Puppy Feeding And Toileting - Time Frames?/

[ash1]

We have one seven month old and one six month old pups. We've had them for about a month now (rescues).

They are large breed dogs (one a dobie/husky cross, the other a bull arab/mum was a good sport) and the bull arab I am finding very hard to keep any weight on. I have been upping his meals progressively so he now gets fed twice as much as the dobie/husky, yet he is still legs and bones. I am currently feeding them three good size meals a day, as well as a few treats in between - how old should they be when I cut the meals down to twice a day (all our other dogs get fed twice a day, but it is so long since I had a pup I can't remember what age they need to be feed 3-4 meals a day for).

They have both been wormed, so that's not the skinny mini's problem, I wondering if his body is so busy growing up (tall) that it's not having time to grow out. I am worried about overfeeding and growing up too quickly a large breed dog given the genetic propensity for joint problems, but at the same time, you can often see the poor little buggers hip and rib bones. He's being fed a LOT - three times more than our 35kg German Shepherd. His poos are good, so there are no tummy problems, should I just keep up and up and upping his food intake? He's not emaciated, but thinner that I would like to see a pup.

And how long should the pups be able to go between toilet breaks? I was taking them out every half an hour, which was going reasonably well (still some accidents), the front door is open all day long, but we are still getting the ocassional accident. We don't punish, but we do scold (just an "uh uh, outside", and then straight outside to "finish").

[RiverStar-Aura]

What are you feeding him?

A 6 month old puppy doesn't need 3 meals a day: 2 if you want but no more.

What makes you think he is underweight? He could just be a lanky dog. You only need to see a waistline and be able to feel his ribs.

[ash1]

What are you feeding him?

A 6 month old puppy doesn't need 3 meals a day: 2 if you want but no more.

What makes you think he is underweight? He could just be a lanky dog. You only need to see a waistline and be able to feel his ribs.

Hi RiverStar,

In the morning they get dry food with divetelact (an animal milk formula with nutrients)

Lunch time they get whatever's lying around; can be anything from scraps from last night's dinner, the rest of my lunch, fruit, chicken, dog biscuits, dog bones (dried and raw meat). It's an informal lunch (i.e., no set time), I tend to give all the dogs something to eat after I've had my own lunch the time of which can vary hugely, depending upon what I'm up to during the day. It's a habit I've always had with our dogs and all of them are a healthy size.

Dinner they get a huge variety; leftovers from our plates (which could be anything from fish, chicken, some kind of meat, vegies, pasta, etc), raw meat (beef or roo), dog roll if there's nothing else left in the house.

You can't just feel this dog's ribs, you could play them like a piano, you can see them quite clearly defined. His hip bones also jut out. As I said in my previous post, he's not emaciated (and certainly not starved!), but there just doesn't seem to be an inch of spare flesh on him, no matter how much I feed him. The Dobie/Husky gets fed half as much as Spud does, and is the perfect size, but Spuddy just won't fatten up. A friend who visited the other day commented on how skinny he was.

[ash1]

I should also add that he is not being over-exercised, in fact he gets no formal exercise at all apart from puppy play around our property (we're on large acreage, so admittedly there is quite a lot of running around during puppy play). I am so cautious about over-feeding and over exercising as we have a GSD with hip dysplasia and after a lot of reading it appears these may be two large factors in the development of the disease.

[Christina]

Take the pup to the vet for a check. He may need blood tests to see what is going on.

Doubt it is anything to do with his diet at all. Everyone has their own best diet but pup should not be that thin on what you are feeding. It may be as simple as the wormer you are using is not working on him & you don't realise. The vet can pop a poo sample under the microscope & check in seconds so take a sample with you when you go.

[persephone]

do we have a photo of the piano man pup?

[ash1]

Thanks Christina,

I did in fact take him up to the vet today, and the vet says he is a little on the thin side, not too bad, just not as plump as he'd like to see a pup of his age. He didn't suggest any blood work (and I didn't know to ask), but told me to feed him more - "feed him as much as he can eat"!!! (sounds like a recipe for an exploding pup!)

I explained my concerns about the hip/elbow dysplasia with regards to over feeding/too fast growing as a pup possibly being a contributing factor, but he seemed to just brush that off, told me you couldn't overfeed a large breed puppy in the first year - however this is not what all my reading about hip dysplasia indicates

I'll reworm the little fella over the weekend and up his feeds again, if he's not a bit fatter by this time next week, I think I'll find another vet (not that confident with this vet) and take the new vet a nice pressie from Spuddy's rear end to check and see if the wormer's working and get some blood work done.

The vet did check everything else out and said he was as strong as an ox, and he certainly acts and looks like a healthy pup, apart from being thin. Wish I had that dog's metabolism! :D

Persephone, not one that shows his ribs and hips, I'll get one of him tomorrow and post it.

[sheena]

I am not real sure why you would be feeding him a milk formula at his age & I would be stopping the feeding of leftovers & human cooked food. Dogs don't need for their food to be cooked & if he is eating rubbish like bread & pasta & cooked vegetables which he can't digest & dog rolls are rubbish. Why not put him onto food especially formulated for dogs, either by researching & providing him with a balanced raw diet or putting him onto a top quality (not supermarket) dry dog food for Adults with raw meaty bones, like turkey necks. It sounds to me that his diet is far from balanced for a growing dog.

[ash1]

I am not real sure why you would be feeding him a milk formula at his age & I would be stopping the feeding of leftovers & human cooked food. Dogs don't need for their food to be cooked & if he is eating rubbish like bread & pasta & cooked vegetables which he can't digest & dog rolls are rubbish. Why not put him onto food especially formulated for dogs, either by researching & providing him with a balanced raw diet or putting him onto a top quality (not supermarket) dry dog food for Adults with raw meaty bones, like turkey necks. It sounds to me that his diet is far from balanced for a growing dog.

We have always fed our dogs this kind of diet and all of them (although the original four are now elderly; 2 small breeds at 12 years, two large breeds at 8 years), are extremely healthy. (With the exception of the GSD who has hip dysplasia, apart from this his health is excellent and the dysplasia is being managed very well medically.)

The only reason we have visited the vet in their respective lifetimes is for vaccinations and of course the GSD's hip dysplasia. I quite honestly can't remember the last time one of them went for an illness (touch wood), so their diet can't be that bad. Actually I tell a lie, we had to take our cattle dog to the vet a couple of years ago when he ran smack bang into the shepherd whilst playing ball and started convulsing. But that was a knock to the head and nothing to do with his diet. And the GSD had to go to the vet for an abscess caused by a foreign body earlier this year, but again, nothing to do with his diet.

With six dogs we would have to take out a second mortgage to feed the ridiculously priced food from the vet. They get a lot of raw human grade food; chicken, beef, fish and roo, ocassionally a bit of human grade offal. The scraps from our plate are usually pretty minimal, just a taste. There is never anything left on hubby's plate :laugh: , I can never finish a meal (eyes bigger than my belly) so they get my leftovers - between six dogs it is usually only a mouthful.

The milk formula is just to soften the dry food (the adult dogs don't get it), and make sure they're getting a good balance of nutrients. They get half a baby's bottle between them in the morning with the kibble. They won't get this forever, but IMO it gives a good start.

[sheena]

I am not real sure why you would be feeding him a milk formula at his age & I would be stopping the feeding of leftovers & human cooked food. Dogs don't need for their food to be cooked & if he is eating rubbish like bread & pasta & cooked vegetables which he can't digest & dog rolls are rubbish. Why not put him onto food especially formulated for dogs, either by researching & providing him with a balanced raw diet or putting him onto a top quality (not supermarket) dry dog food for Adults with raw meaty bones, like turkey necks. It sounds to me that his diet is far from balanced for a growing dog.

We have always fed our dogs this kind of diet and all of them (although the original four are now elderly; 2 small breeds at 12 years, two large breeds at 8 years), are extremely healthy. (With the exception of the GSD who has hip dysplasia, apart from this his health is excellent and the dysplasia is being managed very well medically.)

The only reason we have visited the vet in their respective lifetimes is for vaccinations and of course the GSD's hip dysplasia. I quite honestly can't remember the last time one of them went for an illness (touch wood), so their diet can't be that bad. Actually I tell a lie, we had to take our cattle dog to the vet a couple of years ago when he ran smack bang into the shepherd whilst playing ball and started convulsing. But that was a knock to the head and nothing to do with his diet. And the GSD had to go to the vet for an abscess caused by a foreign body earlier this year, but again, nothing to do with his diet.

With six dogs we would have to take out a second mortgage to feed the ridiculously priced food from the vet. They get a lot of raw human grade food; chicken, beef, fish and roo, ocassionally a bit of human grade offal. The scraps from our plate are usually pretty minimal, just a taste. There is never anything left on hubby's plate :laugh: , I can never finish a meal (eyes bigger than my belly) so they get my leftovers - between six dogs it is usually only a mouthful.

The milk formula is just to soften the dry food (the adult dogs don't get it), and make sure they're getting a good balance of nutrients. They get half a baby's bottle between them in the morning with the kibble. They won't get this forever, but IMO it gives a good start.

Just a suggestion, that's all. The diet your dogs are on may not be suitable for this particular pup....why else would he not be thriving Growing dogs, especially large breed ones need a good diet that supplies them with all their nutritional needs, other wise, they don't grow properly or end up with problems like hip dysplasia. When feeding scraps off your plate do you make sure your dogs never get fed things like onion & other human foods known to be dangerous to dogs health. Onion can kill, either slowly or quickly. You don't need to get the expensive foods from the vet for your dogs & canned food is almost all water. Bonnie which you can get from the produce stores is a good food for most dogs if you can't afford something a little better. Just out of interest, what kibble is this particular pup getting & how much of it makes up his diet. I am just trying to help...you said your pup is not thriving & I suggested it is probably his diet.

[ash1]

I am not real sure why you would be feeding him a milk formula at his age & I would be stopping the feeding of leftovers & human cooked food. Dogs don't need for their food to be cooked & if he is eating rubbish like bread & pasta & cooked vegetables which he can't digest & dog rolls are rubbish. Why not put him onto food especially formulated for dogs, either by researching & providing him with a balanced raw diet or putting him onto a top quality (not supermarket) dry dog food for Adults with raw meaty bones, like turkey necks. It sounds to me that his diet is far from balanced for a growing dog.

We have always fed our dogs this kind of diet and all of them (although the original four are now elderly; 2 small breeds at 12 years, two large breeds at 8 years), are extremely healthy. (With the exception of the GSD who has hip dysplasia, apart from this his health is excellent and the dysplasia is being managed very well medically.)

The only reason we have visited the vet in their respective lifetimes is for vaccinations and of course the GSD's hip dysplasia. I quite honestly can't remember the last time one of them went for an illness (touch wood), so their diet can't be that bad. Actually I tell a lie, we had to take our cattle dog to the vet a couple of years ago when he ran smack bang into the shepherd whilst playing ball and started convulsing. But that was a knock to the head and nothing to do with his diet. And the GSD had to go to the vet for an abscess caused by a foreign body earlier this year, but again, nothing to do with his diet.

With six dogs we would have to take out a second mortgage to feed the ridiculously priced food from the vet. They get a lot of raw human grade food; chicken, beef, fish and roo, ocassionally a bit of human grade offal. The scraps from our plate are usually pretty minimal, just a taste. There is never anything left on hubby's plate :laugh: , I can never finish a meal (eyes bigger than my belly) so they get my leftovers - between six dogs it is usually only a mouthful.

The milk formula is just to soften the dry food (the adult dogs don't get it), and make sure they're getting a good balance of nutrients. They get half a baby's bottle between them in the morning with the kibble. They won't get this forever, but IMO it gives a good start.

Just a suggestion, that's all. The diet your dogs are on may not be suitable for this particular pup....why else would he not be thriving Growing dogs, especially large breed ones need a good diet that supplies them with all their nutritional needs, other wise, they don't grow properly or end up with problems like hip dysplasia. When feeding scraps off your plate do you make sure your dogs never get fed things like onion & other human foods known to be dangerous to dogs health. Onion can kill, either slowly or quickly. You don't need to get the expensive foods from the vet for your dogs & canned food is almost all water. Bonnie which you can get from the produce stores is a good food for most dogs if you can't afford something a little better. Just out of interest, what kibble is this particular pup getting & how much of it makes up his diet. I am just trying to help...you said your pup is not thriving & I suggested it is probably his diet.

Hi Sheena,

I truly appreciate your ideas and opinions, sorry if my post came off sounding not quite right, absolutely wasn't intended, I wasn't having a go. :)

I am very careful not to feed them dangerous foods; onions, grapes, raisins, choccie, etc.

Thanks for the Bonnie tip, I will check out the produce stores, we have quite a few around us and I need to get some more chook food over the next couple of days. I was chatting to my neighbour this morning and she gets dog/cat food delivered, says it is much cheaper than pet stores and better quality, so she is going to send the delivery chap down to me to find out about it.

Kibble is currently science diet; both pups came with a free sack of it :laugh: But I won't be able to afford to keep that up once these sacks are finished - I would be grateful for a recommendation that isn't going to cost me my next month's mortgage payments.

[erinonthefarm]

I explained my concerns about the hip/elbow dysplasia with regards to over feeding/too fast growing as a pup possibly being a contributing factor, but he seemed to just brush that off, told me you couldn't overfeed a large breed puppy in the first year - however this is not what all my reading about hip dysplasia indicates

The vet did check everything else out and said he was as strong as an ox, and he certainly acts and looks like a healthy pup, apart from being thin. Wish I had that dog's metabolism! :D

IMO Vets don't learn much about nutrition apart from what dog food reps give them at Uni. If you think he is healthy enough otherwise don't worry about it ! Being lean is a good thing, especially at that age large breeds should not be rolling fat anyway. He might just be in the lanky phase and he'll become more solid when he gets older. My Dobe is 18 months and is just starting to put on muscle mass now that he is not getting any taller.

I have to say the diet does sound like it could be improved upon, I reakon cut out the pet loaf and milk and spend that money on raw meaty bones instead, it will keep his teeth clean and his brain occupied (and out of trouble) for a while.

How is spuds poos? Does he ever have runny ones?

[ash1]

I explained my concerns about the hip/elbow dysplasia with regards to over feeding/too fast growing as a pup possibly being a contributing factor, but he seemed to just brush that off, told me you couldn't overfeed a large breed puppy in the first year - however this is not what all my reading about hip dysplasia indicates

The vet did check everything else out and said he was as strong as an ox, and he certainly acts and looks like a healthy pup, apart from being thin. Wish I had that dog's metabolism! :D

IMO Vets don't learn much about nutrition apart from what dog food reps give them at Uni. If you think he is healthy enough otherwise don't worry about it ! Being lean is a good thing, especially at that age large breeds should not be rolling fat anyway. He might just be in the lanky phase and he'll become more solid when he gets older. My Dobe is 18 months and is just starting to put on muscle mass now that he is not getting any taller.

I have to say the diet does sound like it could be improved upon, I reakon cut out the pet loaf and milk and spend that money on raw meaty bones instead, it will keep his teeth clean and his brain occupied (and out of trouble) for a while.

How is spuds poos? Does he ever have runny ones?

Hi Erin,

Spuddy seems super healthy in all other respects, he has plenty of energy for a pup, his coat is nice and glossy, his eyes bright. Just thin. They do get a lot of raw meaty bones, as it keeps them all out of trouble and out from under my feet (otherwise I constantly have a mini entourage following me wherever I go), they get bones (either beef soup bones, chicken/turkey necks/legs) on average every 2-3 days. I don't like to give them to them any more often than that as I find their poos become very hard.

Spud's poos are very good looking as far as poos go :laugh: Neither of the pups have had sloppy poos, they're a good colour and firm.