieve it. Lower impact and it actually wears her out lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 The derret's (top competitors) don't let their dogs near equipment until they're about 2, and then only trial a while after that. Regardless of sport, all the top world competitors that I've heard talk all say they delay trialling and focus on motivation, foundation skills and relationships - and none of them seem TP trial young dogs. When I get a new pup, this will be my focus. Then they'll be able to learn any sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 There is a LOT you can do for foundation work while you make up your mind and a lot will help with conditioning/body awareness/motivation/understading for later. * Build up your reward system (this will be my main focus with next pup!) * Rear end awareness exercises - walk backwards, through a ladder, perchwork * chase games are great! * circle work * Focus forward/find your line * wobble board for balance and to get them used to uneven surfaces/seesaw movement (you can make a makeshift one at home with a board/plank and something underneath it) * solid understanding of basic positions/stay/release/recall * Retrieve * Hand touches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I've forgotten to check this thread Nekhbet- I didn't think about the strain on joints in regards to doing flyball. Is it really that bad for them? He LOVES chasing balls and would run all day after one (I try to limit 'ball-time') and I thought he would love Flyball. Is there a way to minimise damage or is it really best to avoid completely? He is fed a combo of raw and dry (Holistic Select)and is very lean. So far he seems to be the type of dog that runs all fat off. At last measurement (a couple of months ago) he was 59-60cm, and is roughly 20kg. We are working on building up his muscle. Is there any particular type of exercise that will help? He gets walked onlead, as well as having a couple of offleash stints a week at the dogpark. We also do daily training sessions that include bits of obedience, some balance/awareness, ball chasing, "treat hunting" or tugging. Sheena-I didn't know they had to be 18 months to trial in agility Thank you for the link, I've tried looking into agility before, but it found it all rather overwhelming. He is a big fellow! He is bigger than Kaos who is 57 cm and I only see a few bigger than him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canine fun sports Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Getting back to the original question (that seems to have branched out to foundation work - and that is a whole other issue): As a pup he had (unconfirmed) possible patella issues, which he seems to have grown out of, but he is still quite a soft dog. I was wondering if it would be worth getting him fully vetted? (eg, scanned, bloods, gaits, joints etc) before commencing anything that might put him under increased strain? I'm assuming this would give me an indicator if he is suseptible to future injuries/ problems or is unsuitable for certain sports. I certainly think that everyone should have their dog fully assessed before starting any serious agility (and probably some other dog sports, as well.) This is not to say that any negative results would preclude dogs from training and competition. I personally know a lot of dogs that have quite severe hip displacia that are competing at the highest level of agility and some in herding. But we should know about our dogs' physical condition before we put their bodies through the stresses and strains of competition. It allows us to alter there exercise program, etc accordingly. My advise would be a full check up with a vet that knows something about dog sports - either a vet involved in agility, or a greyhound vet. I do not think bloods are necessary, but a thorough musculo-skeletal examinination including hip radiographs are a definite recommendation, and in this case I would certainly get the patellas checked closely. If problems are found then you can get appropriate exercises for the dog to do to help strengthen the weaknesses. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 CBD - my young BC has a confirmed grade 2 luxating patella in at least her left hind leg and up until she needed resting for an another issue (a damaged shoulder) the patella caused her no issues as far as agility is concerned. She is no slouch and is in fact a very fast agility dog and it wasn't causing her any appreciable issue until she was rested. In her case it is felt that the muscles were keeping everything together and functioning correctly so was helping with the patella. There has been a small amount of pressure for surgery because she is an "athlete". If she was a pet its not at a level where they would normally operate unless it deteriorates and starts bothering her. At this stage we are just monitoring things and seeing how she gets on. The specialist however even at the current time is happy enough for me to partake in activities such as herding and we are slowly upping the agility. The bigger concern is how her shoulder holds up. In his view at least we know what is going on with the patella and it may or may not need doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chequeredblackdog Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) Wow! thank you for all that information! I am in no rush to launch him into a sport, I want him to enjoy whatever he does and for him to (hopefully) have few problems later in life, as foremost he is a pet :D I will definitely focus on his foundations (which in themselves sound fun!) Is there any books/websites etc that would help? (I'm a newbie at all this so will need as much help as I can get! ) Kavik- He is a big boy, probably closer to 59cm than 60cm. Though I could be a little off... he's a bit of a wriggle butt... As he is so lean and leggy (and has whopping big ears) I've had lots of people ask if he's crossed with something.... A sighthound has been suggested! :laugh: In regards to finding a sports/ greyhound vet, how would I go about that? I don't know any Greyhound people or really anyone in the area (Orange) who does dog sports. I'm taking my BC to the vet next thursday for a follow up appointment for her cruciate surgery. I was planning to take Reggie along to, maybe the vet will know where the Greyhound people go No harm in asking! Edited April 19, 2012 by Chequeredblackdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canine fun sports Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 In regards to finding a sports/ greyhound vet, how would I go about that? I don't know any Greyhound people or really anyone in the area (Orange) who does dog sports. I'm taking my BC to the vet next thursday for a follow up appointment for her cruciate surgery. I was planning to take Reggie along to, maybe the vet will know where the Greyhound people go No harm in asking! I have no idea about any of the vets out in Orange. Just talk to your own vet - if you let him know you are concerned about a thorough examination to find out any issues for "a future athlete" I am sure he will give your dog a thorough going over. And if he has a few breeders using that practice, they wil have the experience to get the HD radiographs done right the first time for a hip scoring. (They are VERY fussy about the positioning and labelling.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Cool video I just found with some foundation stuff and another one Edited April 23, 2012 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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