Issue With New Toy Poodle

[HugoDoogoEbblePebble]

Hey guys!I'm new to the forum and would like to first say hellllo! But secondly I'd like to ask for some advice!I recently came into the ownership of an almost 2 year old toy poodle who I have renamed Ebony (was formally 'Mouse'). She is a a gorgeous dog although she has definitely come with some baggage and I was wondering if I could get a bit of advice.Firstly, we got her from a breeder who was apparently getting rid of her as she had never come into season and the intention was that she would be used for breeding. We later found out that this was quite not the same story but I'd rather not post it on here (PM for further details) however this dog has:

a) Never previously been outside before we bought her (we didn't even think she had touched grass as she didn't know what to do when I first put her on it outside)

b) NOT been toilet trained (only wanted to go on carpet or concrete) however we are successfully working towards this

c) no prior obedience training (although she is SMASHING it at dog training. In 3 weeks we've picked up sit, stay, come, crawl, roll over, stand and beg)

d) anxiety issues around people and does not associate with other dogs despite the fact she was quite possibly kept with up to 30 dogs at one time. Also runs under tables and chairs if she can to 'hide'

e) never eaten dry food (only wanted soft meats and refused to eat dry food and didn't know how to chew it

So as you can see, we are working towards fixing alot of these issues however there is one I am not sure how to fix.I am trying to get her used to being outside while I am at University for the day or half a day with our 8 year old labrador (he's a sweetie, Ebony has bailed him up a few times), however she is showing signs of severe anxiety and will spend hours waiting at the door. And when I go check up on her she will almost have a near-panic attack and do alot of licking, nipping and scratching as she tries to jump up.I've owned big dogs in the past but am not too experienced with the smaller breeds (although I am an experienced dog owner, not new to the game!).

However this problem has stumped me.So DogsOnline members, what is the best way to address this issue and am I doing the right thing by leaving her outside for certain times of the day and 'getting her used to this'?

As for the anxiety around new people and disassociation with other dogs, will she eventually 'come out of her shell' and start to play? Or could that just be her personality?Cheers guys and thanks for any advice!From Ezza :)

[megan_]

Hi Hugo,

I have a dog that was used as a breeding bitch on a puppy farm. She was similar to your girl, but more extreme in her anxiety (she wouldn't come anywhere near me for a good month).

What I eventually did - and what I wish I had done MUCH sooner - was see a recommended, qualified behaviourist (not someone who called themselves a dog whisperer etc).

Dogs cope with fear in different ways. For the first year, my girl was meak and mild and would avoid conflict. She was such a sweetie, I never dreamed that she'd get aggressive. I worked on building her confidence and I felt very sorry for her. Then one day, when I had visitors over, she tried to go for a child. Before anyone assumes that the child did something, he didn't. I was always physically with her, only 1 - 2m away. He didn't move. He must have looked at her of something, but she deemed it a threat. I had pushed her to far, she was uncomfortable and she learnt that aggression = keeps scarey people away. Once a dog has learnt that lesson it is very hard to unteach it.

There are plently of things that you can do to build her confidence up and give her good coping strategies for when she is scared (eg "Look at That" game). Most importantly, she needs to feel that there is always an out if the pressure gets too much, and that you'll take care of anything scarey. It is very tempting to try and put them in situations where they'll "make friends" or "learn that people are nice". However, they can learn that when they behave they get put into more scarey situations, when they lash out the scarey people go away. It is important to take things slowly and for her to learn that behaviour = I can cope and I don't get pressured to accept people/dogs that I'm not ready to accept.

This is why I suggest seeking professional help now, but not from someone in the local paper etc, but someone who comes with qualifications and a track record of rehabilitating dogs. If you let us know where you live (general region, not your address :)) people might have recommendations.

The cost can be a bit steep, but trust me, it is much cheaper dealing with potential problems, that dealing with the results of getting this wrong. Three years later, I'm still trying.

[Guest lavendergirl]

Hi Hugo

Good for you giving this little girl another chance - she looks gorgeous. I agree with Megan on this one about consulting a behaviourist because her wide range of problems would probably respond best to a structured program that will address the problem as a whole rather than trying to address each issue separately. Do some research though and have a good talk to the behaviourists before engaging them - you want someone who is very experienced with rescue dogs. I am sure you are aware that it will take quite some time to make any progress but there is light at the end of the tunnel :) Good luck and hope things improve.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I can recommend a couple of people in Sydney that could help. I've also had ex breeding dogs here and am happy to help you with some suggestions on the toilet training etc.

If you want to pm me, I will send you my phone no.

[Charjas]

Sounds like my Jasper. He lays in the grass when we go for walks and now rolls in it I think he came from a place with concrete. Wasn't house trained. Poor diet. Very timid around any noises. Kept watching the tv and barking at certain sounds. Didn't like staying outside on balcony but I do leave him for short times and gradually increase time. Charlie ,my 3 year old toy poodle will sit on balcony. But jasper likes to be curledp a my feet. Jasper nips me and charlie a lot too You just have to go slowly with whatever you want to introduce. Does she have a crate?

Edited March 19, 2012 by Charjas

[Alkhe]

Hi Hugo (Ezza?)

This sounds so so similar to my Toy Poodle when I got her a year ago, except mine was from a breeder who treated her very well in that she loved her dearly etc :)

I agree with others who have suggested consulting a behaviourist for her separation anxiety issues, however I just want to let you know that there's light at the end of the tunnel!

When I got Maggie, she had not been socialised with dogs other than other Toy Poodles, and had basically been kept in the house (though she had 2 litters). She was toilet trained, but didn’t have any obedience training and hadn’t been walked much outside the house, or at parks etc. If at all. She had no lead training and was scared of having a collar around her neck, let alone a lead too. I started with a puppia harness – though she is now a dream, walking on the lead with a normal collar, and we no longer use the harness.

I basically started again from scratch with her, as it seems you have. But Maggie was so, so so timid that if I’d taken her to obedience training that soon she would’ve had a heart attack. She was scared of everything, and despite people telling me she’d come out of her shell, I just assumed that she was a very timid dog and would always be that way. She was TERRIFIED of other dogs (except little poodles, and small fluffy dogs, which she was just very scared of) and a few times actually weed or poo’d in fright when they came near her. She had no idea about playing or that other dogs weren’t trying to kill her, everything was a threat and she was just constantly afraid.

A year later, I have to pinch myself sometimes to remind myself that she is the same dog. We did go to obedience for a little while and like your Ebony, she was a really fast learner and did great. She is still a very calm and fairly timid dog, but we go to an off leash park every day and she has her little dog friends that she runs up to greet and has great doggy social skills with strange dogs too.

She will never be a dog-oriented dog, and is much more people-focussed. But as opposed to being scared of everyone and everything, she will approach people at the park all the time (especially women!) and is only scared of tradies now :lol:. She sometimes plays with dogs, though never full on rough play, just chasing etc. And people always comment on how far she has come. She’s like a normal, well socialised dog now- you wouldn’t know that she was such a timid little shy thing from looking at her.

Stick around the forum- this place is a goldmine of information. Good luck with Ebony, these are just little hurdles and I'm sure that in a few months you will all be fine. :)

[HugoDoogoEbblePebble]

Hey all! (It's Ezza, hugo is the name of my labrador xD)

The breeder did say she and the other dogs were crate trained, but we don't know how many other dogs were with her at the time.

I'd ask the breeder more questions however their email address has been de-activated and they're not replying to the website so who knows...

This information is all really useful and I might just look into getting a behavioralist (sounds like they help LOTS)

I had her out today while I was gone for 4 hours and according to my mum she spent the majority of the time hiding in dark places (not in her outdoor bed). BUT - when I put her out again when I got home she seemed a little bit more adventurous? as opposed to bolting straight back through the door and into the house.

so perhaps this is an improvement?

She is also vocally crying now whereas before she was silent and very withdrawn, so this might or might not be a good thing... I am reluctant to go get her as she might perceive this as me going to get her every time she cries?

[redangel]

I would be training her to be left in a crate as it seems like she may have been used to this. Reason being is that I once purchased a toy poodle from a kennel that ran up to thirty dogs together and like your dog she was very freaked out when left to a big wide house all alone. I discovered this when on return from her maiden alone time I was confronted with diarrhea right through my house: the poor thing was terrified. By crate training I gave her a restricted space to be in and in some way it was her cave and gave her security. I also had to get her used to being left alone, first short periods building up to longer ones, ie 10 minutes to start with.

I personally dont think leaving her outdoors is a wise thing, too many variable factors and noises. If she is really frightened and gets out of the yard she will most certainly end up perished. As she has been house raised is there a reason you want her to be an outdoor dog? Most toy poodles I believe are generally house dwelling...you have taken her from the security of a large pack, she is basically unsocialised and timid and you have put further stress on her by expecting her to be an outside dog. If it is due to soiling, I recommend again to consider crating her to develop some toileting training.

Gradually with socialization, training and the confidence she develops she will come out of her shell a bit more. I agree a dog behaviorist is well worth pursuing here.

[megan_]

But a dog shouldn't be locked in a crate when you're out if you work fulltime :). Can you leave a crate (covered) with an open door outside so she has a little cave to hide in if she wants to?

[Red Fox]

But a dog shouldn't be locked in a crate when you're out if you work fulltime :). Can you leave a crate (covered) with an open door outside so she has a little cave to hide in if she wants to?

There's always the option of a crate attached to a small pen, either indoors or outside.

[Guest lavendergirl]

Hey all! (It's Ezza, hugo is the name of my labrador xD)

The breeder did say she and the other dogs were crate trained, but we don't know how many other dogs were with her at the time.

I'd ask the breeder more questions however their email address has been de-activated and they're not replying to the website so who knows...

This information is all really useful and I might just look into getting a behavioralist (sounds like they help LOTS)

I had her out today while I was gone for 4 hours and according to my mum she spent the majority of the time hiding in dark places (not in her outdoor bed). BUT - when I put her out again when I got home she seemed a little bit more adventurous? as opposed to bolting straight back through the door and into the house.

so perhaps this is an improvement?

She is also vocally crying now whereas before she was silent and very withdrawn, so this might or might not be a good thing... I am reluctant to go get her as she might perceive this as me going to get her every time she cries?

If she is "crying" because of anxiety it may not be the best thing to ignore her - that is where a good experienced behaviourist should be able to advise you.

[redangel]

May I also add there is a poodle thread here on DOL here be nice to see you pop by :) plenty of poodle owners with much experience there.

[ChristineX]

Hi Ezza, welcome to DOL.

I know where you are coming from, my Irish Terrie Duke had a background similar to that.

I'd suggest getting a crate - you probably don't even need to shut the door, the crate itself would be comforting if she has been crate trained.

Also, getting a good behaviouralist in - if you're in NSW, I think I'd recommend Steve Courtney, k9-Pro. He does have a website, as well as a list of behaviouralists/trainers of good repute, just in case any of them are closer to you. Without the help of ours, I think I'd still be stuck trying to handle a dog with pure 100% hysteria everytime he went outside. It's not much fun for anyone!

By the way, she looks adorable!