If There Is An Abscess At The Root Of A Dog's Tooth

[Erny]

At this stage, it's a hypothetical, but for my boy, it is a possibility. And it relates to at least the very rear molar, if not others having been affected.

I will of course be asking the Vet and I should have done so when the Vet phoned me yesterday to let me know we need to x-ray for this purpose and will do this before a teeth clean .... except as I looked out the window my dog was doing a vomit and I got a bit distracted. I was probably caught a bit off guard as well, as I'd been working to cure him of what we've until now only thought of as gum ulcers, and although that concern has had gravity, I didn't think beyond that.

The Vet hasn't said or suggested extraction would be necessary if there was an abscess at the root of the tooth - in fact there were no suggestions at this stage. I'm only going by my own experience where I've had to have a couple of teeth removed because of abscesses.

I would like some opinions and recounts of experiences if possible, just to arm me as to what possibilities out there that there can be. For example, any success stories where antibiotics have solved the problem, rather than tooth extraction.

I'm quite concerned about this as for such a young dog (rising 4yo) and for what I'd consider to be major teeth, this is potentially going to represent the beginning of more problems .

ETA: There's nothing much I can do over the Easter break except worry. <sigh> Oh well, one way to shed some excess weight of mine, lol.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Erny

[sheree_e4]

The only thing that can be done is have the tooth removed :) Kovu has his carnassial removed for the same reason when he was 2,

He is fine now :D

ETA If he has an abscess ,there is already an open path in the tooth to the bone. The tooth has to be removed to stop bacteria travelling down to the bone. Chances are if he has lots of tartar on his teeth once this is removed the tooth will be fractured and mobile anyway.

Edited April 6, 2012 by sheree_e4

[BC4ME]

The only thing that can be done is have the tooth removed :) Kovu has his carnassial removed for the same reason when he was 2,

He is fine now :D

ETA If he has an abscess ,there is already an open path in the tooth to the bone. The tooth has to be removed to stop bacteria travelling down to the bone. Chances are if he has lots of tartar on his teeth once this is removed the tooth will be fractured and mobile anyway.

I agree with Sheree I've seen lots of dentals abcesses and it extraction is the way to go.

Once your vet gets into the mouth and has a good probe and look around each tooth and takes some xrays you will have a definate answer.

Don't stress about losing teeth dogs cope quite well without them.

Just a word of warning if he needs to have an extraction be prepared to feed meat/chicken chunks for 5-7 days as he should have stitches in his gum line where the tooth was taken. Dry food is too hard and wet food can get stuck in the wound so meat/chicken chunks are best.

[Mason_Gibbs]

I only have experiences with puppy teeth abscessing but he had both removed at the time of the abscess :)

[Erny]

Thanks BC4Me .... regards the feeding, he has digestive issues so I get a bit limited on what I can feed him. It depends on what he will eat at the time, but beef is a proven no-no and he doesn't do great on chicken. But I'll bear your tip in mind. Appreciated.

[becks]

If they are like people in this respect, the abcess would mean the root is dead anyway, so it would be an extraction as I don't think they do root canal fillings on dogs!!

[BC4ME]

Thanks BC4Me .... regards the feeding, he has digestive issues so I get a bit limited on what I can feed him. It depends on what he will eat at the time, but beef is a proven no-no and he doesn't do great on chicken. But I'll bear your tip in mind. Appreciated.

You might need to soak his dry food in some water but don't make it sloppy, just take the harness off it.

[millhouse]

I hope the tooth hasn't been taken out yet?!

If there is a periapical abscess present around the root of the carnassial, and as long as it isn't too big the tooth can be saved.

There are only two options for teeth with periapical lesions: extraction or root canal therapy. If you think the tooth is important, then get a root canal done. Antibiotics do not work.

In Melbourne you have the choice of a few guys that do them - I would recommend Wayne Fitzgerald down at the Melbourne Uni's Weribee Clinic. He knows his stuff.

[cavNrott]

Stephen Coles is a dental specialist at Sandringham Vet Clinic.

My 14yo GSD had two carnassials extracted by Dr. Coles due to them being abscessed. The dog recovered quickly without any problems. I was not offered alternative treatment such as root canals but would have elected extraction at this tough old dog's age in any case.

[Erny]

I hope the tooth hasn't been taken out yet?!

If there is a periapical abscess present around the root of the carnassial, and as long as it isn't too big the tooth can be saved.

There are only two options for teeth with periapical lesions: extraction or root canal therapy. If you think the tooth is important, then get a root canal done. Antibiotics do not work.

In Melbourne you have the choice of a few guys that do them - I would recommend Wayne Fitzgerald down at the Melbourne Uni's Weribee Clinic. He knows his stuff.

Thank you, Millhouse (and CavNRott). No - the tooth has not been extracted, at this point of time. In my unprofessional and unknowledgeable capacity, I do believe the tooth is important. I don't want to jump too soon towards things that are irreversible, but it does take some reserved restraint and a whole bucket of worry. I have re-visited our Vet for second-time opinion. He agrees I have managed to reduce the size of the gum ulcers and the gums seem considerably less inflamed. I'm steadfastly trying hard to clean up his teeth (which has shown noticeable improvement as well - but I have had trouble getting hold of the straight edge scaler that I think would help a lot) and as a result, even our Vet agrees to just settle back, keep working at it and keep a very close eye before we go the GA, Xray and potential tooth extraction route.

If I were dealing with an abscess, would the inflammation be sub-siding?

Edited April 30, 2012 by Erny

[millhouse]

Thank you, Millhouse (and CavNRott). No - the tooth has not been extracted, at this point of time. In my unprofessional and unknowledgeable capacity, I do believe the tooth is important. I don't want to jump too soon towards things that are irreversible, but it does take some reserved restraint and a whole bucket of worry. I have re-visited our Vet for second-time opinion. He agrees I have managed to reduce the size of the gum ulcers and the gums seem considerably less inflamed. I'm steadfastly trying hard to clean up his teeth (which has shown noticeable improvement as well - but I have had trouble getting hold of the straight edge scaler that I think would help a lot) and as a result, even our Vet agrees to just settle back, keep working at it and keep a very close eye before we go the GA, Xray and potential tooth extraction route.

If I were dealing with an abscess, would the inflammation be sub-siding?

Honestly it would be unlikely that an abscess would cause the inflammation in the first place.

Ulceration in the mouth can be from numerous reasons, but the most common is as a reaction to plaque. IF you are now paying more attention to the mouth you will be resucing the amount of plaque there, so everything should be better.

I would still go ahead with the dental to have things checked out more thoroughly. However keep up the awesome work with the cleaning.

________________________

WARNING! Rant AHEAD!!

I'll give you my unrequested opinion on home scaling as well: you are conning yourself. The reason I say this is that the problem with removing the calculus build up on the teeth makes them look cleaner, but does nothing about the subgingival areas (under the gums). This is where the disease is. Not on the tooth crown. So as people see less calculus there, they make an assumption that that is all good, and all healthy, when it certainly may not be at all. I have commonly removed a lot of significantly periodontally diseased teeth that had only a small amount of calculus on them.

It is just so vitally important to check the subgingival area thoroughly. We should go to our dentist every 6-12 months, and then they examine closely and clean the teeth as required, even though we do lots of things to keep our teeth clean and the mouth healthy. Why shouldn't we do this for our dogs? Chewing a raw bone cannot come close to tooth brushing, so if we need a teeth clean that often with toothbrushing, why do we believe that our dogs are "just fine"?

So by all means keep the caclulus levels low on the tooth crowns, as it does help with Periodontal disease, but don't forget that it is under the gums on all sides of the teeth, even the ones you can't examine, that periodontal disease exists. Teeth need to be examined closely. Just because they have minmal calculus doesn't mean they are OK.

Sorry for that - my little soapbox.

[Erny]

Thanks Millhouse - and I do believe you, and think you are right, and I'm relieved to be thinking someone else is thinking similar. Regards having almost convinced myself that it is not likely to be a root abscess, he'll pick up a ball and chew on the back molars - both sides, without exhibiting any sign of pain.

Regards the calculus under the gum - what you've written is also what I've read and heard. I guess my strong reluctance is the use of GA when I've been working so long and trying so hard to get his system to work properly. We still have problems, but the system seems to be working better and stronger and I've been so hung back in not wanting to upset that side of things. But I know that one thing can lead to another. It would be great if a general was not required for this kind of work, but there ya go.

And go ahead and rant - a rant is always a good thing when you have the welfare of another being at your heart :).

Edited May 14, 2012 by Erny

[karly101]

It might be wise to visit Dr Clarke - he's in Hallam and dentistry is his thing! If you are wanting to save the tooth I imagine he would be the one to see. Placing on IV fluids will also really help with the GA.

They are very stoic - we had a cat with TERRIBLE teeth the other day and the owner had refused to believe anything was wrong because he was still eating - we weren't able to save many teeth at all but I can imagine the cat probably felt relieved after it was all over!

[Mason_Gibbs]

I would see a veterinary dentist

[Jumabaar]

Thanks Millhouse - and I do believe you, and think you are right, and I'm relieved to be thinking someone else is thinking similar. Regards having almost convinced myself that it is not likely to be a root abscess, he'll pick up a ball and chew on the back molars - both sides, without exhibiting any sign of pain.

Regards the calculus under the gum - what you've written is also what I've read and heard. I guess my strong reluctance is the use of GA when I've been working so long and trying so hard to get his system to work properly. We still have problems, but the system seems to be working better and stronger and I've been so hung back in not wanting to upset that side of things. But I know that one thing can lead to another. It would be great if a general was not required for this kind of work, but there ya go.

And go ahead and rant - a rant is always a good thing when you have the welfare of another being at your heart :).

Erny I found two articles on general dental 'stuff' if you would like me to send them too you. Doubt that they would be any help in this specific situation but they might give you a little more info generally about the mouth. I would have to email them so PM me if your interested. (they came up in my search for info on fractured teeth but do have general info too)

Edited May 14, 2012 by Jumabaar

[InspectorRex]

I agree with CavNRott- Dr Stephen Coles at Sandringham would be whom I would be taking your dog to.

He is a Specialist Veterinary Dentist and for manya year was the Dental for the Royal Melbourne Zoo.

He is very thorough and very compassionate about his work.

He treats all animals like they were his own.

[Erny]

Erny I found two articles on general dental 'stuff' if you would like me to send them too you. Doubt that they would be any help in this specific situation but they might give you a little more info generally about the mouth. I would have to email them so PM me if your interested. (they came up in my search for info on fractured teeth but do have general info too)

Thanks Jumabaar - it's always interesting to learn more about related stuff. My computer is in at the doctors ATM though and it'll be a few to several days before I have it back. iPhone not into attachments - at least not large ones, so it would've a while before I can get to read it. But please do email it to me : [email protected]

Cheers - appreciate the support.

I'll go have another chat with Mandelas Vet soon.

Erny