Vets And Euthanasia

[Percynality]

It is nearly a year to the day we asked our vet to euthanize our beloved Percy who was only over a year old and we don’t know what was wrong. The handling of our child’s illness and the final injection has left us scarred and concerned for our new child, also a 1 year old Maltese.

Percy was suddenly ill at the start of Good Friday 2011, and we took him to the nearest available vet a few suburbs away considering the long weekend is the time that everything is closed. Over 3 days the vet basically did nothing but put him on a drip. I now think the vet simply was covering for the long weekend and didn’t care much at all. What I would like to discuss is how uncaring vets are.

Firstly, we should never have left Percy overnight. The back of a clinic has no comfort, nothing is familiar in fact it’s downright creepy and a highly bonded pet like a Maltese is going to be in such distress that overnight stays cannot possibly be good.

Secondly, we asked for euthanasia because Percy was not even drinking, did not really recognise us and we did not know what to do. But we attended the injection and were horrified – we held him while the vet flushed the drip and then our child screamed in terror with the green injection. I can never remove from my mind the honest truth that our Percy’s last moment was terror. The vet didn’t even seem to notice. In my view, Percy knew what the injection was for and I feel I did not give him the most compassionate treatment even though I had intended a calm gentle passing away.

I can’t overstate that I am sickened about the veterinary profession. Our new adopted child will never go to a vet. Far better to pass away in my arms than days of distress with strangers.

We have moved on without erasing Percy from memory, and our new one is all that Percy was and more. I have much more to say if anyone is willing to discuss their experiences.

Kind regards, especially to those who have loved and lost.

P

[Greytmate]

It is nearly a year to the day we asked our vet to euthanize our beloved Percy who was only over a year old and we don't know what was wrong. The handling of our child's illness and the final injection has left us scarred and concerned for our new child, also a 1 year old Maltese.

Percy was suddenly ill at the start of Good Friday 2011, and we took him to the nearest available vet a few suburbs away considering the long weekend is the time that everything is closed. Over 3 days the vet basically did nothing but put him on a drip. I now think the vet simply was covering for the long weekend and didn't care much at all. What I would like to discuss is how uncaring vets are.

Firstly, we should never have left Percy overnight. The back of a clinic has no comfort, nothing is familiar in fact it's downright creepy and a highly bonded pet like a Maltese is going to be in such distress that overnight stays cannot possibly be good.

Secondly, we asked for euthanasia because Percy was not even drinking, did not really recognise us and we did not know what to do. But we attended the injection and were horrified – we held him while the vet flushed the drip and then our child screamed in terror with the green injection. I can never remove from my mind the honest truth that our Percy's last moment was terror. The vet didn't even seem to notice. In my view, Percy knew what the injection was for and I feel I did not give him the most compassionate treatment even though I had intended a calm gentle passing away.

I can't overstate that I am sickened about the veterinary profession. Our new adopted child will never go to a vet. Far better to pass away in my arms than days of distress with strangers.

We have moved on without erasing Percy from memory, and our new one is all that Percy was and more. I have much more to say if anyone is willing to discuss their experiences.

Kind regards, especially to those who have loved and lost.

P

That's really sad.

I have noticed there is a huge difference between the standard of after-hours care at a vet hospital and a normal vet surgery. Sometimes you get what you pay for, and after hours care or the latest facilities are not cheap. There are usually only a few really well-equipped vet hospitals that are staffed 24 hours in each capital city, compared to the hundreds of ordinary clinics that are around.

I don't think it is a good idea never to visit a vet, some illnesses require diagnosis and treatment. Pets require vaccination too. I would never want my pets to be in pain or discomfort when treatment is so easily available.

The important thing is to find a good vet that you can trust, and know where the best vet hospitals are in case of emergencies. If your pet gets sick or injured and you fail to get vet treatment, you can be charged with neglecting the welfare of your pet.

[Erny]

I can hear your pain.

But please don't condemn your new dog to a life where Vets are prohibited. Everyone well knows from the health forum that I have a dog with health issues and have and continue to work hard to improve him by using alternative methods. This is not to the exclusion of Veterinary advice, for the information they have and give. I too have been burnt badly by more than one Vet, but there are good ones around. It's a matter of finding him/her. Sometimes we are better to say good-bye to our dogs and help them on their way. It sounds to me that you had a horrendous experience and I'm really sorry that's the case. My experience was not the same, as sad and hard as it still was to make the decision in the first place. But a right decision was what I believe it was.

Please don't swear off Vets. They are a part of our dog community and like the most of us in whatever industry we're in, they have their place and are needed.

[Percynality]

Thanks for your replies. I am only concerned about my friend's welfare. I am not at all suggesting that he be in any discomfort, in fact I am too concerned about it. But I do know more about my pet's needs than a vet and I won't let anyone treat him in manner he wouldn't like.

Percy got all the injections and yet seemed to need to go to the vet for several things. I am not entirely sure the injections didn't cause something, for the same reasons I never get flu injections for myself either.

I just can't see how I can go to a new vet and demand the most compassionate treatment - surely vets just get rid of problem clients?

I feel anyone coming near my friend needs to be interviewed for suitability!

P

[Janba]

I lost one of my dogs at an after hours vet hospital. The care they gave her and the compassion they showed to me was second to none even though they had never seen me or her before. There was nothing they could have done to save her but they tried and gave her comfort in her last hours. Please don't condemn all vets by one bad experience.

[stormie]

I'm sorry you found Percy's final moments so upsetting. I can't speak for all Vets, but all the ones I know really do try to make things as easy and stress free as possible for both the owners and their pets.

I would like to maybe offer you a different point of view, from someone who works in the industry.

I'm sorry that you feel that the treating Vet did nothing but put Percy on a drip. I'm sure it wasn't that the Vet didn't care.Did they offer to send Percy to one of the larger after hours hospitals for 24 hour monitoring? Were any other treatment options, such as taking bloods, discussed or offered to you?

With regards to the back of the clinic, unfortunately hospitals are places that need to be kept very clean. So that means lots of stainless steel as smooth surfaces to reduce the risk of diseases spreading etc. In most cases, I can tell you that animals in hospital are not stressed, and that usually the owners are much more worried than they need to be. Hospital patients adapt to their environment very quickly, so whilst as an owner you might be worried, in most cases, our patients are very content and comfortable.

Personally I think it's important that our animals can cope with being away from home, in case situations like this arise.

Giving our animals the final injection is really upsetting. I can tell you quite honestly that I struggle not to tear up with every euthanasia we do, so I certainly do care very much.

Whilst it may not help, I can tell you that your Percy would have felt no pain and putting the injection through the already placed drip line would have ensured this. Perhaps the reason the Vet showed no emotion when giving the injection was because they were actually upset and trying to remain composed.

I'm really sorry you're so troubled by the end, but please don't think all Vets are uncaring because of this. For most, it's the hardest job in the world and I can tell you that they do fine it quite distressing.

[Jumabaar]

Most vets are in the profession because they love animals!! Find one that you like and stick with them- the good ones have a wealth of knowledge to share to ensure your dog lives an amazing and healthy life.

Perhaps you could look for a vet that does holistic therapy?

I am a big fan of my vet- she is AMAZING and has always gone far and beyond what I expected. She has emailed international experts when she didn't know answers to my questions. She was positive when my dog was in a crappy situation and compassionate when I needed a shoulder. Find a vet who you can relate to- your dog deserves it.

[Greytmate]

Thanks for your replies. I am only concerned about my friend's welfare. I am not at all suggesting that he be in any discomfort, in fact I am too concerned about it. But I do know more about my pet's needs than a vet and I won't let anyone treat him in manner he wouldn't like.

Percy got all the injections and yet seemed to need to go to the vet for several things. I am not entirely sure the injections didn't cause something, for the same reasons I never get flu injections for myself either.

I just can't see how I can go to a new vet and demand the most compassionate treatment - surely vets just get rid of problem clients?

I feel anyone coming near my friend needs to be interviewed for suitability!

P

Knowing about your dog's needs won't help your dog if he needs dental treatment, needs to be stitched up after an accident, needs antibiotics for an infection, needs an injection of anti-histamines for an allergic reaction, or anything else that a vet would normally do.

It would be sensible to try to locate a good vet through word of mouth. Before you have an emergency and need to find a vet in a hurry. Vets train for at least six years, and have access to medicines that normal people can't buy. Sometimes visiting one is necessary for you to meet your legal obligation to provide for your animal's welfare.

[Staffyluv]

It is hard to say goodbye to our beloved furry friends and sadly sometimes it is necessary well before they have had much of a chance to share many years with us... I am sorry for your loss.

Our vet is the most wonderful, caring vet I have ever met.. Many nights he stayed with our old boy when he was sick (he had mast cell cancer)..

Many times I called his personal mobile (bet he wishes he never gave it to me), on a Sunday night or some other outrageous hour and he always manged to make time to help...

He made many home visits to administer treatment and did endless research when Ollie was first diagnosed as he did not have a lot of experience with MCT... He was an expert in the end..

To tag all vets as uncaring is simply not true.. Yes I am sure there are those out there that get tired of it or for whatever reason they lose interest...

When it came time to say goodbye to Ollie, our vet spent well over an hour with us and him before the final injection was done... Ollie and I were treated with the utmost respect...

Our vet handled all of the cremation and return of Ollie's ashes to us...

I hope you find a vet that you can confide in and trust... You just keep going to different ones until you find one that you feel comfortable with...

[persephone]

I am also sorry you were so upset.

I presume you meant your dog, when you said child.....

Your dog possibly screamed from pain ...or maybe because he felt your pain and fright and sadness.. I have seen/held many dogs as they received their green dream , and do not believe they foresee the outcome, or feel pain .

Dogs who have struggled are usually ones who are resisting being held in the necessary position , and yes, it may make those final minutes uncomfortable for owners.

It is a sad time for staff and owners ..especially if a dog has been badly injured, or suffered a sudden illness..people have not had time to accept what has happened, and have not said proper goodbyes .

You may well choose to not have your dog vaccinated against parvo .....and may be lucky to have him stay healthy and fit :) parvo is not like our human 'flu. ..it is a deadly and painful and debilitating virus, which MUST be treated promptly and seriously by a vet.

Ear infections, gastro, and a host of other illnesses/accidents may not heal without some sort of veterinary intervention ..

so, as has been said, search around for a vet who ticks your boxes , and establish a relationship before your dog has need of them in a hurry - this way you will BOTH know what is expected when the time comes . :)

Good luck with your new dog - may he stay healthy and active.

[Percynality]

Stormie, because your post is so interesting, I am answering specfic points. Not to criticise but to be very clear.

Did they offer to send Percy to one of the larger after hours hospitals for 24 hour monitoring?

Yes, and I feel absolutely sick we didn’t take that option up. To be honest I got the feeling everything was about prolonging charges. I know that sounds callous where a life is concerned, but I distrusted them very much.

Were any other treatment options, such as taking bloods, discussed or offered to you?

Nope, no other care.

Hospital patients adapt to their environment very quickly, so whilst as an owner you might be worried, in most cases, our patients are very content and comfortable.

No you are wrong in our case. Percy defecated in the reception area when we returned. I didn’t listen to him and he knew better than me.

Personally I think it's important that our animals can cope with being away from home, in case situations like this arise.

Not an option with Maltese and small breeds. So many small dogs are yappy if they are distressed and the stupid owners don’t see it. Percy was ordinarily calm because we treated him right.

I can tell you that your Percy would have felt no pain and putting the injection through the already placed drip line would have ensured this.

No you are wrong. I'm sorry but that comment confirms my distrust of vets. We later found out that the lethabarb injection can sting, but his reaction was not even that - I *know* what he experienced. In fact we had to hold him very firmly to stop him struggling. I am surpised is that he had that strength in him, also not a great thing to live with now.

Regards,

P

[Percynality]

Greytmate,

I'm not entirely comfortable with being threatened with legal obligations. That Vet apparently has no legal obligations...

[persephone]

Oh.. and yes, there are caring vets - like the one years ago, who removed a tumour from my aged mouse's neck ... the surgery went well, but as I was collecting my little mate, he had a heart attack, and , despite the vet trying to revive him, died in my hands ...we were all teary and upset.

[Alkhe]

I'm so sorry that your experiences have been so awful, and that you had such a traumatic experience with Percy. I have heard awful things about after hour vets, and my own experience was pretty unmemorable except for the outstanding bill.

I currently go to a brilliant vet clinic that I love; I completely trust them and genuinely believe that they have my dog's best interests at heart. I first visited them when I had a foster greyhound in my care and he needed to have some grits removed from a pad in his paw. The vet accomodated us late in the afternoon, ended up leaving much later than they closed, and was fully prepared to stay as long as necessary to get teh stuff out of his foot, were it going to need a general anaesthetic. They're a bit on the expensive side but I'm prepared to pay because of how gentle they are with my little dog, and how dedicated and lovely they are.

There are times in your dog's life where you will need a vet, as others have said. My last requirement was when my dog ate a rat that had been killed by mouse bait, and I had to take her there. Things like that, or dental problems as someone mentioned, you really NEED a vet. You can't rely on yourself because in the case of poisoning, even waiting to locate a vet can be the difference between life and death. Having somebody to hand who knows you and your dog and their history can be very reassuring and invaluable.

Perhaps people could suggest a caring and well respected, trusted vet in your area, if you give a general idea of where you live? I live in Brunswick East and am more than happy to recommend a vet or two if you would like :)

[redangel]

To condemn all vets because of one is hardly rational....Granted it seems like you were not treated with compassion by your description, but to decide that the WHOLE veterinary profession totally sickens you? Really???? One person doesn't truly reflect a whole profession now does it?

I am sorry that you have a bad memory of Percys last moments....from experience most euthanasia's are much more peaceful (trust me Ive seen a few) I might add that sometimes the pet can pick up the apprehension & fear from its distressed owner, especially when in unfamiliar surroundings.

To say your pet will never go to a vet is not only borne of emotive overload it is downright irresponsible. Good luck trying to treat the many conditions that may occur on your own knowledge alone! Sure it is not necessary to visit a vet for every itch or sneeze but lets face it thats like you saying you wouldnt visit a Dr for the rest of your life because you met a Dr once, didnt like him/her and on that decided the whole profession was bad.

I personally couldnt condemn a loved companion a death in my arms because I think it would be preferable to medical intervention. I have been witness to some very peaceful euthanasias...and have witnessed some awful prolonged "natural" deaths (which were anything but peaceful)

Maybe now is the time before your pet gets sick to visit some prospective clinics and meet under a less stressful situation and build up a bit of a relationship....

I hope you spoke to the breeder of the pup and let them know that the dog passed under unusual circumstances...seeing you purchased another maltese (you obviously love the breed)did you go back to the same breeder? Perhaps your breeder can recommend a vet???

[karly101]

I'm sorry for the traumatic experience...

But please don't rule all vets as uncaring... just one example, the clinic I am at now and the one I was at prior... all the vets find euthanasia upsetting and difficult. They commonly come and have a cry out the back afterwards and they do everything they can to make it as quick and painless for both the owner and their pet...I'm also amazed that they all constantly work long hours from 8am-9pm at night to ensure that they treat, keep up to date and have time to talk over results/treatments with owners.

I'm sure there are plenty of not so good vets out there but please don't neglect your pet medical attention because of bad experiences... talk to neighbours/friends and find their recommendations... I often find that is the best way to find a good vet.

[persephone]

Did they offer to send Percy to one of the larger after hours hospitals for 24 hour monitoring?

Yes, and I feel absolutely sick we didn't take that option up.

The vet obviously cared , and perhaps knew your dog needed more than he could provide, so you were given the option of hospital care .

We later found out that the lethabarb injection can sting,

AFAIK, this happens when the drug is injected outside of a vein ...and yes, then it can sting badly.

In fact we had to hold him very firmly to stop him struggling. I am surpised is that he had that strength in him, also not a great thing to live with now.

It is most upsetting to have a dog struggle , I have seen it enough times .. and have also seen dogs calm right down and become much easier to position once owners go out of the consulting room....

Edited April 6, 2012 by persephone

[stormie]

The needle may sting as it goes in, if it they miss the vein (however in Percy's case there was already a line in so wouldn't have had a needle and couldnt have gone outside the vein) but I can tell you 100% that I have never seen an animal scream once the lethabarb is being injected.

If it were possible they may feel something as it passes through their veins, it's only for a matter of seconds before they are unconscious and personally I still feel this is much more humane than otherwise allowing them to die on their own, which may be a long, painful passing.

Edited April 6, 2012 by stormie

[Greytmate]

Stormie, because your post is so interesting, I am answering specfic points. Not to criticise but to be very clear.

Did they offer to send Percy to one of the larger after hours hospitals for 24 hour monitoring?

Yes, and I feel absolutely sick we didn't take that option up. To be honest I got the feeling everything was about prolonging charges. I know that sounds callous where a life is concerned, but I distrusted them very much.

Were any other treatment options, such as taking bloods, discussed or offered to you?

Nope, no other care.

Hospital patients adapt to their environment very quickly, so whilst as an owner you might be worried, in most cases, our patients are very content and comfortable.

No you are wrong in our case. Percy defecated in the reception area when we returned. I didn't listen to him and he knew better than me.

Personally I think it's important that our animals can cope with being away from home, in case situations like this arise.

Not an option with Maltese and small breeds. So many small dogs are yappy if they are distressed and the stupid owners don't see it. Percy was ordinarily calm because we treated him right.

I can tell you that your Percy would have felt no pain and putting the injection through the already placed drip line would have ensured this.

No you are wrong. I'm sorry but that comment confirms my distrust of vets. We later found out that the lethabarb injection can sting, but his reaction was not even that - I *know* what he experienced. In fact we had to hold him very firmly to stop him struggling. I am surpised is that he had that strength in him, also not a great thing to live with now.

Regards,

P

I am having trouble understanding why you refused the option to have your dog treated at a vet hospital if he was so sick, and requested euthanasia instead of a second opinion. Vet hospitals are like people hospitals. They have their own pathology labs and so can do the testing that a normal vet cannot do on public holidays. How would taking your dog to a better equipped vet be about prolonging charges? You would be paying the charges to a different vet. I can understand that sometimes the best care might be unaffordable, and sometimes taking out insurance is a good option.

Small dogs are really no different from big dogs in their behaviour. Some small dogs are prone to separation anxiety, and some large ones are as well. If you had this problem with your last dog, and suspect that your current dog has this problem too, you might want to get some advice from a trainer or behaviourist. Dogs are much happier if they can learn to cope with separation from their owners at times.

Dogzonline is a great place to learn all about dog problems and behaviour because there are so many knowledgeable people here. We can all learn to be better dog owners by listening to advice from qualified and very experienced people. There wouldn't be a single person here who would be unsympathetic to what happened to Percy. But very few people here would agree with what you have said in this thread or give support for your unusual ideas about dog welfare.

Greytmate,

I'm not entirely comfortable with being threatened with legal obligations. That Vet apparently has no legal obligations...

If you own a dog, you have legal obligations to provide for its welfare, as well as legal obligations to ensure it causes no harm to others. That is how it works in Australia. If you are uncomfortable with that, you are not ready to own a dog

Dog owners have to be responsible. Vets have legal obligations and responsibilities as well.

[m-sass]

My only complaint of some vets in the OP's situation is they are not on the ball enough for my liking and you have to prompt them as the dog's owner, the dog is ill, in what regard, then I would ask the vet what illness produces these symptoms, can we test and confirm/rule out certain things etc, I would never just have an ill dog on a drip for 3 days without some serious answers in relation to the cause of his illness, and if the vet couldn't provide that, I would take him elsewhere and wouldn't pay the bill either if the service was substandard.

On the business end they can rip you off especially through incompetence and misdiagnosis, do you keep paying to have your car worked on and the problem not fixed?, same with animals at the vet I think?