aussielover Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 If you consider your dog a child, surely you would give it the same medical attention that a child requires? That includes regular visits to the doctor, emergency treatment when required, DIAGNOSIS and treatment of any medical condition the child should develop etc Surely you would not chose to euthanase your child based on a 3 day undiagnosed illness? I do not even consider my dog as "my child", she is a valued family member for sure, but she is a dog and treated as such. I find she is happier this way with her needs AS A DOG being met, rather than being forced to be something she is not. Just my opinion though... If she was so ill that she was not eating or drinking and not able to recognise me, she would be immediately taken to a specialist center for a full work up. In fact this actually happened to me, luckily with a happy ending, the specialist center was able to save the life of my dog who otherwise would have suffered an agonizing and horrible death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bundyburger Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I love my beagles. I even joke and say they are my kids. But they are not. They are not my children, they are my beagles. My dogs. My animals. When you call them your child , it completely wrong to me. I actually cringe. We can love our dogs completely, as strong as any love we have known, but they are always dogs, always animals. Also, all dogs should be able to be separated from theor owners without anxiety, without stress. If your dog can't be separated from you without displaying signs of anxiety, there is an issue. I agree with all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atanquin Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I lost one of my dogs at an after hours vet hospital. The care they gave her and the compassion they showed to me was second to none even though they had never seen me or her before. There was nothing they could have done to save her but they tried and gave her comfort in her last hours. Please don't condemn all vets by one bad experience. THIS Wen we had to put our boy kovu down our vet was in tears just as much as we where they all sent us a card personal written and signed to say tey where sorry for our loss. They way they are with zorro and my horses they are just brilliant. But then the other vet clinic in town are hopeless and sooooo rude !!!!!!! You just have to find a good one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnauzer Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 A dog is first and foremost a dog - and it should be appreciated in all its beauty, dignity and intelligence. It is not a child and never will be. I think you have come to the wrong forum to air your grievances against the veterinary profession. My vets could not be more professional, compassionate and caring - they are at the moment caring for a cruelty case for us, and I would not want that dog to be anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 (edited) Can I ask exactly what the vet did that you consider wrong and uncaring? You were offered an alternative for Percy to go to a hospital where more would and could be done - you declined and agreed for Percy to stay where he was. You also elected for Percy to be put to sleep after this time in hospital, without having his condition worked up to find out what was wrong. Percy was given a humane, lethal injection in an appropriate manner, through an IV catheter. Lethabarb is an anaesthetic agent. I fail to see what the Vet actually did that was so wrong and uncaring. Actually the vet only mentioned a 24 hour hospital after I said I would take Percy home, and she frankly made it sound like not a necessary thing. You insist on critising my every action and I am quite capable of blaming myself. The Lethabarb injection was painful, and you are incapable of understanding that. You are exactly the kind of vet I do NOT want to have to deal with. Good thing I'm not a Vet then. I haven't critisized your every action. I initially offered you an explanation from someone who works in the industry to try and put your mind at rest and explain to you why some things may have been. And my question about what the vet did that was so wrong is a genuine question. I still fail to see what the Vet actually did wrong. You keep saying the lethabarb injection was painful, but your alternative seems to be to withhold vet treatment and allow them to die a slow and more painful death at home. Edited April 7, 2012 by stormie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allerzeit Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 My new child is smarter, happier and more fulfilled than the average pet because he is given every opportunity to be human. That is seriously the most bizarre statement I have ever read on these forums - in almost 8 years of membership! He's not a human - he's a DOG! But hey, I'm a breeder so I apparently treat my dogs like stupid lower life forms so that they're easier to manage! :laugh: My dogs are anything but stupid, but I can assure you, they are definitely NOT human - strange, that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheebs Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 (edited) I'm so very sorry for your loss - even in the "right" circumstances it is still a tragic - I could not imagine suffering the loss of a furrychild that I had only shared my life with for 1 year - it is truly unfair. Not much to say really other than I truly do sympathise - I took my 11 year old girl to an emergency vet after she went "crazy" (we received her brain tumour diagnosis only two weeks prior so whilst we knew the situation, we thought we had another 6 months with her - I was also furious that my calls had been unanswered all day as I had some concerns and both canine neurologists had taken annual leave at the same time). In this time between admitting her and having them put in the canula, I heard her screaming in the back area whilst the staff were attending to other reception-duties (I understand it was an emergency vet and there were probably equally important phone calls coming in, but hearing her scream was heartbreaking). I knew what we were there to do, I simply wanted confirmation that I was doing the right thing. I advised that I wanted 5 minutes of time with her to say our goodbyes. 15-20 minutes later (she was highly distressed, whimpering and we had to pin her down to the ground as she was going beserk and chasing something that simply wasn't there) we still were waiting for the vet to check back in. Didn't happen. What we did get however were two separate cleaners on two separate occasions walking in to empty the bio-hazard and other waste bins and asking us if everything was okay and why were we crying? No it isn't okay and I don't really want to talk about it with the cleaning staff) They asked me how I planned on paying prior to PTS and quite frankly the whole experience was incredibly distasteful. I understand your reluctance to trust a vet again, but would advise that you do what we did - vote with your feet and never go back to that vet. Once you've lost trust in a particular practice or veterinarian - that's fair enough, but to tar them all with the same brush is doing no-one any favours (let alone your new furry child). Perhaps home-visits might be the way to go? Wishing you all the best and a long happy future together :) Edited April 7, 2012 by Pheebs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bundyburger Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 My new child is smarter, happier and more fulfilled than the average pet because he is given every opportunity to be human. That is seriously the most bizarre statement I have ever read on these forums - in almost 8 years of membership! He's not a human - he's a DOG! But hey, I'm a breeder so I apparently treat my dogs like stupid lower life forms so that they're easier to manage! :laugh: My dogs are anything but stupid, but I can assure you, they are definitely NOT human - strange, that! Agreed. If we wanted them to be children, we'd HAVE children!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuddleDuck Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 This quote by John Holmes keeps springing to mind "A dog is not 'almost human' and I know of no greater insult to the canine race than to describe it as such' Dogs are wonderful BECAUSE they are dogs! All those wonderful doggy behaviours, unconditional love, waggly tails and amazing dogsonalities. My dogs are treated as members of the family by our whole, extended family, but they are far happier doing dog things like chasing a ball, rolling in mud and going all sorts of feral when we take them on holidays with us to the snow each year than playing with fisher price toys like our daughter does. They show amazing levels of intelligence and compassion and bring us joy daily. It is no insult to call them dogs, but a massive compliment to an amazing species As for your vet experiences, I couldn't agree more with all of stormie's posts. I'm not a vet but worked as a vet nurse for 5 years and have held hundreds of paws as they took their last breath. I believe euthanasia is a gift we can give our beloved pets when all other options are exhausted. Though it would break my heart I would not hesitate to do so if my dogs were suffering and my vet and specialists could do no more. In one of your posts you mentioned costs-can I suggest pet health insurance for your new dog? We have it do we will never be in the position of having to make the decision to PTS for financial reasons, after my brothers dog racked up a $16,000 vet bill for severe heat stroke (he survived thanks to some amazing specialists!!) It gives me massive peace of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I've had anaesthetic injected directly into the vein through an IV line without any pre-anaesthetic medication and I can assure you - it wasn't painful. But, I think we're just wasting our time. Stick around or don't stick around P, but you won't see much talk of children. Beloved dogs yes, not humans in fur coats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty&biscuit Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I am so sorry for your loss, I really am, I lost a dog too young as well. I am however very offended that by treating my dogs and dogs, that I think they are lower life forms and inconviniences. I love them to death, heck, they do so much for me. They keep me fit, they make me smile, make me happy. They can sleep on my bed if they like, but only when I say so. And funnily enough, one is a small dog who does not think like a human and can be left alone without stressing! Doesn't mean he doesn't love me, because he does. I have experienced first hand a dog treated like a child, and a dog treated like a dog, in the same family. The 'child' was the most anxious, nervous wreck of a horrible little thing. Ended up being run over by a car. Their next dog, I helped them train, is one of the most well adjusted dogs I have met. He is treated like a dog of the 21st century, not a child, and is so happy - not like their previous dog. Although I don't agree with his methods, I suggest you watch Caesar Millan. Or at least read the book "The Other End of The Leash", it is excellent. If you're dog is happy and well adjusted being a child, that is fine. But please don't assume that because I don't treat my dog like a human being that I love him any less than you love yours :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty&biscuit Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 This quote by John Holmes keeps springing to mind "A dog is not 'almost human' and I know of no greater insult to the canine race than to describe it as such' Dogs are wonderful BECAUSE they are dogs! All those wonderful doggy behaviours, unconditional love, waggly tails and amazing dogsonalities. My dogs are treated as members of the family by our whole, extended family, but they are far happier doing dog things like chasing a ball, rolling in mud and going all sorts of feral when we take them on holidays with us to the snow each year than playing with fisher price toys like our daughter does. They show amazing levels of intelligence and compassion and bring us joy daily. It is no insult to call them dogs, but a massive compliment to an amazing species EXACTLY what I was trying to say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brennan's Mum Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Finally, pets are the new children. And I avoided using the word earlier because this is my most important point. My new child is smarter, happier and more fulfilled than the average pet because he is given every opportunity to be human. He is also completely calm and not anxious because he has been brought up so well. No insecurities at all. Laugh all you want, this subject renews my view that breeders and vets treat animals as stupid lower life forms because they are easier to manage that way. Breeds like Maltese cannot live without people (just the hair trimming alone!). It is our duty to give them the best possible life. Our new child has a very large vocabulary (no, not tone of voice and behavioural habit, but instant memory of the sounds of many words), the ability to plan and play complex tricks on us, and share a joke or emotion which is much more than fitting into a pack or learned response for rewards. The new cruelty is to treat an animal as stupid and inconvenient – I think many posters fit this description without realising it.'' How insulting . Whilst I sympathise with how hard it is to lose a beloved family member, I do believe the above quote is incredibly insulting to members of this forum. You do not know what any one else on this forum has been through for their pets. How can you see right to assume just because you are not being supported in your 'Vets= evil' mindset that the members of this forum do not care for or love their dogs, or think their dogs 'stupid'. From time to time members of this forum may fight or disagree- but the one thing you can't deny is that we all love and care for our dogs. If you care to read more of the forum you will see the many different ways people here include their pets into their daily lives. I'm not a vet, nor am I a breeder, but your insinuation that they treat animals like 'stupid lower life forms' is just rude and insulting to both the vets/ breeders and to their animals. I hope you find some peace, and I hope that you can take some of the sound advice you have been given here, and will not put your new dog at risk because of some personal vendetta against one vet clinic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeimMe Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I have two dogs, my darling Weim who I've had for 11 years (I swear she understands everything I say) and my livewire of a crossbreed pup. Both are much loved family members who share our homes and lives. But they aren't children...they are dogs and are appreciated just for their doggy selves. They like to do doggy things, like roll in detestable things if given the chance and sniff other dogs butts by way of greeting. They will happily scarf down their own vomit if they wolf down their dinner too fast and delight in the odd snack of chicken poop if the chance presents itself. The young pup likes to hump his bed and is obsessed with dirty socks and my Weim will steal and eat used tissues. I also have a child. Thankfully, she doesn't behave like that and neither do my dogs like to play Barbies or knit. Dogs are not children, and children are not dogs. In much the same way that I am neither a pony or a dinosaur, a dog is not a human child. That's just reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I have two dogs, my darling Weim who I've had for 11 years (I swear she understands everything I say) and my livewire of a crossbreed pup. Both are much loved family members who share our homes and lives. But they aren't children...they are dogs and are appreciated just for their doggy selves. They like to do doggy things, like roll in detestable things if given the chance and sniff other dogs butts by way of greeting. They will happily scarf down their own vomit if they wolf down their dinner too fast and delight in the odd snack of chicken poop if the chance presents itself. The young pup likes to hump his bed and is obsessed with dirty socks and my Weim will steal and eat used tissues. I also have a child. Thankfully, she doesn't behave like that and neither do my dogs like to play Barbies or knit. Dogs are not children, and children are not dogs. In much the same way that I am neither a pony or a dinosaur , a dog is not a human child. That's just reality. Love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redangel Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I have just spent a few hours cutting and trimming the coat of the lower life forms I live with commonly called poodles. They have just enjoyed a fish & vegetable mix for dinner. Currently these lower life forms are sitting beside me at the computer begging for some of the cheezels I am eating. Tonight they will most likely go to sleep on my bed. They enjoy many perks of being house dwelling dogs. Tomorrow they will probably go outside when i hang out the washing and find some bird poo to roll in. Yes they are highly regarded in the dog world as intelligent but lets face it they are dogs! I need not explain to the dog people why they roll in bird poo. Dont think my kids would be caught dead doing the same... :laugh: No behaviorist would condone promoting a dog as a pseudo child. Quite frankly I dont see the OP as a person who cares to agree with any authority on a subject....they seem to hold themselves as a sum of all knowledge based on owning a dog for under a year and having lost it under questionable circumstances which frankly they created by deciding they knew best. The OP has made it clear that they are not affected by grief. Well personally I am......grief that a poor dog has been rescued into a situation where it seems should ill health befall it it will not be taken for treatment by a professional it so deserves. I pray that this dog doesnt suffer a cruciate or a fracture in its life or such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bundyburger Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Dogs are not children, and children are not dogs. In much the same way that I am neither a pony or a dinosaur, a dog is not a human child. That's just reality. This has to be the BEST three lines I have read on DOL this year. Absolutely gold, but so true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Dogs are not children, and children are not dogs. In much the same way that I am neither a pony or a dinosaur, a dog is not a human child. That's just reality. This has to be the BEST three lines I have read on DOL this year. Absolutely gold, but so true. Second that!! Sooo funny!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 (edited) Your DOG is a dog, your car is a car, you house is a house, etc etc, its just a fact :laugh: I would like to know who you rescued your second dog from, and wether they know you don't plan on vet treatment for it. You have already pts one dog with no diagnosis, wonder how long this one will get. Edited April 7, 2012 by juice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 (edited) Percynality, I'm very sorry for your loss, especially when little Percy was so young. I'm just wondering if you would explain what you mean when you say you give your new dog every opportunity to be human? I'm interested to know what kind of things that involves. I'm also wondering whether you know the previous owners of your new dog, was he raised in a similar manner to how you now treat him for his first year or so? Edited April 7, 2012 by Saxonpup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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