cannibalgoldfish Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I posted a thread a while back about some issues my boys were having. It was suggested that because the older dog (10) is getting on in years the younger (8) might be pushing his place and challenging him. Since then it has become apparent that is happening. So my question is what do I do now? It is normal for a younger dog to challenge the more dominant dog when he senses the older one is weakening. Do I, let it happen because that's nature? Do I continue to support the older dog as top dog or the younger? Right now this involves the younger boy starting to mount the older one ( I stop him) and the older one wont sleep near the younger one without growling (He now sleeps in the laundry and seems to really enjoy the peace and solitude) Most of the older dogs issuse occur at night because he is losing his sight and it makes him insecure. The younger dog is fine during the day, it's only in the evening these problems occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 if you can, please get a professional to come & help you .... Three days ago, a friend who has working sheepdogs lost his old retired boy . This old boy was killed by his son ..just hit maturity ....and apparently took the old boy's almost blind/deaf long hard (now, I know you're there..but what are you doing/saying/ ) stares as something else Very sad for the legend to go like that ..... and no, there were no direct recriminations on the young dog........but he is not the most popular at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannibalgoldfish Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Oh god. I hadn't even thought it would get that far. As it is I think 8 is old for an entire dog to start pushing his boundaries. (the younger dog is 8) All the problems seem to start late afternoon which seems to be when the older dog starts to stress. I hope it doesn't go that far So far it's just the younger one humbugging the elder and the elder making a whole heap of noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannibalgoldfish Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Ok, the next question is.. anyone know a good behaviourist in Tas/Launceston? (Rather than the crap I see on tv ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Definitely seek some assistance if you can. In the meantime, can you help the old dog feel a bit more secure by perhaps separating them in the evenings/night time? Baby gates and crates are great tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannibalgoldfish Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 In the meantime, can you help the old dog feel a bit more secure by perhaps separating them in the evenings/night time? Already do. He now sleeps in the laundry and seems to love it in there. Interestingly, the younger dog doesn't seem to mind. Normally he would be carrying on at being separated but now they both seem happier separated to sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash1 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Oh god. I hadn't even thought it would get that far. As it is I think 8 is old for an entire dog to start pushing his boundaries. (the younger dog is 8) All the problems seem to start late afternoon which seems to be when the older dog starts to stress. I hope it doesn't go that far So far it's just the younger one humbugging the elder and the elder making a whole heap of noise. Is it possible to get the 8yo desexed? Maybe this may make a difference? No idea if it would, just grasping at straws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Ok, the next question is.. anyone know a good behaviourist in Tas/Launceston? (Rather than the crap I see on tv ) I'm at a bit of a loss for Launceston, but we have some very good trainers and behaviourists in Hobart (PM me for details, I'll have to look them up during the week). It's not really my specialty (I do small classes for reactive, shy and aggressive dogs), but I do come up from time to time. With this sort of thing I'd really just be looking at good management and having the younger dog trained very reliably to go to a crate/mat/come to you. Sometimes you can train the younger dog not to react to age-related things the older dog does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannibalgoldfish Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 Annnd he bit me Several nights ago when my partner went outside to put the older dog in the laundry after he was grumbling, as soon as he touched the older dogs collar he launched at the younger dog. (I'm guessing it's like stories of dogs on leashes and confidence/security things at play?) Tonight the same thing happened. They were fed, seperately then Loki (older) started his usual grumbling at the younger dog (no food in sight). I went to put him in his " safe place" that is now the laundry. He was fine until I reached down to grasp his collar and he started growling at Wylie. Moment I touched him he lunged snapping at the other dog and snapped at me as well. Until I was there it was all noise, he only got aggressive when I touched him, and then it was directed at the other dog (who was several metres away) I will not have a dog that bites. I know there are obviously reasons for it, and I know what they are. (fear and losing his sight) but I cant have an aggressive dog, even if it's displaced aggression. Will be looking at help but I'm hoping someone has been through this before and has an idea? At the moment we separate in the evening because that's when the older dogs issues start. Poor little guys. They are fine during the day, it's just when it gets dark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandybrush Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 a agree with a behaviourist. or when the older dog starts to stress at night i would be keeping them separate, ie crate them one at a time and have alone time cuddles with each before bed, just wat i would do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandybrush Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 i really think the older dog thinks its the younger dog attacking him when you grab his collar and that is why he is snapping i would be removing the young dog first. talk to your older dog pat him so he knows you are there and gently grab his collar. if he continues to snap at you it could actually be a pain reaction. i would get him seen by a chiro. he might have a sore neck. if its not pain it could be he is sick. and i would put it down to the last case that he is becoming aggressive if you have assessed him in health and chiro and its neither Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) Annnd he bit me Several nights ago when my partner went outside to put the older dog in the laundry after he was grumbling, as soon as he touched the older dogs collar he launched at the younger dog. (I'm guessing it's like stories of dogs on leashes and confidence/security things at play?) Tonight the same thing happened. They were fed, seperately then Loki (older) started his usual grumbling at the younger dog (no food in sight). I went to put him in his " safe place" that is now the laundry. He was fine until I reached down to grasp his collar and he started growling at Wylie. Moment I touched him he lunged snapping at the other dog and snapped at me as well. Until I was there it was all noise, he only got aggressive when I touched him, and then it was directed at the other dog (who was several metres away) I will not have a dog that bites. I know there are obviously reasons for it, and I know what they are. (fear and losing his sight) but I cant have an aggressive dog, even if it's displaced aggression. Will be looking at help but I'm hoping someone has been through this before and has an idea? At the moment we separate in the evening because that's when the older dogs issues start. Poor little guys. They are fine during the day, it's just when it gets dark Step 1 - find a good trainer - contact Aidan Step 2 - separate your dogs BEFORE the older dog starts grumbling. You know it's going to happen - act earlier to prevent it. When you take a dog by the collar, several things may be happening. You could be seeing a pain reaction. You are also restricting your dog's ability to defend himself. Does he know its you? Do you talk to him or pat him before you do it? He may also be partially deaf and a startle reaction isn't off the cards. If you don't want an aggressive reaction then don't take your dog by the collar. Either CALL him to where you want him or clip a lead on. But you may need to confine the younger dog first. Personally if these dogs are together during the day, I'd not have a collar on either dog. This is an OLD dog. He's living a life with a fair bit of stress. When was the last time he saw a vet for a full check up? Personally I'd be thinking about separating these dogs pretty much permanently. Your old boy is living in a situation of permanent threat and you really want to avoid a big fight, especially if you aren't there all the time. As you've said, there will be a reason for his aggression. Until you get a professional in to help you, then avoid the behaviour that you know will provoke an aggressive response. Cut the old boy some slack. Edited April 3, 2012 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Your poor old dog .... I hope you get in touch with a professional ASAP. I'm not surprised he snapped ... he would have been very much on edge..and then to feel himself grabbed ..it's a defensive move...and NOT directed at you. If you don't want an aggressive reaction then don't take your dog by the collar. Either CALL him to where you want him or clip a lead on. But you may need to confine the younger dog first. Personally if these dogs are together during the day, I'd not have a collar on either dog. and I agree. Hope you can find some help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canine fun sports Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Annnd he bit me Several nights ago when my partner went outside to put the older dog in the laundry after he was grumbling, as soon as he touched the older dogs collar he launched at the younger dog. (I'm guessing it's like stories of dogs on leashes and confidence/security things at play?) Tonight the same thing happened. They were fed, seperately then Loki (older) started his usual grumbling at the younger dog (no food in sight). I went to put him in his " safe place" that is now the laundry. He was fine until I reached down to grasp his collar and he started growling at Wylie. Moment I touched him he lunged snapping at the other dog and snapped at me as well. Until I was there it was all noise, he only got aggressive when I touched him, and then it was directed at the other dog (who was several metres away) I will not have a dog that bites. I know there are obviously reasons for it, and I know what they are. (fear and losing his sight) but I cant have an aggressive dog, even if it's displaced aggression. Will be looking at help but I'm hoping someone has been through this before and has an idea? At the moment we separate in the evening because that's when the older dogs issues start. Poor little guys. They are fine during the day, it's just when it gets dark I would also suggest a vet check. This "grumbling" may not only be inscurity - the may be some choronic pain, eg arthritis, spondylosis involved here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skye GSD Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Totally agree with a vet check. This behaviour could be related to a brain tumour. In the meantime, I would be keeping both dogs separated at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheebs Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) Totally agree with a vet check. This behaviour could be related to a brain tumour. In the meantime, I would be keeping both dogs separated at all times. Second this. My Maggie (2.5 at the time) and Tess (11) never really liked each other but were happy enough to co-exist. Maggie started ganging up on Tess in a big way - we got Tess' brain tumour diagnosis about 2 months later and lost her the following month Edited April 4, 2012 by Pheebs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Totally agree with a vet check. This behaviour could be related to a brain tumour. In the meantime, I would be keeping both dogs separated at all times. Agree, the blindness could also be caused by something outside of the eye itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy's mum Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Agree with everything else. You could also talk to your vet about medication - something calming, maybe. And also think about those DAP diffusers (or collars). Some people swear by them for calming dogs in a household. MY GF had a lot of success with warring cats, with the cat version (Feliway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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