Should We Disclose A Foster Dogs Past When Being Rehomed?.

[yellowgirl]

I'm confused. In just one thread PR says they don't rescue or foster dogs themselves, but in another post someone says they have friends who foster for PR, and another lady she says she adopted her dog from PR.

I don't really understand why they're telling people to contact PR if they're interested in a dog, they've said (in the same thread) that many of the dogs don't have rescue and are encouraging people to adopt, so wouldn't it be easier for potential adopters to contact the pound directly?

There's lots of conflicting information in that one thread (several obvious deletions too).

I didn't see the other comments posted there (took me a while to work out that I needed to put the damn thing on Posts by Page, not Highlights *sigh*) but I want to add that the volunteers who are trying to save these dogs honestly believe that they're doing the right thing. People volunteer because they want to make a difference and that's what these volunteers think they are doing. When you're IN a rescue org it's very easy to believe that what you're doing is right and everyone else is wrong, and people will fight to the death for their group.

I've seen it in a large rescue group here, the volunteers are amazing, hardworking and doing everything they can to help the dogs. The problem is at the top of the chain, that's where the changes need to be made. Most of the time the volunteers have no idea of what's really going on, or even what's right or wrong in rescue. They're focused on the dogs and making a difference... that's it. And when things go wrong, it's the volunteers who run around like mad trying to make everything right. Not the dumbasses at the top, the volunteers. And as long as that keeps happening, nothing will change. I know of many volunteers who have been used and abused until they're able to see the reality of the situation, but the org couldn't care less if they leave, here are always more volunteers waiting in the wings to help 'save the dogs'.

The PR facebook page is run by volunteers, if you post there they will fight you, they 100% believe they're helping the dogs. That's the problem, 'these' types of rescues get good, kind hearted people to do their dirty work for them, meanwhile it's still rotten at the top, but the volunteers are bearing the brunt of everything that's wrong.

Just my thoughts on it all ...

[Malti]

I was wondering if it was worth asking the pounds they post for if they are happy with them or even aware of their practices.

The trouble is that they are not a rescue group so which governing body would they come under.

They are a rescue group, they have a 16D that they would be using to pull the dogs out under (or at least some), even if they 'facilitate' a person to get a dog from out of area, if that dog has come out under their 16D aren't they the rescue the person that adopts the dog turn to if there is a problem(the group pay for the vet work, the person pays the group money for the dog - that is rescue even if it is immoral).

The group is reportable to the DLG, the pound, the council area the dog came out of, and the ATO.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Malti

[shmoo]

I want to add that the volunteers who are trying to save these dogs honestly believe that they're doing the right thing.

I have been msging on facebook with some of their volunteers and they are genuinely nice and caring people. I feel so sorry that they are being manipulated and lied to.

[amp]

I'm confused. In just one thread PR says they don't rescue or foster dogs themselves, but in another post someone says they have friends who foster for PR, and another lady she says she adopted her dog from PR.

I don't really understand why they're telling people to contact PR if they're interested in a dog, they've said (in the same thread) that many of the dogs don't have rescue and are encouraging people to adopt, so wouldn't it be easier for potential adopters to contact the pound directly?

There's lots of conflicting information in that one thread (several obvious deletions too).

Whenever I see that I post please go to the pound directly & tonight even posted the link.....trouble is they either ignore your direct question or delete it & they are quite rude in commenting. There are always complaints that they do not reply when people have sent in applications.

This morning I asked in 2 areas would I get a receipt for my donation ...no response yet.

[shmoo]

Has any rescue group on here received a contact from PR regarding foster caring? Since they now claim they simply source foster carers and hand them onto other rescue groups.

[shmoo]

Whenever I see that I post please go to the pound directly & tonight even posted the link.....trouble is they either ignore your direct question or delete it & they are quite rude in commenting. There are always complaints that they do not reply when people have sent in applications.

This morning I asked in 2 areas would I get a receipt for my donation ...no response yet.

This is what makes it hard, even contacting them results in no response. So we are left standing here in a group scratching our heads trying to figure out what indeed is going on.

[Malti]

I'm confused. In just one thread PR says they don't rescue or foster dogs themselves, but in another post someone says they have friends who foster for PR, and another lady she says she adopted her dog from PR.

I don't really understand why they're telling people to contact PR if they're interested in a dog, they've said (in the same thread) that many of the dogs don't have rescue and are encouraging people to adopt, so wouldn't it be easier for potential adopters to contact the pound directly?

There's lots of conflicting information in that one thread (several obvious deletions too).

I didn't see the other comments posted there (took me a while to work out that I needed to put the damn thing on Posts by Page, not Highlights *sigh*) but I want to add that the volunteers who are trying to save these dogs honestly believe that they're doing the right thing. People volunteer because they want to make a difference and that's what these volunteers think they are doing. When you're IN a rescue org it's very easy to believe that what you're doing is right and everyone else is wrong, and people will fight to the death for their group.

I've seen it in a large rescue group here, the volunteers are amazing, hardworking and doing everything they can to help the dogs. The problem is at the top of the chain, that's where the changes need to be made. Most of the time the volunteers have no idea of what's really going on, or even what's right or wrong in rescue. They're focused on the dogs and making a difference... that's it. And when things go wrong, it's the volunteers who run around like mad trying to make everything right. Not the dumbasses at the top, the volunteers. And as long as that keeps happening, nothing will change. I know of many volunteers who have been used and abused until they're able to see the reality of the situation, but the org couldn't care less if they leave, here are always more volunteers waiting in the wings to help 'save the dogs'.

The PR facebook page is run by volunteers, if you post there they will fight you, they 100% believe they're helping the dogs. That's the problem, 'these' types of rescues get good, kind hearted people to do their dirty work for them, meanwhile it's still rotten at the top, but the volunteers are bearing the brunt of everything that's wrong.

Just my thoughts on it all ...

That is their usual tactic, I think it is to deflect blame, and remove themselves from the messes they get into.

They contradict themselves so often it isn't funny, and the ones responsible blame others and ignore any communication unless it is to abuse, deny, threaten, intimidate.

I believe there are a lot more people that have been caught up by their tactics but have been threatened and made feel isolated. I hope some of them see this and come forward.

They run by the theory if you delete something it never happened

[yellowgirl]

Now, hang on a minute! Wasn't the dog that was the catalyst for this thread fostered through PR, returned to PR, was then kenneled by PR, was assessed by PR, sent to another foster carer with PR and subsequently advertised for rehoming by PR?

[keetamouse]

First off...im very sorry to the dog owner and the little dog, no one should have to go through something like that

As to the attack. I am an investigator and the first thing I would ask is "who started the dog fight" Did any see the beginning of the fight"

That is very important. Do we know the bigger dog started it? I have investigated many incidents where a smaller dog started the fight and come off second best. That sort of evidence is important.

Yes, the rescue group should disclose all known history to any potential owners. As we know the general public tend to be on the naive side when it comes to animals.

could someone please PM me the name of this rescue group and I want to make sure they do not operate in my LGA

From what we know "there was no fight" I have been told it was a Staffy who killed a long haired Chihuahua approx 2-3 kilos, dogs do that, I had a foster dog (Jack Russell girl 2 years old) who killed one of my own dogs 2 years ago, a Maltese boy 12 years old, my boy did not start a fight, the Jack was dog agressive and killed my dog, it's as simple as that. A staffy and a Chihuahua is not a good mix.

I don't care who starts the fights, we are not talking about 2 blokes in a pub brawl here, we are talking about 2 dogs, they don't think like humans, if a dog attacks and kills another dog it should NEVER be rehomed at all, some people have said "well it is a nice dog in every other way so I will rehome it as an only dog" that is so irresponsible, how can you be sure that the dog will NEVER get near another dog in their life, it has to get out to be walked, it will come across other dogs on the walks, what if it gets out of the yard and kills another dog.

I have had to put a few smalls to sleep over the years because they were dog aggressive, I worked with them for a certain amount of time, some made it but some didn't, we in rescue cannot save them all, we have to remember that most of the dogs in the pounds (especially the country pounds) are there for a reason, country pounds are not your sweet, lovable, family dogs who have slept on their owners, kids beds, most of them are from places where they have been neglected, abused, left them to their own devices.

I would like to know if PR are getting the vet work done on the dogs that they are getting out of the pounds.

Can we stop calling them a rescue group as it really is an insult to the rest of us who put the animals before the $$$$$$$

Maree

CPR

[Malti]

Now, hang on a minute! Wasn't the dog that was the catalyst for this thread fostered through PR, returned to PR, was then kenneled by PR, was assessed by PR, sent to another foster carer with PR and subsequently advertised for rehoming by PR?

yeap, but another thing to throw in just to confuse things a bit more and make sure it doesn't seem like they are related back to PR is that people are now starting up rescue's on a social networking site, the people starting these 'rescues' are PR people in some way, some are in other states, some are in the same area. So someone may not even know they are really getting a dog through PR's......... hope this makes some sense

[JRT RESCUE]

I certainly have never had any offers of carers from them.

Had a call the other day from a lady that PR were looking for a dog for her and apparently I has rescued it from Hawkesbury the day before and she told me that she would send one of the people from PR to collect it.

Well you know what I said, she is under my care and you deal with me, wasn't happy, still insisted on sending that person around.

I know of one jack that was listed on their site that they were asking for donations to help save it when I actually had it in my care and let them know, will never know if any funds were collected for that jack, as haven't received any.

I know through the DLG you have to have all your carers listed, wonder if they do as there are plenty of them.

I believe that some of their adoptions are actually still at the pound and go straight from the pound to their new homes without the people meeting them, look at the situation with the bull dog type that was transported to Victoria and the wrong person collected it and as far as I know has never been seen since.

[Plan B]

From what we know "there was no fight" I have been told it was a Staffy

An actual Staffy (SBT) or the Staffy everyone labels any Staffy-ish dog of unknown breed(s)?

A staffy and a Chihuahua is not a good mix.

I don't see why not. I find the problems that arise are due to rescues not having temp tested individual dogs, not matching them properly to foster homes and resident dogs, and carers not taking the proper precautions.

A Staffy and a Chihuahua can absolutely be the perfect companions. It all comes down to the individual dogs and their owners.

I know that probably looks like nitpicking but those sorts of generalisations really irk me. And having a Staffy girl myself, who dotes on the foster puppies and looks after all foster dogs, big or small, it's something I just hate being thrown around.

[k9angel]

The whole thread was I believe. Don't worry I got a screen shot.

wish I thought of that. I get deleted or ignored.

I just saw this post "We still need to assist financially when dogs are fostered as rescue groups rely on donations too" &

"By the way, please dont stop sending in offers of fosters! Some rescues are still able to help if we provide a carer!"

Would that be right? Do they send money on? I doubt it.

Most rescues vet their foster carers and do home checks etc, so surely pound rounds can forward a persons name on, but it would be up to the rescue to do the hard yards of following it up.

I just cant believe peoples are putting money into these numpties accounts for being the middle man, using material and photographs already published by the pounds and then relying on the rescues to do the saves anyway. Where on earth does this money go? with over 8000 likes on facebook i'd say their bank account it sitting quite pretty and i'd question how much of it is spent on the dogs.

None of my questions were answered, in fact all were deleted when I asked this.

Speaking as an active rescuer, I cannot see why anyone would give money to a group such as this, if they do it's because they don't understand how things work quite obviously.

Not surprising that your questions are getting deleted but why should they be? Complete transparency when you are collecting money - for any cause - is what is required. All questions, no matter how awkward, should be answered, not deleted.

Something stinks.

I'll say...

The sad thing is there would be alot of people out there who want to help but cannot house or foster a dog themselves - so how else can they help? give $ ofcoarse. They don't know any better. These are the people PR are preying on.

They're using these deathrow dogs to put on the guilt trip to rake in funds which IMO is just sick.

I note the big red headlines on their facebook page tonight "CRISIS - save the dogs tonight". Do they do this before every pts?

Oh and I read this which made me sad,

I banked into your St George account $20 on Wednesday I wish it had a few more zeros but as I am an aged pensioner this is all I could afford, please put it towards saving/helping these beautiful babies, if you can't adopt or foster please give money to board them until they can find forever homes. Please God find them all loving forever homes where they will be cherished, AMEN!

I bet they wish she had a few more zeros too. These are the kinds of people they are scamming.

Another thing I noticed is that they are the contact if anyone is interested in adopting one of these dogs from the pound. What the?... Shouldn't they be referring interested parties to the pound direct? and what if a BYB breeder comes along.. most of these dogs are not even desexed. I saw a PB husky on there tonight... my heart just sunk.

[Malti]

I think the group need to get their story straight, on looking at their site it clearly states they have foster carers. One even stated a dog that went missing was microchipped to pound rounds. They really need to start figuring out what they are or are not, not just contradict themselves continuously.

They also state they put themselves between pounds and adoptions, but take no responsibility from that, but it is just to save people money.

This group of people are just beyond words, and preying on people who have good intentions and do not know what they are really contributing to is very sad.

Their financial claims of not covering a third of their costs seems a bit too much to believe as well.

When will it end

[Steve]

I've been following this thread with interest as many of the traits exhibited by the group in question could apply equally to an organisation in SA. I just came across this link which talks about how to find a responsible rescue and have shared it on facebook. I thought I'd post it here in case anyone else wanted to have a read and consider sharing it. http://paws4udogs.wo...nsible-rescues/

But from what I can gather PR are not a rescue group - I assume any of that article they would believe doesn't apply to them.

The aim is 100% get dogs out of pounds. It doesn't really matter to them,if the dog has problems, who gets it,where it goes or how it gets out as long as its not PTS and has a chance.

They offer money to help this happen, release costs, transport costs,vet costs etc to cut down on reasons why some people may not be able to do this.

Couple this with pounds which are not operating under regs or laws or a code of practice which allows them to do what PR is asking of them and you have a situation where dogs are going everywhere and the pounds and PR feel warm and snuggly that there are less dogs in pounds and more finding homes. What comes next is neither the pound's problem or PR. Whether the person taking the dog is suitable or already has 100 dogs, whether they have fencing or what ever isnt counted. Even better if they can get people to take em in temporarily to beat their PTS date - they dont care about the foster carer or the foster carers dog - the only aim is get the dog out of the pound.

Even without PR the same people could be getting the same dogs if they could afford it because its a basic flaw in the system which allows it to happen in NSW.

So because they are focused on only that one thing they would think you guys are mongrels because you didn't like them using your photos and descriptions and they wouldn't get what the problem is - after all they are getting dogs out of pounds.

So perhaps it would be in the dog's best interests and the ethical rescue group's best interests to work with them - take their money for dogs you feel are able to be re - homed allow them to help with finances for vetting, transport etc and do what needs to be done to find them homes ethically and using foster carers who have the necessary experience and skills. Perhaps we need to really promote ethical rescue groups and give a warning about simply taking a dog from the pound but that means a whole new bunch of fanatics will be staring us out.

We will be concentrating on showing the public what our rescue members do and why its good to go to them without knocking groups such as PR or pounds with rotten policies as much as we can because our concern is that we don't want people perceiving a danger across the board in taking on a rescue dog - but seriously someone has to say the way its being done does really put the dogs and people at greater risk than taking a dog through a rescue group who is making sure its all good to go. Hopefully showing what is a great way to take on a rescue dog and educating as much as we can we can limit negative impacts - but overall it makes ethical rescue have to work harder.

At the end of the day they couldn't do what they are doing unless the pounds were doing what they are doing and if anyone is going to be held accountable its going to be the pounds who release them to the people they do because all PR does is put them in touch with each other and pay some costs if they need them.To their mind They are not placing the dogs,the pounds are so none of this concerns them. I think.

So sooner or later inevitably as more things go wrong there will have to be state laws introduced or at least council policy which will in fact make it harder for the ethical rescues,and suitable dog owners to be able to get dogs out,or to get a 16D etc.

[Steve]

I think the group need to get their story straight, on looking at their site it clearly states they have foster carers. One even stated a dog that went missing was microchipped to pound rounds. They really need to start figuring out what they are or are not, not just contradict themselves continuously.

They also state they put themselves between pounds and adoptions, but take no responsibility from that, but it is just to save people money.

This group of people are just beyond words, and preying on people who have good intentions and do not know what they are really contributing to is very sad.

Their financial claims of not covering a third of their costs seems a bit too much to believe as well.

When will it end

Yes but I think they see foster carers as different to the way they are seen traditionally. For most a foster carer is attached to a group and works under their policies ,covered by their insurances etc - but these guys sort of see them as private contractors .So they have them working for them [ voluntarily ] but they dont really work for them they work for them selves. [voluntarily] Its different but legal.

[amp]

Ok, to chip in on a few posts here.

I spoke to Hawkesbury pound & the dogs there are quite cheap anyway.

"The cost reflects whether or not the dog is microchipped and lifetime registered – if it is it’s only $36.50, if not it can go up to a maximum of $229 depending on whether it is desexed, microchipped etc.

We don’t desex the dogs here, but offer you the opportunity to have the dog desexed at a discounted rate at local vets."

So how dare they tell people the donations go towards vet fees & releasing the dog.

They are NOT a rescue group, simply copy & paste pound pics, rarely with temp. info.

They ask you to fill in a foster/adopt form which is then just passed on.

I just do not get how they can do this. It has to be unethical.

The red banner was new last night.

I once saw someone say they had deposited $250 - I was aghast!

[Steve]

Ok, to chip in on a few posts here.

I spoke to Hawkesbury pound & the dogs there are quite cheap anyway.

"The cost reflects whether or not the dog is microchipped and lifetime registered – if it is it's only $36.50, if not it can go up to a maximum of $229 depending on whether it is desexed, microchipped etc.

We don't desex the dogs here, but offer you the opportunity to have the dog desexed at a discounted rate at local vets."

So how dare they tell people the donations go towards vet fees & releasing the dog.

They are NOT a rescue group, simply copy & paste pound pics, rarely with temp. info.

They ask you to fill in a foster/adopt form which is then just passed on.

I just do not get how they can do this. It has to be unethical.

The red banner was new last night.

I once saw someone say they had deposited $250 - I was aghast!

Ok but what if they are covering vet costs after the dog gets out - for example are they paying for the new owner to desex them? They also cover transportation costs etc too as far as I can see.

[tdierikx]

OK - if PR are using their 16D to get dogs out of pounds, aren't those animals chipped to them by said pounds? Then PR must report all animals released under that 16D to the DLG, right? And those reports must marry up to the reports from the pounds as to which animals were released under which 16D... yes?

Maybe if someone contacts the DLG about PR and convinces them that an audit is in order... ?

As for the fundraising and charity status thing, the ATO has quite strict reporting guidelines - especially if said charity is bringing in large sums of money. It ALL must be accounted for fully, and is also subject to arbitrary auditing. Maybe this group could be brought to their attention also...

The pounds aren't going to stop letting them get dogs out - it's more lucrative for any dog to leave their care rather than be euthed and then they incur disposal costs etc...

I hate Facebook with a passion - but anyone who knows how it works could always start up another group page maybe asking people to tell their PR horror stories - then spam the hell out of the PR pages with links to the horror story page... fight fire with fire I say! For sure the horror story page will soon fill up with stories from those left high and dry by PR, and you can then control what is posted there so the truth isn't deleted willy nilly... *grin*

T.

[amp]

Steve my understanding of the process is that the group that physically rescues/takes on the animal pays for all that themselves, from their own funds/donations. They also have a circle of fosters pre checked by themselves.

The rescue groups I follow have all vet work done prior to adopting.

Therefore when PR are NOT a rescue group but simply share/pass on the info where does the money go?

Since it seems easy to purchase an animal from Hawkesbury who then send you to a local vet for subsidised treatment why do PR want donations?

Of course they might be doing some donating to the rescue org that takes on the animal...I saw that in a recent post on fb that the money assists the end rescue but from comments here the rescue org does not get any of it.

Just seems so unethical to me & nearly sucked me in to donating a while back, thankfully I didn't.

I can't even get an answer from them as to whether or not I would get a tax invoice to claim my donation.

They are too closed up & get quite vitriolic in responses or usually delete any comment they do not like.