RubyStar Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Rubystar perhaps we should go buy a massive watermelon and stock up :laugh: Definitely! I'm gonna need it on Sunday! Hate cutting the bugger up, and de-seeding it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedazzledx2 Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 A tip to get them to drink. I buy small cheap cat food in tins...tuna is good. Do some training with your dog for a jackpot and feed the cat food in a bowl but retain a small amount and mix with water. Makes a tasty broth which my guys love :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Just to show how little Millie drinks. I forgot to put the water bowl out after I washed it, so the dogs were waterless for at least 12 hours, if not longer. When I realised, I panicked, put a fresh bowl out, it took Ruby some convincing to have a little drink, and Millie flat out refused. Wasn't until later that night she decided she was thirsty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 A tip to get them to drink. I buy small cheap cat food in tins...tuna is good. Do some training with your dog for a jackpot and feed the cat food in a bowl but retain a small amount and mix with water. Makes a tasty broth which my guys love :) Last night I boiled up some beef liver & lambs hearts to cut up for treats & normally the water left over, I would save & add to their kibble over the next few nights. But I tried putting just a small spoonful of the broth in some water & my girl drank the lot. So I thinking I might freeze the rest as ice cubes & take it along to trials to encourage her to drink while there. Also, I put a small dash of apple cider vinegar in my young boy's water & he immediately went to it & started drinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraNik Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 It depends on the dog and what we're doing. For OB/Rally, Jedi and Revan get fed before trials, usually half a meal. Ahsoka is fasted. For other dog sports - they all get fed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke W Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 LOL. Fed Barkly some chicken mince before the trial. First run was OK. Second run he lost focus and went sniffing twice during the run. Third run he was pretty much off with the fairies at the start line. I ran him out of the ring after the first jump So my results on feeding before a trial - inconclusive :D As an aside, I think I really need to have a good think about my whole trial routine. But that's for another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted April 22, 2012 Author Share Posted April 22, 2012 LOL. Fed Barkly some chicken mince before the trial. First run was OK. Second run he lost focus and went sniffing twice during the run. Third run he was pretty much off with the fairies at the start line. I ran him out of the ring after the first jump So my results on feeding before a trial - inconclusive :D As an aside, I think I really need to have a good think about my whole trial routine. But that's for another thread. Thanks for getting back. I am going to start feeding breakfast to her anyway, before a trial. From what I have read here, it's the right thing to do for her health & enjoyment even if it doesn't improve her performance. At training tomorrow night, I am going to try leaving her soccer ball at the finish line, but at training there is never an issue anyway...she goes almost perfect...little show-off :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Kind of off-topic Luke - but running two dogs I'm learning that they have very different "needs" when it comes to pre-run routine. I give Darcy plenty of time to physically warm up, and I can get away with it with her. So a walk for toilet, some circles, a good game of tug, some spins/backs up, some rear end stretches and put her over a practise jump or two if I can beforehand. A quick bark game before she goes into the ring and while she's in the ring (about the only reward you can get away with these days in the ring!) and into the run. Zee is very different, give her a very quick toilet run when we arrive, a very quick toilet again before the ring and a few minutes of warm-up, tug game and some verbal rev-up before we go into the ring, same bark game at the start. If I give her too much warm up she loses focus and ends up spending half her run gawking as she runs, no matter how focussed she might be while I've got a toy/food on me. They both get the same brekky but it's always very early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Does he work differently at training Luke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 I tried feeding a little before our trial as well and got a much better result, usually I fast them the morning but that morning I have him about a handful of food (about a third of his normal amount) and a quite a few treats warming up. He was alot more focused and 'with' me in the ring instead of stressing, it was probably a combination of things as well so I am not saying it worked. However we do have a flyball comp next weekend that I will be feeding both of them and seeing how we go as that will be a better indication of a different performance than in agility at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 On the day of a herding or agility trial, mine get a slightly smaller than usual brekky and I ensure it is given earlier than usual. They have plenty of drive for these sports, so not being hungry does not effect their work. For an obedience trial they get a much smaller brekky as their drive is lower for obedience and every little bit of created keenness helps. :D During the trialling day if they appear a little flat they get Nutrigel. For my bitch that is a less than an ideal drinker, she gets purple carrot juice the morning before and offered during the day. She will drink that if put in front of her and it keeps her hydrated and provides energy... very healthy also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke W Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Kind of off-topic Luke - but running two dogs I'm learning that they have very different "needs" when it comes to pre-run routine. I give Darcy plenty of time to physically warm up, and I can get away with it with her. So a walk for toilet, some circles, a good game of tug, some spins/backs up, some rear end stretches and put her over a practise jump or two if I can beforehand. A quick bark game before she goes into the ring and while she's in the ring (about the only reward you can get away with these days in the ring!) and into the run. Zee is very different, give her a very quick toilet run when we arrive, a very quick toilet again before the ring and a few minutes of warm-up, tug game and some verbal rev-up before we go into the ring, same bark game at the start. If I give her too much warm up she loses focus and ends up spending half her run gawking as she runs, no matter how focussed she might be while I've got a toy/food on me. They both get the same brekky but it's always very early. I usually do 5-10 minutes of walking on a lead, heal work, spins, quick downs, start line practice...all with food rewards (in an attempt to get him revved up). He probably gets 10 treats before I get in the ring. I think this is part of my problem. He's not a great tugger. Does he work differently at training Luke? Yup. He's much more subdued at trials. At a trial, he's most drivey after a run to get back to his treat bag I think I've not been very successful at fading food rewards at it's contributed to quite a few problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke W Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Kind of off-topic Luke - but running two dogs I'm learning that they have very different "needs" when it comes to pre-run routine. I give Darcy plenty of time to physically warm up, and I can get away with it with her. So a walk for toilet, some circles, a good game of tug, some spins/backs up, some rear end stretches and put her over a practise jump or two if I can beforehand. A quick bark game before she goes into the ring and while she's in the ring (about the only reward you can get away with these days in the ring!) and into the run. Zee is very different, give her a very quick toilet run when we arrive, a very quick toilet again before the ring and a few minutes of warm-up, tug game and some verbal rev-up before we go into the ring, same bark game at the start. If I give her too much warm up she loses focus and ends up spending half her run gawking as she runs, no matter how focussed she might be while I've got a toy/food on me. They both get the same brekky but it's always very early. That's interesting, maybe I should try minimal warm-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 (edited) Yup. He's much more subdued at trials. At a trial, he's most drivey after a run to get back to his treat bag I think I've not been very successful at fading food rewards at it's contributed to quite a few problems. IMHO - it's not about fading food rewards but teaching them that x + y = drive satisfaction. If a dog is running out of the ring to self reward I'd be asking why they don't see me as part of the reward experience and why they don't understand how the reward experience works. I see a lot of dogs that try to self reward or drop out of drive because they don't understand what is expected of them and because of this they get frustrated, especially when they don't see you and what you are asking them to do as the key to getting drive satisfaction. Not saying that is definitely what is wrong with Barkly, but I think the problems you are having sounds like part of a bigger issue. ETA: On minimal warm ups etc, I definitely agree with Jess it differs from dog to dog. Daisy is a dog with a small 'drive tank' - she will run out of drive quickly so I don't want to use it all up by warming her up. She definitely works the best when I don't over work her before hand. Edited April 22, 2012 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 The other thing I would wonder is, why is the dog showing drive outside of the ring but not inside the ring? This is something I've had an issue with and it can be as subtle (or not so subtle) as our body language and what the dog has been conditioned to cue off. If I am super exciting and animated in training, but stiff and shaking with nerves in the ring, I am not going to look like the same fun person who my dog knows equals drive satisfaction in training. It could also be due to how we use rewards in training and if we are actually rewarding the dog for being out of drive rather than teaching them we will give them drive satisfaction - I see this all the time too! People who focus on training lots of technical stuff so the dog can do it but haven't spent any time building a foundation where the dog understands the reward experience and how to maintain drive and focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 I have two very different dogs as well. Lewis is a get him out stretch his legs, show him where the treats are, maybe ask for a sit that is it. Less is more, much more and gets doughy and looses focus. Rommi needs some warm up, positions, little bit of heeling, some games and spins, some reving etc but she really needs to be given treats to get her confidence up and keep it there. Don't warm up enough, dog doesn't work and she gets worried. NEither of mine get fed in the morning, but I am certainly going to consider a small meal next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Kind of off-topic Luke - but running two dogs I'm learning that they have very different "needs" when it comes to pre-run routine. I give Darcy plenty of time to physically warm up, and I can get away with it with her. So a walk for toilet, some circles, a good game of tug, some spins/backs up, some rear end stretches and put her over a practise jump or two if I can beforehand. A quick bark game before she goes into the ring and while she's in the ring (about the only reward you can get away with these days in the ring!) and into the run. Zee is very different, give her a very quick toilet run when we arrive, a very quick toilet again before the ring and a few minutes of warm-up, tug game and some verbal rev-up before we go into the ring, same bark game at the start. If I give her too much warm up she loses focus and ends up spending half her run gawking as she runs, no matter how focussed she might be while I've got a toy/food on me. They both get the same brekky but it's always very early. I usually do 5-10 minutes of walking on a lead, heal work, spins, quick downs, start line practice...all with food rewards (in an attempt to get him revved up). He probably gets 10 treats before I get in the ring. I think this is part of my problem. He's not a great tugger. Does he work differently at training Luke? Yup. He's much more subdued at trials. At a trial, he's most drivey after a run to get back to his treat bag I think I've not been very successful at fading food rewards at it's contributed to quite a few problems. Also, when, where and how often are you rewarding at training? I have had problems with running out of the ring and also running straight to reward bag. What I am doing now is at training rewarding from me instead of the bag on the ground - treats and toys in pocket/tucked in pants, and rewarding more in the middle of the run and not only at the end (ie making sure I reward contacts, weaves, difficult turns/sequences) so that he doesn't see the reward as only coming from outside the ring/at the end of a run. First trial back was successful and he was focused and stayed in the ring for all 4 runs. Also I find if my training/competing ratio is out it is a problem, so I am making sure I get to a lot more training sessions than trials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I fed breakfast both days this weekend (barf patty mixed into slop with water) and I am a definite convert! Trixie has only ever done single trials and tends to get a bit flat after the second run, she was running consistently hard all weekend, late into the afternoon, even on the second day - which I wasn't expecting, considering she is a terrier I also fed her watermelon throughout the day and think this helped a lot with her energy levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 I fed breakfast both days this weekend (barf patty mixed into slop with water) and I am a definite convert! Trixie has only ever done single trials and tends to get a bit flat after the second run, she was running consistently hard all weekend, late into the afternoon, even on the second day - which I wasn't expecting, considering she is a terrier I also fed her watermelon throughout the day and think this helped a lot with her energy levels. I'll have to see if my girl will eat watermelon too. I will try her on the seedless one so I don't have to pick all the seeds out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Yep I used the seedless one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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