Does This Sound Right To You?

[Nekhbet]

I don't like that idea personally and owning a pedigree dog I prefer "all" the rights associated with owning dog of a registered pedigree with the freedom to make the choices with "my" dog as I see fit. If a breeder wants control over my dog, how about they pay half it's care and upkeep too

I don't understand your point ... no one is forcing you to purchase a limited reg dog as the only option. If you want main register, go buy it and do as you want I'm sure you'll find a breeder who will sell you whatever you want with main reg. As far as making choices with 'your' dog as you see fit, the trading post is littered with people with your attitude. See how far that it got them. And you wonder why people put dogs on limited reg. You should do what is in the interest of the dog and its lines, your attitude seems to reduce animals to nothing more then an object. Will you throw it out when you get sick of it or need to update the model?

And this is why any dogs I breed will come with big fat contracts, you decide to neglect the dog or breed willy nilly you will have a knock on your door. What is left of the bloodlines won't be ruined like others that are now dead due to your attitude.

[rusty&biscuit]

Good luck with your search on the puppy :D I am not much help really, as I have only been in the purebred dog world for 4 years. But if you don't feel comfortable with this breeder, find another - the human instinct is fairly strong and if it doesn't feel right, run in the other direction! I am SO lucky with my breeders. Rusty I got from where I live, but have a great relationship still with his breeders, and they have helped us so much! Then my schip who I shipped up from SA, I was very lucky with his breeder too...we still keep in touch and she is a lovely lady :)

Do you mind me asking what breed you're getting? :)

[Christina]

Phone Dogs SA & ask if the breeder is registered with them.

They will say yes or no.

If you feel the dog is what you want & everything else apart from the registration thing sounds ok why not go & visit. The pups may be wonderful & the environment fantastic.

Then if you are interested in a puppy ask them this question.

On here people can only guess why. Who really knows.

[Dame Aussie]

Phone Dogs SA & ask if the breeder is registered with them.

They will say yes or no.

If you feel the dog is what you want & everything else apart from the registration thing sounds ok why not go & visit. The pups may be wonderful & the environment fantastic.

Then if you are interested in a puppy ask them this question.

On here people can only guess why. Who really knows.

Totally agree, worth a visit. Good luck!

[m-sass]

So why haven't the ANKC addressed this supposedly "major issue" demanding that pet puppies be registered on limited,

How would they enforce that? I don't think they could.

Giving breeders the option of selling pet quality puppies on limited is better than some of the alternatives for breeders that produce some pups that are not quite up to breeding standard.

I totally agree that pups not quite up to breeding standard is the purpose of the limited register, however not all breeders use the limited register for that reason and a simple test of that is asking a breeder if the pups sold on limited are lacking in breed quality and the answer is usually something like this

Edited April 8, 2012 by m-sass

[RiverStar-Aura]

I'm only a pet owner but as far as I know, isn't the main register needed if a person wishes to show their dog?

Kirah was purchased on limited because as my breeder showed and told me, there are certain things that make her not show quality (ie she has too much white on her). There were also only two bitches born in the litter and the other buyer was after a show girl and she was sold on main register.

I don't mind that my girl was on limited because as I wanted a pet, it would've seemed silly to have her on main register.

[Dame Aussie]

We bought Lili on mains and never intended on showing or breeding her, we could have, she isn't a mismark, but we were just after a pet. I wouldn't necessarily discount a breeder with a whole litter on mains, I would need to research and meet them first, but that's JMO.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Aussie3

[m-sass]

What annoys me more than anything else is breeders who sell on mains "as they should" is people questioning their ethics for selling on mains, WTF is this all about

Everyone has their ethics questioned at some point, that's just life in dogs. The key point at issue is whether your practices stand up to reasonable questioning or not.

There are people who sell on mains to people that everyone else will not sell to, and that is not something you could describe as being in the dogs' best interests.

And yes there are people that will not sell on main to God himself but that doesn't make selling on main to anyone who comes along some kind of virtue. It's just a signal, among all the other signals out there about which breeders you can envisage buying from and which you cannot.

When it boils down to comments like this in a gerneralised sense:

I would run a mile from any breeder who sells the whole litter on main register.

The point I am making is that people start to believe that the limited reg routine is how things are supposed be done which it isn't, there is absoultely nothing other than a trend set by breeders I term control freaks in the scheme of ethical breeding practices that requires pups for the pet market to registered on limited unless there is serious breed fault evident at the time of registration would be an exception.

Personally I would be more cautious of breeders selling supposedly quality pups on limited, are they perhaps not breedworthy examples with non disclosed faults? or if they are breedworthy examples on limited, the breeder is already pulling stunts to restrict your rights of owning a pup with a registered pedigree.

I disagree with assumptions that caution should prevail in regard to breeders selling on mains and would advise prospective puppy buyers myself personally to the contrary.

[Pheebs]

We bought Lili on mains and never intended on showing or breeding her, we could have, she isn't a mismark, but we were just after a pet. I wouldn't necessarily discount a breeder with a whole litter on mains, I would need to research and meet them first, but that's JMO.

Exactly the same for us - and we did just that :) (It was also inferred by a select few two years after the fact that I was supporting the "indiscriminate breeding practices" of shoddy registered breeders by doing so ) As far as I'm concerned, I was doing the right thing in following the advice I was given at the time - going to a breeder registered with Dogs NSW. I naively believed that if you were registered you were above reproach. Would I choose this breeder again? Depends. Based on reputation alone there's another breeder that I would just love to have one of their pups. I love my current girl dearly and she's *touch wood* given us no cause for concerns health-wise thus far, but she's an absolute loon and exhausting so I'm not sure that's an avenue I'd want to go down again anyway :laugh:

Edited April 8, 2012 by Pheebs

[m-sass]

I don't like that idea personally and owning a pedigree dog I prefer "all" the rights associated with owning dog of a registered pedigree with the freedom to make the choices with "my" dog as I see fit. If a breeder wants control over my dog, how about they pay half it's care and upkeep too

I don't understand your point ... no one is forcing you to purchase a limited reg dog as the only option. If you want main register, go buy it and do as you want I'm sure you'll find a breeder who will sell you whatever you want with main reg. As far as making choices with 'your' dog as you see fit, the trading post is littered with people with your attitude. See how far that it got them. And you wonder why people put dogs on limited reg. You should do what is in the interest of the dog and its lines, your attitude seems to reduce animals to nothing more then an object. Will you throw it out when you get sick of it or need to update the model?

And this is why any dogs I breed will come with big fat contracts, you decide to neglect the dog or breed willy nilly you will have a knock on your door. What is left of the bloodlines won't be ruined like others that are now dead due to your attitude.

If a person isn't worthy enough to sell to on mains, they are not worthy enough to sell them a pup at all is my philosophy. Limited reg doesn't protect the dog from the array of other dispicable events that can happen when selling to the wrong people, willy nilly breeding possibilities is only a minor part of the big picture IMHO

[jr_inoz]

The DogsSA website with breeder prefixes on them is hopelessly out of date. I don't think it has been touched for over 6 years. IF you want to know if a breeder has their prefix registered in the state, ring DogsSA - they will tell you.

In some breeds, the breeder does produce puppies that are all of good quality - certainly the case with two or three breeders in my breed in this state. They could all certainly go on main register. Costs the breeder no more or less. Same price to register on either.

I know of one case where the breeder decided to run one puppy on, put the other in another show home to run on and sold the third as a pet on mains. The breeder caught up with that owner a few months later to see that the puppy had matured into a stunning dog. The owners were encouraged to join DogsSA. They did and started coming to shows. Their dog is having some success. They are hooked. This is great for the future of our breed.

Don't be frightened if a breeder wants to sell all puppies on mains. They will do it if their puppies are of good enough quality. It doesn't mean they are an unethical breeder.

[Topoftheheap]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum and I was wondering if you could all help to clarify something for me.

My partner and I have recently started looking for a new dog to add to our family. We had a look at all the breeders listed on the DOL puppy page for our chosen breed and contacted a breeder in our state via Email. We have since received an email back from the breeder saying that all of their pups will be offered on the main register. Is this normal? We have no interest in breeding or showing and I thought (maybe wrongly?) that most breeders would sell dogs on limited register to pet homes to stop BYB and puppy farmers. Also, when I looked up the breeders prefix on Dogs SA they can't be found. Am I right to be feeling uncomfortable about this?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Breeders don't sell on limited reg to stop BYB's and puppy farmers that's the reason given to excuse the practice of controlling someone elses property. They sell on limited reg to prevent you breeding with their bloodlines for two reasons generally. One reason especially in the show scene, they don't want to get beaten by another kennel establishing a better line on the original kennels dogs, and the other reason is producing substandard progeny with their dogs in the pedigree so inexperienced breeders don't use a good male over a poor bitch and produce poor pups for people to say that XYZ kennel's stud is a poor producer.

Limited reg is about "control" for the most part, to control who has the rights of owning a pedigree dog and who doesn't for my opinion on the matter. A quality litter should be sold on mains and no rules within the ANKC structure suggests otherwise, the limited reg thing is merely a trend for control freaks misconstrude as ethical breeding practices directed towards people naive enough to accept it.

I sell my pup on limited to try to protect them from being used by BYB - unfortunately I failed and have been screwed over a pup that was sold on a desex contract on limited registration. Personally I don't give a fat rats ares if you think that makes me a control freak for trying to protect my pups from pricks who only see them as a cash cow...

Your comment is very distasteful and disgusting..

I second that.

[Jumabaar]

What annoys me more than anything else is breeders who sell on mains "as they should" is people questioning their ethics for selling on mains, WTF is this all about

Everyone has their ethics questioned at some point, that's just life in dogs. The key point at issue is whether your practices stand up to reasonable questioning or not.

There are people who sell on mains to people that everyone else will not sell to, and that is not something you could describe as being in the dogs' best interests.

And yes there are people that will not sell on main to God himself but that doesn't make selling on main to anyone who comes along some kind of virtue. It's just a signal, among all the other signals out there about which breeders you can envisage buying from and which you cannot.

When it boils down to comments like this in a gerneralised sense:

I would run a mile from any breeder who sells the whole litter on main register.

The point I am making is that people start to believe that the limited reg routine is how things are supposed be done which it isn't, there is absoultely nothing other than a trend set by breeders I term control freaks in the scheme of ethical breeding practices that requires pups for the pet market to registered on limited unless there is serious breed fault evident at the time of registration would be an exception.

Personally I would be more cautious of breeders selling supposedly quality pups on limited, are they perhaps not breedworthy examples with non disclosed faults? or if they are breedworthy examples on limited, the breeder is already pulling stunts to restrict your rights of owning a pup with a registered pedigree.

I disagree with assumptions that caution should prevail in regard to breeders selling on mains and would advise prospective puppy buyers myself personally to the contrary.

IWhat about quality pups that are carriers? I can disclose that a pup is a carrier for X disease but that doesn't mean that the puppy buyer understands genetics and what that means. Thus anything that is a carrier for something would be on the limited register. If someone approached me later wanting to breed/show then I would look at the pup and see if it turned out nicely and discuss any health problems that don't affect their pup, but would need to be thought about when choosing a mate.

Also litters might turn out nice but one of the boys is cryptorchid and there has been a few other family members with that problem so the breeder decides to end that line- why would they sell those pups on mains and perpetuate the problem??? Someone who has a bitch on the limited register from that litter doesn't need anything disclosed to them if they are buying a pet on limited because it really doesn't affect them.

I can see plenty of reasons why stunning dogs end up on the limited register- and not all of them about being an elitist!!

I wonder if people who advertise that all go on mains are wearing rose tinted glasses and genuinely believe all their dogs are show worthy. Or if they are confident they chose amazing owners who won't abuse the rights and know what a good healthy example of the breed is and only breed ethically.

Or if they have had a litter that is genetically important for the breed so they want to make sure that as much of the genetics is preserved. Or are they hoping that people will show their pups a few times because it was actually a really stunning litter that they want to show off!!

I guess the answer is to ask the breeder. If you get the heebie-jeebies run like the wind!! If they can give you a well thought out answer then it proves that they know what they are doing.

ETA- I personally limit any sold as pets. It doesn't mean I won't discuss putting them on the main register at a later date if they want to show/breed if the dog is quality but I like to keep informed so this way I know if their intentions have changed.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Jumabaar