Chopping Up A Sentinel Chew

[LizT]

Today my 16 week old Cavalier got her vaccincation and my vet said it was time to start her on a heart worm program. I told her the other dogs were on Sentinel and she said that was fine to start her on and to just chop a small chew in half for her for now.

Just thought I'd mention it as there has been a number of posts on whether this was an acceptable practice or not. This is the second vet that has told me it's fine to do this. I buy the large breed size and chop it into four peices for years now. It all made en mass and chopped to size during production.

[RuralPug]

I felt quite comfortable doing the same with a Milbemax tablet last week. The tablet is for 5 - 25k dogs and I have a 6k puppy who is too big for the under 5k tablets.

The recommended minimum dose per kg for both active chemicals is on the pack and by chopping one tablet in half I was giving him double the minimum dose in both, quite sufficient IMO.

I really didn't want to give him four times the minimum which is what a whole tablet would have been.

EF typos

Edited March 28, 2012 by RuralPug

[Gretel]

My vet has told me the same thing :)

[Florise]

Absolutely. I have always done this after vet advice many years ago. Makes them half the cost.

[Pets1]

I would be careful about what information is posted on a forum.

Under APVMA guidelines, the Vet COULD be prosecuted for advising this.

(Especially if advised during a consult, i.e. getting vaccinated)

Now lets be realistic, we know the cutting up of various chews does happen, However, there are

risks involved, i.e. the dosage is not uniformly distributed in the chew (it is dosed as a complete

piece)

The official line from Novartis (and all other chew type manufacturers) is the product should not

be tampered with.

My line is, if it works, great, just be wary there are risks involved...

[stormie]

Yep, what Pets1 said. Novartis has always told us that the chews shouldn't be chopped as they cannot guarantee an even distribution of the active ingredient. Of course this could be a ploy to ensure people buy more of their product, but it's not something I would personally take the chance with.

[Pets1]

Bear in mind as well, for Sentinel Spectrum anyway, there are 3 Active ingredients

The ratios vary tremendously between the dog sizes

i.e.

Green Pack (4-11kg) (per chew)

* Milbemycin oxime 5.75 mg

* Lufenuron 115 mg

* Praziquantel 57 mg

Blue Pack (22-45kg) (per chew)

* Milbemycin oxime 23 mg

* Lufenuron 460 mg

* Praziquantel 228 mg

So there is no way to be sure you if are getting 50%, 25% or 75% of the dosage…

As per previous, I know the practice of cutting chews up happens, personally I would never recommend it, so

long as you are aware that you may be under or over dosing.

[dotdashdot]

Yep, I work in a pet store and if people mention to me that they're going to cut it up for smaller dogs, I always say

"I don't recommend that you do that, I can't stop you, but just so you know." because Novartis tell us that it shouldnt be done.

Im not sure I 100% beleive Novartis, but Im gonna cover my butt and never recommend people do that.

[Pets1]

Im not sure I 100% beleive Novartis

It really has nothing to do with believing Novartis (or any other manufacturer)

It comes down to common sense, the law of physics and several other factors.

You have a small chew, for arguments sake the size of a 5c piece

The ingredients as per advertised dosage's are blended with a suspension mix.

There is no way anybody can be sure of the dispensation of all ingredients once the chew is pressed into it's form.

There is a good chance there may be an even percentage of all ingredients throughout the chew, however it

could be 55% one side, 45% the other, maybe top heavy or bottom heavy.

It is like making meatballs, you add an onion to the mince, mix it up, you are happy that it is mixed well,

but no matter how hard you try you will find it impossible to have all the meatballs you make the same

ratio (meat to onion) unless each ball was made individually by weight and volume, even then the composition

within that ball will be different from half to half, or even quarters.

I hope that makes sense… (the more onions the better IMO)

[minimax]

Im not sure I 100% beleive Novartis

It really has nothing to do with believing Novartis (or any other manufacturer)

It comes down to common sense, the law of physics and several other factors.

I hope that makes sense… (the more onions the better IMO)

Agreed. For the sake of a few dollars, why risk it?

[Everythings Shiny]

I would be careful about what information is posted on a forum.

Under APVMA guidelines, the Vet COULD be prosecuted for advising this.

(Especially if advised during a consult, i.e. getting vaccinated)

Now lets be realistic, we know the cutting up of various chews does happen, However, there are

risks involved, i.e. the dosage is not uniformly distributed in the chew (it is dosed as a complete

piece)

The official line from Novartis (and all other chew type manufacturers) is the product should not

be tampered with.

My line is, if it works, great, just be wary there are risks involved...

Yep, what Pets1 said. Novartis has always told us that the chews shouldn't be chopped as they cannot guarantee an even distribution of the active ingredient. Of course this could be a ploy to ensure people buy more of their product, but it's not something I would personally take the chance with.

I wouldn't either. I've had two patients that have had reactions to splitting chew tablets. The drug isn't evenly distrubuted. I wouldn't risk it

[Erny]

I didn't think you needed to begin heart worm medication until a dog was 6 months old? I queried this with a Vet who was encouraging me to administer treatment when my boy was a real youngster but when I queried, he agreed it didn't matter to do it until the pup was 6mo.

Having said that, I don't medicate for heart worm where I live. I do continue to ask Vets in and around the vicinity about incidents of heart worm and so far there haven't been any. I also keep a note of our over night temperatures.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Erny

[moosepup]

What others have said, I just buy chews appropriate for their weight, that way I know I'm not over or under dosing by chopping it up.

[LizT]

I didn't think you needed to begin heart worm medication until a dog was 6 months old? I queried this with a Vet who was encouraging me to administer treatment when my boy was a real youngster but when I queried, he agreed it didn't matter to do it until the pup was 6mo.

Having said that, I don't medicate for heart worm where I live. I do continue to ask Vets in and around the vicinity about incidents of heart worm and so far there haven't been any. I also keep a note of our over night temperatures.

I have to admit I'm not overly concerned about the heartworm protection factor as I'm told it isn't a problem in this area either. My girls live indoors and I doubt a mozzie would be able to penetrate their coat! My GSD lives outdoors and I'm pretty darn sure a mozzie would have a hard time biting him too!

Our poor horses suffer with them though, they have no trouble getting into their summer coats. I'm sure this would be the case with short coated dogs such as my friends Greyhounds.

[LizT]

Im not sure I 100% beleive Novartis

It really has nothing to do with believing Novartis (or any other manufacturer)

It comes down to common sense, the law of physics and several other factors.

You have a small chew, for arguments sake the size of a 5c piece

The ingredients as per advertised dosage's are blended with a suspension mix.

There is no way anybody can be sure of the dispensation of all ingredients once the chew is pressed into it's form.

There is a good chance there may be an even percentage of all ingredients throughout the chew, however it

could be 55% one side, 45% the other, maybe top heavy or bottom heavy.

It is like making meatballs, you add an onion to the mince, mix it up, you are happy that it is mixed well,

but no matter how hard you try you will find it impossible to have all the meatballs you make the same

ratio (meat to onion) unless each ball was made individually by weight and volume, even then the composition

within that ball will be different from half to half, or even quarters.

I hope that makes sense… (the more onions the better IMO)

I doubt these "meatballs" are made individually though... ;) anything that is in production for large volume is made in a vatt and the mixture is then dispursed into it's mould or shape for cutting etc.

[LizT]

Bear in mind as well, for Sentinel Spectrum anyway, there are 3 Active ingredients

The ratios vary tremendously between the dog sizes

i.e.

Green Pack (4-11kg) (per chew)

* Milbemycin oxime 5.75 mg

* Lufenuron 115 mg

* Praziquantel 57 mg

Blue Pack (22-45kg) (per chew)

* Milbemycin oxime 23 mg

* Lufenuron 460 mg

* Praziquantel 228 mg

So there is no way to be sure you if are getting 50%, 25% or 75% of the dosage…

As per previous, I know the practice of cutting chews up happens, personally I would never recommend it, so

long as you are aware that you may be under or over dosing.

The maths is pretty simple.

Small dogs contain

5.75 mg Milbemycin oxime,

115mg lufenruron

57 mg praziquantel

Large Dog contains

23 mg Milb. ox.

460mg Luf.

228 mg Praz.

One large divided into four pieces for four Cavs. One whole for the GSD. You do need a good eye and a steady hand. :)

As to under or over dosing, as with most animal worming products there is a huge margin of safety re dosing in both areas (over and under).

I mean have you ever given a cat or horse a syringe of wormer? You end up with more spat out than down the throat.

That's what I love about these 'tasty' meat chews for dogs. Pity my cats thumbed their noses at the cat version.

Anyway, I'm not necessarily "recommending" anyone do as I do, I'm simple stating that once again, as per years ago, I have been told, by yet another Animal Health Care Professional, that it's fine to do.

Edited March 29, 2012 by LizT

[Pets1]

I doubt these "meatballs" are made individually though... ;) anything that is in production for large volume is made in a vatt and the mixture is then dispursed into it's mould or shape for cutting etc.

Having seen part of the manufacturing process (on video) they, along with most pharmaceuticals are made

individually. (unless it is single ingredient, or liquid based, i.e. topicals)

It is similar to an injection moulding process, as they have to be sure the correct dosage is allocated to each chew.

Obviously very hi-tech and production line like… i.e. the mould has each of the 3 ingredients filled separately then the

beef flavoured suspension mix is added.

No cutting or shaping is required

I will try and get a copy of the video (or link) or photos and share if it is allowable

[dotdashdot]

Im not sure I 100% beleive Novartis

It really has nothing to do with believing Novartis (or any other manufacturer)

It comes down to common sense, the law of physics and several other factors.

You have a small chew, for arguments sake the size of a 5c piece

The ingredients as per advertised dosage's are blended with a suspension mix.

There is no way anybody can be sure of the dispensation of all ingredients once the chew is pressed into it's form.

There is a good chance there may be an even percentage of all ingredients throughout the chew, however it

could be 55% one side, 45% the other, maybe top heavy or bottom heavy.

It is like making meatballs, you add an onion to the mince, mix it up, you are happy that it is mixed well,

but no matter how hard you try you will find it impossible to have all the meatballs you make the same

ratio (meat to onion) unless each ball was made individually by weight and volume, even then the composition

within that ball will be different from half to half, or even quarters.

I hope that makes sense… (the more onions the better IMO)

I totally agree with you, this is what I tell my customers! I will NEVER risk it with my dog. The amount you save in chopping up a larger dosed chew v.s the potential risk and vet bill is not worth it.

When I tell customers that they can't guarantee that they'll get an even 50:50 blend, I'll get snorted at, or shut down, or ignored. But I persist with each different customer.

As I said, I might not believe the companies 100% (just some things some companies say rub me the wrong way, not Novartis btw) but I do place a lot of faith in what they tell us.

I'd like to think I have good common sense too :) Even if that gets rewarded with scorn most of the time.

[LizT]

I doubt these "meatballs" are made individually though... ;) anything that is in production for large volume is made in a vatt and the mixture is then dispursed into it's mould or shape for cutting etc.

Having seen part of the manufacturing process (on video) they, along with most pharmaceuticals are made

individually. (unless it is single ingredient, or liquid based, i.e. topicals)

It is similar to an injection moulding process, as they have to be sure the correct dosage is allocated to each chew.

Obviously very hi-tech and production line like… i.e. the mould has each of the 3 ingredients filled separately then the

beef flavoured suspension mix is added.

No cutting or shaping is required

I will try and get a copy of the video (or link) or photos and share if it is allowable

Okay, ta.

[Erny]

I have to admit I'm not overly concerned about the heartworm protection factor as I'm told it isn't a problem in this area either. My girls live indoors and I doubt a mozzie would be able to penetrate their coat! My GSD lives outdoors and I'm pretty darn sure a mozzie would have a hard time biting him too!

Our poor horses suffer with them though, they have no trouble getting into their summer coats. I'm sure this would be the case with short coated dogs such as my friends Greyhounds.

It's not just about there being mozzies, it's about the conditions being right for the heart worm to develop to infectious stage.